Official Fire Sean Marks thread

[Hello Brooklyn]

The Harden stuff is getting silly.

I said for a while we made a mistake trading Harden.

But now I'm looking more and more wrong.

Harden is not just in decline. He is a shell of himself. Not even close to the player he was even last year.

As bad as he looked with us, he looks even worse in Philly.

The Celtics would have destroyed us with Harden. And the he definitely leave in FA to Philly.

Jury is still out on Simmons. But if we can just play like he did last year, with Curry and the picks. It looks like we would be big winners.

The 200 million contract will look insane immediately.

This is not accurate. You can project that the Celtics would have destroyed us with Harden, but they did destroy us without Harden while Curry and Drummond were both useless in the series.

How he is playing in Philadelphia right now is completely irrelevant to what his value was to the Nets this season. The Nets lacked perimeter size and playmaking against Boston. Even in his very diminished state, Harden is still a very strong 6'5 guard and is still an elite playmaker.

The smarter move would have been to hold on to Harden, play things out, and if things didn't work out (which they likely would not have), explore a sign and trade in the offseason. Simmons still would have been there and Morey still would have been drooling to get Harden.

Saying Curry was useless is just a lie.

Curry was awesome in the series. And was critical in putting up points when KD/Kyrie were being locked up. Harden can't do **** on offense with Maxey and Embiid playing well.

Drummond was just a throw in. So who cares about him.

What the Nets lacked in the series was defense. Harden would be a worse defender than Brown or even Curry. He can't move anymore.

He would have been targeted relentless by the Celtics all series. And provided little on offense besides playmaking.

This is again ignoring the fact that Harden was openly quitting and ruining the lockeroom.

There is no guarantee we get the sign and trade in the off season at all when Philly could have cleared the cap space.

The two first round picks would also not be included which were critical.

Bottom line: Harden is terrible and he would not have saved this disaster team at all.

Any other conclusion is delusional.

[gigantes]

The Harden stuff is getting silly.

I said for a while we made a mistake trading Harden.

But now I'm looking more and more wrong.

Harden is not just in decline. He is a shell of himself. Not even close to the player he was even last year.

As bad as he looked with us, he looks even worse in Philly.

The Celtics would have destroyed us with Harden. And the he definitely leave in FA to Philly.

Jury is still out on Simmons. But if we can just play like he did last year, with Curry and the picks. It looks like we would be big winners.

The 200 million contract will look insane immediately.

This is not accurate. You can project that the Celtics would have destroyed us with Harden, but they did destroy us without Harden while Curry and Drummond were both useless in the series.

How he is playing in Philadelphia right now is completely irrelevant to what his value was to the Nets this season. The Nets lacked perimeter size and playmaking against Boston. Even in his very diminished state, Harden is still a very strong 6'5 guard and is still an elite playmaker.

The smarter move would have been to hold on to Harden, play things out, and if things didn't work out (which they likely would not have), explore a sign and trade in the offseason. Simmons still would have been there and Morey still would have been drooling to get Harden.

You make some solid points, but you're still whiffing on the big picture.

KI & KD are certainly above-average runners of an offense, but they're not true points (either guard or forward), and IMO Harden showed us without a doubt that the Nets need a real PG to achieve at the highest level.

What you're skimming past though is that Beard had completely checked out on the Nets, and that hoping that he would have turned things around for Kyrie's return is kinda missing the whole point of how players do when they check out on a team.

Yes, I've been slamming Marks hard lately, but IMO there was a real point in the Harden-Sixers trade at the time. It's that we got a working replacement for Joe (sort of), an above-average C that could rotate with Clax per situation, and something of a dark horse badass that could have worked out surprisingly well here, if he'd got healthy along the timeline the docs predicted.

We also got two #1 picks from Philly, which ain't completely-spoiled cheesesteak.

By comparison, what you're suggesting?
It's being awkwardly stuck in the offseason, trying to offer up a S&T player, swiftly declining, who'd also checked-out on his last two teams.

Sure, Morey probably would have taken him, but the Nets almost certainly would have gotten far less. Harden's value only would have been tanked that much further around the league.

[Paradise]

I’d love to jump harder into this conversation but I’m on my annual vacation. I’m just happy next season, I’d be able to take my soon to be daughter to games once she’s born. Another Nets fan is on the way, folks.

In terms of Marks, I think the idea of even thinking of firing him is so ridiculously premature. That’s like Riley firing Spo because Lebron left after wasting assets.

At the end of the day, his true judgement will be how we rebound from this unexpected season. It’s not his fault Kyrie went AWOL. It’s not his fault that Harden showed he’s a complete declining delusional diva who can’t even lead the Sixers without Embiid or Joe Harris needing TWO surgeries, Ben Simmons needing back surgery.

Every signing he’s made to clean up or plug holes have worked out fairly well and I’d love to re-sign Dragic.

HOWEVER….What happens after the Nash hire and Harden gamble and now finally the Simmons gamble will finally start to put him on the clock.

We need some changes in the coaching staff department, we need some serious changes on roster construction. Enough with “high character” guys who “switch”. Time to get some guys who can play and play gritty ball.

Guys like Jeremi Grant, Justin Holiday, Holmes and Hartenstein are top of my list for rebuilding this supporting cast.

[Netaman]

Good post Paradise.

The things that have doomed this franchise in the playoffs the last 2 years were structural and unavoidable.

1. Kyrie Irving was unreliable. Shocking. Well, with no kyrie there's no KD. So even those of us that didn't turn into professional excuse makers when he signed would still sign him 100/100 times.

2. KD couldn't overcome his bad decisions off the court with his play on the court. the bad decisions include Kyrie, the Harden trade, Nash, and his desire to play 48 mpg. again there's no world where any of us don't accept the warts that come along with getting KD to take the keys to the franchise.

If we agree the only way to get KD was Kyrie, and we agree that all major decisions (kyrie, harden, nash) go through KD, what could anyone have done to not end the last 2 years the way they did?

last year was bad luck with injuries.
this year was KD playing his worst games as a professional when it mattered most and Kyrie/Harden creating the situation that led to that.

Yesterday Marks seemed to plant a flag that they need to get back to selfless players who want to be here and available. He essentially told KD to either get his friends in line if he wants them to also be coworkers or get new friends.

[MrDollarBills]

So we are all in agreement that trading Harden was the best thing to happen to us this season?

[Netaman]

So we are all in agreement that trading Harden was the best thing to happen to us this season?

yes. at least Simmons has youth on his side and the contract is 1/2 what Harden would have gotten w/ an extension. And recouped some other assets (Curry especially).

the fact that Nash is still here basically confirms that the disaster of this season was entirely at KD's feet. If he's not 100% behind Nash, he's already gone. the question going forward is if he's learned from that and if he'll let other people do their jobs? he needs to focus on his 35 mpg, his health, and keeping the players together. Let Marks handle the roster.

[Stone]

So we are all in agreement that trading Harden was the best thing to happen to us this season?

Sadly yes I agree. We did get to see some great games with Harden as a Net in particular that west cost road trip last season. But like Stat said, he didn't put a full effort into being in top shape. Whether or not he can get back to a top tier player remains to be seen. It is going to be interesting to see what happens with contract.

I hope he can turn things around, but I would not bet on it. The man does have a massive fan base, I remember seeing lots of Harden jerseys when he was Rocket playing in away games at the Clays.

[MrDollarBills]

So we are all in agreement that trading Harden was the best thing to happen to us this season?

yes. at least Simmons has youth on his side and the contract is 1/2 what Harden would have gotten w/ an extension. And recouped some other assets (Curry especially).

the fact that Nash is still here basically confirms that the disaster of this season was entirely at KD's feet. If he's not 100% behind Nash, he's already gone. the question going forward is if he's learned from that and if he'll let other people do their jobs? he needs to focus on his 35 mpg, his health, and keeping the players together. Let Marks handle the roster.

KD doesn't want to be coached. That's why he won't win here.

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

?t=YCmFVahMo9Ilh1mdqrYsTw&s=19

The Liberty's offense is designed to generate open looks based on the gravity of their best players. Someone send this clip to Steve Nash to remind him of what actual basketball is supposed to look like

[Netaman]

So we are all in agreement that trading Harden was the best thing to happen to us this season?

yes. at least Simmons has youth on his side and the contract is 1/2 what Harden would have gotten w/ an extension. And recouped some other assets (Curry especially).

the fact that Nash is still here basically confirms that the disaster of this season was entirely at KD's feet. If he's not 100% behind Nash, he's already gone. the question going forward is if he's learned from that and if he'll let other people do their jobs? he needs to focus on his 35 mpg, his health, and keeping the players together. Let Marks handle the roster.

KD doesn't want to be coached. That's why he won't win here.

maybe but i have to think this season and his own play vs. boston has a chance to scare him straight.Last year his series vs. MIL was on the level of peak Lebron and this year he got manhandled by Tatum and all the old golden state criticisms came back (which he no doubt saw). I have to think he wants to win one here pretty badly.

[NyCeEvO]

yes. at least Simmons has youth on his side and the contract is 1/2 what Harden would have gotten w/ an extension. And recouped some other assets (Curry especially).

the fact that Nash is still here basically confirms that the disaster of this season was entirely at KD's feet. If he's not 100% behind Nash, he's already gone. the question going forward is if he's learned from that and if he'll let other people do their jobs? he needs to focus on his 35 mpg, his health, and keeping the players together. Let Marks handle the roster.

KD doesn't want to be coached. That's why he won't win here.

maybe but i have to think this season and his own play vs. boston has a chance to scare him straight.Last year his series vs. MIL was on the level of peak Lebron and this year he got manhandled by Tatum and all the old golden state criticisms came back (which he no doubt saw). I have to think he wants to win one here pretty badly.

I disagree. He’s not desperate to win. After he won in Golden State, he has said on multiple occasions that the feeling of winning wasn’t as euphoric as he’d thought it would be (but I’m sure that’s in part due to how relatively easy it was for them to win with that squad). Since then, he talks about not chasing happiness because it’s a fleeting feeling, but enjoy being content.

In terms of mental health and personal outlook on life, I 100% agree with his take.

But as a fan of franchise hoping to win a title, these statements (coupled with his actions and thoughts over the course of the season) should make you realize that winning a title isn’t his #1 goal.

[MrDollarBills]

KD doesn't want to be coached. That's why he won't win here.

maybe but i have to think this season and his own play vs. boston has a chance to scare him straight.Last year his series vs. MIL was on the level of peak Lebron and this year he got manhandled by Tatum and all the old golden state criticisms came back (which he no doubt saw). I have to think he wants to win one here pretty badly.

I disagree. He’s not desperate to win. After he won in Golden State, he has said on multiple occasions that the feeling of winning wasn’t as euphoric as he’d thought it would be (but I’m sure that’s in part due to how relatively easy it was for them to win with that squad). Since then, he talks about not chasing happiness because it’s a fleeting feeling, but enjoy being content.

In terms of mental health and personal outlook on life, I 100% agree with his take.

But as a fan of franchise hoping to win a title, these statements (coupled with his actions and thoughts over the course of the season) should make you realize that winning a title isn’t his #1 goal.

Yeah, I mean I totally understand him. That's a really healthy position to take.

But as fans we aren't watching this crap basketball to be content, we want to see the team win.

I have no doubts that Durant would play til he drops just to win a game. We've seen it. But him not wanting to win at any cost has other negative impacts on this team, mainly Steve Nash and Kyrie being a complete space case and not feeling obligated to be 100% available.

[kamaze]

Joe Harris was out, Ben Simmons didn't want to play that's not the gm's fault. Marks is fine.

[Born_Ready]

Just wait until Marks does something extraordinary this off season and finds redemption within the disgruntled fan base. Everyone will love him again.

[GTR11]

Just wait until Marks does something extraordinary this off season and finds redemption within the disgruntled fan base. Everyone will love him again.

Funny part is, he got undermined by Tsai ( Lewis reports prove that ) and yet he gets all the blame. We quick on laughing at PingPong clowns yet doing same crap here. At least they admit Dolan is moron.

Who fired Kenny? I pretty sure wasn't Marks.
Who traded for and traded Harden? Definitely Marks wasn't the one making call.
Who hired Nash? I can guarantee that it wasn't Marks either.

These kind of things people here complain yet scared to say names. 3 of them became issue throughout the course of time.

[MrDollarBills]

I have yet to see Marks construct a good roster since KD signed here.

I think we've vastly overrated Marks. Vastly.

[GTR11]

I have yet to see Marks construct a good roster since KD signed here.

I think we've vastly overrated Marks. Vastly.

For that to happen he needs owner to cooperate. In order to build a team, you need coach/system -> star players need to buy in -> scouting/development team.

We doing OK with later, top of the issues still present. Until you fix that, nothing matters. Blaming and firing Marks won't solve issue. It'll just enable issues to keep dragging us from it.

Once again Steve Trash - Kyrie problem 1a/b however you want to mark. Until issues they bring fixed, we won't be successful.

I'm at the point where I believe just have to wait them out. Not sure which problem leaves first.

[GTR11]

My only issue with Sean is, he has no back bone. Pat, Pop, Zen etc will never allow such chaos to happen.

I'm ok with growing pains but I need to see results too. Time is ticking.

[MrDollarBills]

I have yet to see Marks construct a good roster since KD signed here.

I think we've vastly overrated Marks. Vastly.

For that to happen he needs owner to cooperate. In order to build a team, you need coach/system -> star players need to buy in -> scouting/development team.

We doing OK with later, top of the issues still present. Until you fix that, nothing matters. Blaming and firing Marks won't solve issue. It'll just enable issues to keep dragging us from it.

Once again Steve Trash - Kyrie problem 1a/b however you want to mark. Until issues they bring fixed, we won't be successful.

I'm at the point where I believe just have to wait them out. Not sure which problem leaves first.

True. Nash and Kyrie have been a disaster

[gigantes]

I have yet to see Marks construct a good roster since KD signed here.

I think we've vastly overrated Marks. Vastly.

You're not wrong, and this is why I said earlier that Marks seems to think that constructing a good team involves emulating Doctor Frankenstein, searching for enough (typically mismatched) parts to construct his title-winning monster.

It just rarely works that way in sports, and it almost seems like a slap in the fact to the Pop culture that he supposedly developed under.

At the same time, Marks deliberately chose to build around two guys who fled title-winning teams in order to play together. And they weren't even two-way players at that, like PG13 and Kawhi.

Say what you want about the Clips' stars' injuries, but right now they still look way ahead of us.