RealGM

Now, let's start by being fair-- "In Marks We Trust" was not just some idle boast we fans used to chant, right? No way, man-- the dude absolutely performed *miracles* in the early going, turning a team with arguably the skimpiest future in the NBA in to a surprisingly-likeable "Brookyln grit" fringe-playoff team that consistently surprised plenty of better teams. Not to mention, accumulated a pretty solid set of replacement picks to replace the flaming-disaster-fallout of the KG-Pierce trade fiasco.

Still, since most of us aren't very happy with him these days, what can we objectively say are his 'biggest gaffes" as GM/VP? Here's a couple ideas to get the ball rolling:

- Declaring 'Caris LeVert is a Nets prototype,' then trading one of our best assets at the time, Thad Young for him. This is not to be mistaken for you, I, or any Nets fans not liking Caris, but in retrospect, dude's history of injuries (going back to college) really have curtailed his career, as we keep seeing, sadly.

- Throwing out all those exorbitant offer sheets, for example to... who was it? KCP, TylerJ, Donatas M, Crabbe? (counterargument: the Nets payroll was nothing at the time, and it was arguably worth taking a major shot or two)

- Drafting Musa & Kurucs. I mean, yeah that certainly didn't look bad at the time, but it's beyond clear that good as Musa is, he was *way* too young to contribute at the NBA level, which is supposedly what good scouting is for. *zing*

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Okay, Nets fans-- what else we got besides the disastrous Steve Nash hiring and absurdly comical lag upon firing Nash...? Let's break it down.

Trading LeVert is a non issue because it saved his life from cancer.

Marks allowing himself to be bitched by Kyrie and KD along with Nash are his worst offenses. His lack of in season moves to shore up the roster also is a red check on his ledger.

I'm ready to move on from all of this.

Those big offers were mostly a non-issue aside from having to give picks to trade Crabbe for Prince. Supposedly Marks thought we had a shot at KD before he went to GSW. He needed to win some games to show we had a better situation awaiting KD the next time he became available.

Nothing wrong with trading Thad Young for the pick that became LeVert. We needed to become younger, cheaper and better. We especially needed perimeter help.

- Franchise Killer move - Giving up way too much for an aging, fat Harden (more than half a decade of unprotected picks and Jarrett Allen) and then giving up on Harden at the first sign of resistance. If you're going ALL IN like that for Harden then giving him up for nothing near what you gave up for him in less than a full season, that tells me you have no long term vision and your moves are totally reactionary. Imagine we just kept Jarrett and used a few protected picks to trade for some athletic wings, say Jerami Grant and Wiggins, we would be in a much stronger position now.

- OK now you've traded for Harden but you fail to emphasize enough size, athleticism and toughness in our signing of role players. We've either gone for one dimensional pure shooters or older guys way past their prime. Going into last season with contender status and putting the role players we had around the big 3 (couple of washed up bigs in Blake and LMA, and carrying 4 rookie projects on the roster) was criminal.

- Draft record after hitting on Jarrett Allen hasn't been great. Clax was a good pick but I don't think any of our other picks have outperformed their draft position.

- Coaching situation, hiring Nash in the first place, letting Udoka go, not retaining MDA when you had Harden on the roster, not firing Nash sooner.

Marks has been pretty poor for a pretty long time. The only reason why we're not the biggest joke in the league right now is because the boss had to personally step in and make a deal under the table with KD.

What draft record post Allen? We've traded most picks away on or before draft nights to add vets. The one that sticks out as poor was the Shamet trade if it was in fact purely a first for Shamet and not entwined as part of the Brown trade as originally reported.

TheNetsFan wrote:What draft record post Allen? We've traded most picks away on or before draft nights to add vets. The one that sticks out as poor was the Shamet trade if it was in fact purely a first for Shamet and not entwined as part of the Brown trade as originally reported.

We haven't drafted very high up after JA, but what picks we did make have not helped us at all. We are supposedly in our championship window and we've not gotten anything from our first round picks for the past 4-5 years. That's simply poor management, you either draft guys that can play and contribute right away, or you trade them for guys who can.

Recent First round picks, I won't include 2nd rounders since there's no real expectations of a return on those.
Musa
Cam
Sharpe

Speaking of Shamet trade, that was another disaster. Saddiq Bey could actually help us right now.

Hindsight is 20 20

I am ambivalent on Sean Marks. One one hand, I appreciate that he swung for the fences to try and get us a title. On the other hand this season looks like our last open window. And that window is not exactly wide open.

So if it is one and done or a second round exit. It might be time to move on. Although there is a case for stability. I always admired the teams that stuck with there GM's and coaches.

Biggest gaffe for me was the Big Jay trade that could have been avoided for a pick. Jarrett Allen keeps climbing the ladder in the NBA player rankings. Has an inexpensive contract and brings so much to the table.

Then again, Marks also drafted Claxton at 31. If Nic can keep building and avoid injuries and set backs, he could be one of the best 2nd rounders of all time.

sashaturiaf wrote:

TheNetsFan wrote:What draft record post Allen? We've traded most picks away on or before draft nights to add vets. The one that sticks out as poor was the Shamet trade if it was in fact purely a first for Shamet and not entwined as part of the Brown trade as originally reported.

We haven't drafted very high up after JA, but what picks we did make have not helped us at all. We are supposedly in our championship window and we've not gotten anything from our first round picks for the past 4-5 years. That's simply poor management, you either draft guys that can play and contribute right away, or you trade them for guys who can.

Recent First round picks, I won't include 2nd rounders since there's no real expectations of a return on those.
Musa
Cam
Sharpe

Speaking of Shamet trade, that was another disaster. Saddiq Bey could actually help us right now.

Context is key. In hindsight, the Musa pick was rough, because many 2nd rounders from that 2018 draft have developed well. Outside of Herb Jones, there's not really any picked after Thomas and Sharpe that have paid dividends yet.

The key is development. It's often less about missing that late in the draft and more about the development. Development was a great focus under Kenny. It's not with a KD and Kyrie led team with championship aspirations.

Trading Thad young for a pick that turned out to be Levert was a great move, we was looking for young assets and losing Thad didn't hurt much. Levert had some highlights here even though I thought he'd be better but wish him well.

The Saddiq Bey trade was bad, especially just for a guy like Shamet. I remember a few mock drafts had us drafting Desmond Bane, that would of been a home run pick right now. Musa was a bad pick too, dude was trash. But Kurucs was pretty decent until he got arrested.

I can't be too mad at the Harden trade. Dude was a top5 player for years, nobody knew he would be getting injured and being lazy. At that time, you have to make that trade. 3 guys in the top 10 players list is a no brainer and we would of won a ring had Greek Freak not injured Kyrie on purpose. The thing I don't like is when we traded Harden for Ben we only got 2 picks, we should have gotten at least 3 and all non protected. We gave up like 6 picks for Harden so we should of at least got half of that back, and Ben hadn't played that whole season.

I don't like that we traded a 1st for O'neale, I feel like we could of gotten him for cheaper than that. He's really only a 3 and D player but I'm happy to have him.

We still need a big man. And yea he doesn't make the in season deadline trades to complete the rosters. I didn't like the Cam Thomas pick but looking at that draft, it's a pretty weak draft class. And he let the inmates run the building too much.

I'm not on the get rid of Marks train just yet tbh. I think he's done more good than bad. I don't think any other GM could of gotten us out that mud we was in back then with no picks but he found some diamond in the roughs like Dinwiddie and Joe Harris etc.. and turned guys into assets. He got KD and Kyrie to sign here. Dude turned sewer water into wine. Even if we don't win a ring ( which I pray we do) we have to cherish these times.

Resigning Patty Mills over Bruce Brown looks like a mistake too. Yeah, i know, Ben needs a babysitter i guess but he's been balling for Denver.

11ppg 5rpg 5apg on 47/41/89

Marks has been horrible for awhile now.

MrDollarBills wrote:Resigning Patty Mills over Bruce Brown looks like a mistake too. Yeah, i know, Ben needs a babysitter i guess but he's been balling for Denver.

11ppg 5rpg 5apg on 47/41/89

Marks has been horrible for awhile now.

Still not over how he didn't even make Bruce an offer. Just wild.

As has been mentioned, Marks refusal to add a big man has been problematic for us. The ones he has added in the past (LMA, Drummond) were plodders that really didn't help us a ton in the end of the day.

MrDollarBills wrote:Trading LeVert is a non issue because it saved his life from cancer.

Marks allowing himself to be bitched by Kyrie and KD along with Nash are his worst offenses. His lack of in season moves to shore up the roster also is a red check on his ledger.

I'm ready to move on from all of this.

Marks's biggest mistake was hiring Nash.

I honestly believed if we have a strong voice like Tye Lue, then we don't go into that massive losing streak. And Harden doesn't demand a trade.

But we will never know. He was just the worst coach I've ever seen.

We are SO much better now that he is gone.

MrDollarBills wrote:Resigning Patty Mills over Bruce Brown looks like a mistake too. Yeah, i know, Ben needs a babysitter i guess but he's been balling for Denver.

11ppg 5rpg 5apg on 47/41/89

Marks has been horrible for awhile now.

I agree. Not signing Brown was so stupid.

He would a be a huge help defensively right now. And we only had to use our MLE to sign him.

On the other hand Yuta was a great find.

Hello Brooklyn wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:Resigning Patty Mills over Bruce Brown looks like a mistake too. Yeah, i know, Ben needs a babysitter i guess but he's been balling for Denver.

11ppg 5rpg 5apg on 47/41/89

Marks has been horrible for awhile now.

I agree. Not signing Brown was so stupid.

He would a be a huge help defensively right now. And we only had to use our MLE to sign him.

On the other hand Yuta was a great find.

I think the narrative of Mills over Brown is false. Both had bird rights and were able to be signed. Until proven otherwise, I'm firm in my belief that Marks wanted to preserve 2024 cap space and Brown was looking for a long term deal. Nets wouldn't give him 3+ years and pivoted to trading for Royce whose deal has only 2 years remaining. Brown and Royce are redundant. In hindsight, Brown was forced to settle for a 2 year deal (with a player option which he will exercise). That would have been better than trading a 1st for Royce, but Marks likely didn't want to miss the opportunity and have no leverage in a Brown negotiation.

HB is right, Marks did sign Yuta, who is just a joy to have on this roster.

Even when he's on the bench in street clothes dude is always smiling and engaged. I love Nets players who are actually just happy to be here lol

MrDollarBills wrote:HB is right, Marks did sign Yuta, who is just a joy to have on this roster.

Even when he's on the bench in street clothes dude is always smiling and engaged. I love Nets players who are actually just happy to be here lol

You must really love Cam then

sashaturiaf wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:HB is right, Marks did sign Yuta, who is just a joy to have on this roster.

Even when he's on the bench in street clothes dude is always smiling and engaged. I love Nets players who are actually just happy to be here lol

You must really love Cam then

Nah Cam seems like he's a malcontent

MrDollarBills wrote:

sashaturiaf wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:HB is right, Marks did sign Yuta, who is just a joy to have on this roster.

Even when he's on the bench in street clothes dude is always smiling and engaged. I love Nets players who are actually just happy to be here lol

You must really love Cam then

Nah Cam seems like he's a malcontent

Sorry sarcasm doesn't translate well across text. Cam constantly looks like he just got sentenced to 10 years at Rikers.

sashaturiaf wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:

sashaturiaf wrote:

You must really love Cam then

Nah Cam seems like he's a malcontent

Sorry sarcasm doesn't translate well across text. Cam constantly looks like he just got sentenced to 10 years at Rikers.

Cam thinks he's better than he really is. A huge tip off was when he was posting garbage on social media about him not getting minutes. He feels entitled.

MrDollarBills wrote:Marks allowing himself to be bitched by Kyrie and KD along with Nash are his worst offenses. His lack of in season moves to shore up the roster also is a red check on his ledger.

Caving to KD & KI's whims (particularly Kyrie) is arguably the biggest gaffe of all. It directly undermined years of Marks doing great work, carefully constructing an egalitarian, accountable franchise of employees, where even people at the bottom felt like they were being given a pretty good shake. (that's according to a couple accts I've read from lower-tier Nets people on Reddit)

sashaturiaf wrote:- Coaching situation, hiring Nash in the first place, letting Udoka go, not retaining MDA when you had Harden on the roster, not firing Nash sooner.

At least Marks can say that Udoka was unproven as a HC at the time, and that every coaching prospect (even Nash) deserves a trial period, but yeah... letting them both walk looks like a horror show in retrospect.

Actually I suspect there's a lot more behind the story, as in those two (and others) giving Marks feedback about Nash (and likely other issues) and Marks just 'not wanting to hear it.' Which is a really bad look for any manager at any level IMO.

Stone wrote:Hindsight is 20 20

I am ambivalent on Sean Marks. One one hand, I appreciate that he swung for the fences to try and get us a title.

I feel like if there's one particular area where Nets fans are being a bunch of spoiled babies, it's in willfully ignoring the fact that once KD&KI were signed, it set off a chain of subsequent events, most of which made plenty of sense at the time. Hell, it's not just that most Nets fans were down with those decisions at the time, it's that most Nets fans were thrilled with the KD&KI signings from the starting gun. True / not true...?

So to me it's not *just* that Marks has sucked hard across various specific decisions, but also that Nets fans have been a bunch of short-sighted, selfish idiots, as usual with sports fans. Of course I'm not saying anything new or truly offensive with that. My point is-- "let that factor in the to evaluation of Marks, mais non?"

TheNetsFan wrote:The key is development. It's often less about missing that late in the draft and more about the development. Development was a great focus under Kenny. It's not with a KD and Kyrie led team with championship aspirations.

Excellent point IMO.

It's like the whole focus shifted with the KDKI signings and the firing of Kenny. Meanwhile, it seems to me the Association has some pretty awesome coaches such as Pop and Spoelstra who find a way to reign in their stars while developing younger dudes, and not so much falling in to the trap of 'stars rest / youngsters work', or something like that.

No question (yes yes hindsight) that Kenny should have been given at least one season to coach the chucklehead duo. Okay sure-- I could see Marks firing Kenny eventually over Kyrie doing everything he could to resist coaching and undermine Atkinson, but at least the dude had earned his opportunity after hard work for Marks & the Nets, right..?

MrDollarBills wrote:Resigning Patty Mills over Bruce Brown looks like a mistake too. Yeah, i know, Ben needs a babysitter i guess but he's been balling for Denver.

Everyone loves Patty, but he's just too small, one-dimensional, and costly. Meanwhile, Bruce busts his ass, can defend PF's here and there, and keeps growing every season.

To not even offer him a contract (which Brown just talked about recently with dismay) is so incredibly disappointing.

Note: seems like a very good rebuttal above about why the Mills / Brown / O'Neale thing went down how it did. Unfortunately, this creaky old software started cutting me off on more quotes. Bah.