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I wanted to open up this thread for discussion on the net defense.

There are just way too many concerns so I'll just jot some down off the top of my head. Our defense is pretty much terrible in every way. we have neither the right strategy or the intangibles.

How is it that a player (kobe) can throw a cross court pass to a shooter (fisher) and the shot is released before a net is within 3 feet of him? Is everyone just watching the ball? "its a bird! its a plane! oh nm...its the basketball...my bad"

It's pretty obvious at this point that Frank is a poor defensive coach since no player knows where to be on defense especially since Collins is now gone. Defense is about the little things, positioning, taking away opportunities, making people hesitate, disrupting flow. Thats why for all his shot blocking ability, Sean is still not a good defender. In fact, no one on the nets is a good defender outside Kidd (who's man defense has taken a step back). Carter has the skills and instincts but he doesn't wanna get sweat on his sweatband. Fine. And is it just me or is RJ just bad?

Poor help D becomes more glaring because no one can keep a man in front of him. Everyone needs help. Result? Open shots all around.

And seriously, our young front line needs a lot of work.

Just watched another nets game. This time the Lakers, but same result:

Well damn, aren't you a negative nancy. Then again there really isn't much about this team to feel positive about so we might as well rag on the defense. I agree with everything you said, our D is laughable

Yeah, TBH that's the biggest difference between this team over the past 2 years and the Nets now.

I agree that the Nets defense sucks but I think the majority of the blame should be placed on the Nets players not the Nets coaching staff.

I disagree on Sean Williams. Shot blocking disrupts offensive flow and makes people hesitate, things which the original poster said were parts of strong defense.

Once Stromile starts playing the Nets D will improve dramatically. Swift and Williams should be a very good defensive duo in the frontcourt.

Nets play defense? That's news to me.

jzmagik wrote:Nets play defense? That's news to me.

Collins did...

NetsForce wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Collins did...

Yea, it's just a shame that he didn't play offense.

jzmagik wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Yea, it's just a shame that he didn't play offense.

Yeah but that was only because he was such a team player and figured that since everyone else wanted to score so badly he'd just let them take all of his shots

The topic is DEFENSE:

Boone and Sean != JC and KMart

The young guys are young, but they are a major reason we get blown out at the end of games or choke away leads. Yesterday's game the team did a better job than usual of keeping guys in front of them, or directing them to drive away from the baseline. But when no one closes ranks to take charges and guard the basket the defense doesn't work. And then we overhelp in the paint, because we have no confidence in the frontcourt defense, the perimeter shooters get wide open shots (a la Fisher).

When we don't box out, and the opponents miss a shot but get the offensive rebound, the operation succeeded but the patient died. Half a good defense is no better than no defense at all. It must be all 5 guys. JC had no stats, but always had great defensive positioning, he would take charges and offensive fouls like no one else. This is what the young guys need to learn. Krstic also needs to come back healthy to maybe shore up the defense.

NetsForce wrote:I agree that the Nets defense sucks but I think the majority of the blame should be placed on the Nets players not the Nets coaching staff.

Well it's a lack of attention and effort on the players' parts but i get the feeling that they are also uninformed and ill-prepared, which is the coaching staff's job. The players are supposed to be coached and taught what to expect and to anticipate. Then you'd see players inching a smart couple inches one way or another and many times thats all it takes to disrupt an offense. Instead, the nets either stand and watch the ball or leap and bound leaving their man wide open. Our collective basketball IQ is very poor. UCLA is a better defensive team even without a shut down guy or shot blocker; just effort and good coaching. (Go Bruins)

Also, Sean can be disruptive around the hoop but his poor positioning allows far too many easy set ups. He may disrupt isolated plays but he won't disrupt an offense because that takes constant attention. His length won't make up for everything up against skilled guys who are just as long as you saw last night against Pau Gasol.

You have no defense when half of the team does not try on defense because they want out or they are just lazy.

dacher wrote:The topic is DEFENSE:

Boone and Sean != JC and KMart

The young guys are young, but they are a major reason we get blown out at the end of games or choke away leads. Yesterday's game the team did a better job than usual of keeping guys in front of them, or directing them to drive away from the baseline. But when no one closes ranks to take charges and guard the basket the defense doesn't work. And then we overhelp in the paint, because we have no confidence in the frontcourt defense, the perimeter shooters get wide open shots (a la Fisher).

When we don't box out, and the opponents miss a shot but get the offensive rebound, the operation succeeded but the patient died. Half a good defense is no better than no defense at all. It must be all 5 guys. JC had no stats, but always had great defensive positioning, he would take charges and offensive fouls like no one else. This is what the young guys need to learn. Krstic also needs to come back healthy to maybe shore up the defense.

A dead on observation and I thinks as Boone bulks up and picks up more experience. That should help us but maybe next year.

EFF wrote:It's pretty obvious at this point that Frank is a poor defensive coach since no player knows where to be on defense especially since Collins is now gone. Defense is about the little things, positioning, taking away opportunities, making people hesitate, disrupting flow. Thats why for all his shot blocking ability, Sean is still not a good defender. In fact, no one on the nets is a good defender outside Kidd (who's man defense has taken a step back). Carter has the skills and instincts but he doesn't wanna get sweat on his sweatband. Fine. And is it just me or is RJ just bad?

I remember RJ back when he was just on his 2nd year, he was a really good defender. He would block, sacrifice for a charge and would steal but lately it seemed like he's focusing more on other things and that i believe is one of the main reason why sometimes we choke on defense. I say this because RJ is a big part of this team.

One example is against the Hawks, 2nd quarter 5 seconds remaining when MW drove to the basket (or maybe someone else, correct me if im wrong) and missed the layup, RJ was there and should've gotten the rebound but instead he went towards the other court maybe thinking that he can still get a fastbreak off from WHOEVER IS GOING TO REBOUND IT, Josh Childress went flying towards the ball, rebounded it and scored on a layup. I wouldn't not consider this as defending when DEFENSE is our topic here but REBOUNDING is one of the HUGE reasons on why we are not successful right now.

RJ got beat by Childress or Marvin Williams the last time and he got beat again by Radmanovic. He seemed confused with the defense or maybe he just doesn't care at all. Even the game yesterday against the Lakers, during a Lakers fastbreak, he should be covering whoever is going towards the basket bcoz he was there first but instead he flying towards Radmanovic and Odom saw an open player (don't remember who the player was) passed it and slammed the ball. RJ is expected to cover the open player on a fastbreak and cover his own player on a half court defense and maybe swing back and forth just to try to give some help downlow.

And im sorry but Frank needs to get outta here. His substitutions are HORRIBLE!!

Yeah maybe RJ is more concerned with getting his points. Whether that's intentional or no we'll never know. But he consistently leaves gaping holes in the defense one way or another. Only time ive recognized his defense is when he blocked Vlad. Radmon. during the Laker game.

I've always kinda taken it for granted that he'd play defense but it's way too obvious that he's not.

Lawrence Frank has no idea what group plays well together so he just goes with the 'what the hell' rotation. I think his reasoning just goes something like , "well malik can hit a jumper. Vince needs a rest - go wright. stay inbounds. We're down by 12. Bokie go hit a couple threes. How many fouls does Sean have?" and so on...

EEF is right. I've had such big expectations since VC got traded here and our idiot coach is ruining our potential chemistry. I still think our Big 3 is talented enough to win a ring, but as long as LF is coach...I don't think we'll ever make it.

EFF wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Also, Sean can be disruptive around the hoop but his poor positioning allows far too many easy set ups. He may disrupt isolated plays but he won't disrupt an offense because that takes constant attention. His length won't make up for everything up against skilled guys who are just as long as you saw last night against Pau Gasol.

I dunno Gasol did diddly in the first half and didn't seem to do much at all until the second half... wasn't Williams already under the bus at that point?

I'll admit that I tuned out during the third quarter...

When Stromile actually is finally allowed to play (IF he is allowed to play!!) I'll be better about sitting through entire games, even in losses.

We've been an average team AT BEST since Kittles and Martin left.

It's horrible. Kerry Kittles, if he were at the level he was at during our finals run, would be the perfect 3rd guard for this team. Sean Williams is going to be a similar defensive player to Martin in the long run. I'd like to see Antoine Wright devote effort to defense - he seems to have the right talent set for that.

Right now, we have 0 top-notch defensive players.

RJ, Boone, S. Williams, Wright all could be solid secondary options on defense in a proper system.

Kidd and VC however, can't play defense to save their lives.

netsforever wrote:We've been an average team AT BEST since Kittles and Martin left.

It's horrible. Kerry Kittles, if he were at the level he was at during our finals run, would be the perfect 3rd guard for this team. Sean Williams is going to be a similar defensive player to Martin in the long run. I'd like to see Antoine Wright devote effort to defense - he seems to have the right talent set for that.

Right now, we have 0 top-notch defensive players.

RJ, Boone, S. Williams, Wright all could be solid secondary options on defense in a proper system.

Kidd and VC however, can't play defense to save their lives.

Going to have to disagree here. We lost to the eventual champs ever since they left. Miami killed us the first time, but it could have gone either way the following year. In the Cavs series, Kristic would have put us over the top. We've made huge runs and dominated top teams eg DET Mavs and Suns.

We still have a lot of untapped team potential to be a strong offensive and defensive team, but I put alot of blame on the coach for that.

ViNNNsanity wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Going to have to disagree here. We lost to the eventual champs ever since they left. Miami killed us the first time, but it could have gone either way the following year. In the Cavs series, Kristic would have put us over the top. We've made huge runs and dominated top teams eg DET Mavs and Suns.

We still have a lot of untapped team potential to be a strong offensive and defensive team, but I put alot of blame on the coach for that.

Huh.

Well, K-Mart and Kittles left after 03-04, when we won 47 games. We won 49 and 52 in the two years following.

Since then, we have had a winning percentage of 48%. We were swept out of the playoffs in 04-05, lost in 5 in 05-06, lost in 6 in 06-07, finishing in the 1st round, 2nd round, 2nd round.

Currently, we are 9 games below .500 and will get swept by the 1st seed in the unlikely event that we reach the playoffs.

This team is done. We are not better than Boston, or Detroit, or any other Eastern powers.

The teams that we have lost to in the playoffs have won one championship. We were not robbed. This team is no longer an elite team in the league, regardless of the coaching (which I do agree is an issue).

Time to move on.