Why are people thinking RJ was our best player ?

[Serpo]

I mean seriously i love RJ and appreciate everything he was done . But when i read some comments of guys that don't understand why we traded our best player far a bad contract and a Yi i'm starting to scratch my head.

Do these guys even watch the Nets or do they just look at stat sheets ? RJ was the third best player with Kidd and Carter here and i'm not really sure how far he is above Harris .

Any team need a guy like RJ but not at this contract size , especially when your building for the future . You can't build around a 2nd-3rd option like RJ .

Which is btw i don't understand the trade for Millwaukee . Who the hell are they running their offense through ? And with Mo Williams , Michael Redd and RJ on one team are they trying to set a record for Turnover per Game in a season ? Neither of these guys are great passers or ballhandler ....

[No. 12]

People think RJ is the best player on the Nets because he is the last player from the 2003 team and last year was his best year scoring wise.

[Serpo]

Ok i think i have to be more exact with guys . I've read columns from so called "experts" calling him the Nets best player . I mean what makes these guys experts when they obviosly never watched the Nets and still write articles about them...

[Preludepunk27]

A lot of people equate best player = leading scorer. RJ was probably my favorite player on last years roster (don't care how long he played there, K-Mart and Petrovic are tied for my favorite Nets ever), but I don't think he was the best last year. People also equate best player = vet with most trade value (not including expiring players). RJ met both these categories so for the people that judge players on that, RJ = Best Player.

[kamaze]

It's a matter of opinion people like who they like. We'll see how good he is in Milwaukee if they makke the playoffs I'm giving the majority of credit to RJ.

[RamonSessions]

I mean seriously i love RJ and appreciate everything he was done . But when i read some comments of guys that don't understand why we traded our best player far a bad contract and a Yi i'm starting to scratch my head.

Do these guys even watch the Nets or do they just look at stat sheets ? RJ was the third best player with Kidd and Carter here and i'm not really sure how far he is above Harris .

Any team need a guy like RJ but not at this contract size , especially when your building for the future . You can't build around a 2nd-3rd option like RJ .

Which is btw i don't understand the trade for Millwaukee . Who the hell are they running their offense through ? And with Mo Williams , Michael Redd and RJ on one team are they trying to set a record for Turnover per Game in a season ? Neither of these guys are great passers or ballhandler ....

Mo Williams won't start if he hasn't even been traded yet!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ramon Sessions is a crazy facilitator, and will deservingly beat him for the starting position under Scott Skiles.

[RamonSessions]

It's a matter of opinion people like who they like. We'll see how good he is in Milwaukee if they makke the playoffs I'm giving the majority of credit to RJ.

It couldn't be just RJ, I see what you're saying but the Bucks aren't done making moves and Bucks draft night was a step towards getting better defense/attitude/ ethics, Mbah a Moute arguably the best defender out of the draft 6'7 with a 7'2 wingspan was in 3 final fours in his UCLA tenor-- Joe Alexander a gym rat with freakish athleticism, RJ of course.

But on the Bucks roster we've already got an outstanding big man in Bogut, and a PG invisible to the casual NBA fan but know for having amazing potential in Sessions by MIL fans/ NBA insiders. Vince Carter was all over him congratulating him during the game the Nets last faced the Bucks. If the Bucks make the playoffs and are pretty successful it will have to do with the combination of draft moves, RJ trade, Bogut, Sessions development as a player and any further moves the Bucks might pull off before next season.

[Birth of the Cool]

It couldn't be just RJ, I see what you're saying but the Bucks aren't done making moves and Bucks draft night was a step towards getting better defense/attitude/ ethics, Mbah a Moute arguably the best defender out of the draft 6'7 with a 7'2 wingspan was in 3 final fours in his UCLA tenor-- Joe Alexander a gym rat with freakish athleticism, RJ of course.

But on the Bucks roster we've already got an outstanding big man in Bogut, and a PG invisible to the casual NBA fan but know for having amazing potential in Sessions by MIL fans/ NBA insiders. Vince Carter was all over him congratulating him during the game the Nets last faced the Bucks. If the Bucks make the playoffs and are pretty successful it will have to do with the combination of draft moves, RJ trade, Bogut, Sessions development as a player and any further moves the Bucks might pull off before next season.

I do remember Sessions in that game and I read how high fans were about this kid but let's see what he does with regular playing time/minutes over a full season (SWat looked like a monster for the Nets the first half of his rookie season & was a shell of himself after the All-Star break).

Sessions didn't seem to be that good defensively and the Bucks current starting backcourt's failures on defense is one of the biggest things the Bucks have to fix. I really like Bogut myself and am perplexed why Bucks don't run more plays through him since he seems to be capable of scoring but can also be good passer from the low or high block.

Defense (esp. backcourt) and sharing the ball (again facilitated by the backcourt) will be the keys to the Bucks success.

Anyways I posted more just because I noticed you have same (better) avatar that I do. I'm seeing them in September and reviews for their tour so far have been loud & good.

[Dexmor]

Because he was the best player on the Nets. Vince is more talented but he is probably more talented then everybody but he just doesn't have that drive to play both ends or hustle, well you guys know. He was the second best defender and the most consistant player who got 22 a game.

[Birth of the Cool]

Because he was the best player on the Nets. Vince is more talented but he is probably more talented then everybody but he just doesn't have that drive to play both ends or hustle, well you guys know. He was the second best defender and the most consistant player who got 22 a game.

Serpo the above post is your answer why. For the most part of last year VC was blamed for the Nets woes and big names like Magic Johnson was calling VC just a regular player and people who don't watch the Nets but know VC's poor reputation just assume VC is the reason the Nets suck (not saying RJ was either...whole host of issues why that Nets organization has tried to finally address - just see our draft picks for one of those reasons).

VC does play both ends of the court for the Nets and he does hustle (heck he dove for a loose ball out of bounds with Shaq chasing after it also when the Nets were pretty much out of the playoffs already, VC dives on the ground for loose balls as much as any Nets player). So he does hustle.

His defense is underrated. Who is the last opposing player to light up VC ? I'll agree that VC doesn't guard the best wing player (it was usually RJ unless the other wing's name was Kobe) but he does a solid job. I'd say VC's main weaknesses on defense is guarding quick players (not good a guarding PG's for that reason) and over-helping especially double-teaming the ball in the post too early and not being able to get back on time to rotate back to perimeter players when the ball is rotated back outside. He is one of the few Nets wing players that consistently reach in on drives to the basket to try & help his teammate get a strip, and he is the best Nets defender to use his hands to deny/disrupt/or steal balls in the passing lane (edit: oops - 2nd best now most likely - haven't seen him enough but Harris is up there). The #'s again prove this out as his defensive rating among SG's is above average in the league. Part of defense is also controlling your own glass & VC was solid at his position for grabbing defensive rebounds. He's also a strong post defender and therefore can even spot guard 4's and why it's best to attack him with quick players or pick & rolls.
(Kobe's opponent per at SG is 14.4 at 0.466 efg% while VC's is 14.3 at 0.466% efg. I assume Kobe probably has to guard #1 wing offensive players more than VC but it gives you an indication that VC does indeed play solid defense. I don't think you will read many Nets fans (people who actually watch the majority of Nets games last year) complain too much about VC's defense. Like everyone else he has bad days but for the most part he's good (not great).

Alot of Nets fans actually complained more about RJ's defense last year than VC's. Me personally I thought RJ was OK defensively considering that he had to handle (spend more energy) more responsibilities on offense. RJ also had the task of guarding the best wing (usually). I just think too many times in key moments/possessions RJ was scored which might have given the impression that RJ was far worse defensively then he really was.

I will agree that RJ was the most consistent WING Nets player for the year. He kinda stumbled at the end there after the Kidd trade in consistency. A good argument can be made that Boone was the most consistent Nets player last year though but I will concede RJ was more consistent than VC last year.

Finally, here are the #'s:
RJ - 22.6 ppg / 4.2 rpg / 3.1 apg / 0.9 spg / 0.3 bpg / 0.466 fg% / 0.798 ft% / 0.362 3pt%
VC - 21.3 ppg / 6.0 rpg / 5.1 apg / 1.2 spg / 0.4 bpg / 0.456 fg% / 0.816 ft% / 0.359 3pt%

so on raw #'s alone RJ leads in ppg / fg% / 3pt% (3 of 8 categories). To be fair their #'s are pretty identical even in the categories VC is ahead (small margin) except for perhaps assists.

However consider that defenses (even when Kidd was here) were focused on stopping VC (double+ teams, collapsing help defense towards VC's side whenever he touched the ball). Also VC had to create his own shot and facilitate scoring opportunities for his teammates much more than RJ (whose main role on offense was to get into scoring opportunities, run the fast break and score, score, score).

then also consider other stats like RJ's eff rating was +18.33 while VC's was +21.45 / RJ's Roland Rating was +2.6 while VC's was +8.5, RJ's +/- was +2.2 while VC's was +12.2.

This isn't a knock on RJ at all but just an explanation of why I think VC even on a bum ankle was the better player last year for the Nets. I watched practically all the Nets game and feel comfortable with that position but of course I must admit i'm a VC "fanboy" but even through these biased eyes I think the #'s also support what I'm seeing.

[Serpo]

Because he was the best player on the Nets. Vince is more talented but he is probably more talented then everybody but he just doesn't have that drive to play both ends or hustle, well you guys know. He was the second best defender and the most consistant player who got 22 a game.

RJ def. was not the second best defender on the team last year. Some years ago yeah but this year ?

~the fith best sounds about right ....

And when you bring in his woes with handling the ball and passing you have yourself one of the most overrated players in the league .

But well thats happening when you don't watch the games of the team with regularity.

What exactly is the reason we've never won a game with Vince Carter out while we still went on winning streaks that lead to playoff runs when RJ was out ? Doesn't make sense if RJ was our best player .

And have you actually seen the % of RJ'S shots that where assisted ? It's extremely high something around 80% if i remeber right .

He's a complementary player , a very good one but he's just overpaid bigtime.

[cocoamix]

I mean seriously i love RJ and appreciate everything he was done . But when i read some comments of guys that don't understand why we traded our best player far a bad contract and a Yi i'm starting to scratch my head.

Do these guys even watch the Nets or do they just look at stat sheets ? RJ was the third best player with Kidd and Carter here and i'm not really sure how far he is above Harris .

Any team need a guy like RJ but not at this contract size , especially when your building for the future . You can't build around a 2nd-3rd option like RJ .

Which is btw i don't understand the trade for Millwaukee . Who the hell are they running their offense through ? And with Mo Williams , Michael Redd and RJ on one team are they trying to set a record for Turnover per Game in a season ? Neither of these guys are great passers or ballhandler ....

I respected you starting an RJ appreciation thread. Here's just my 2 cents.

I'm not here to debate whether he's 1st, 2nd, 3rd... best player in the Nets rosters or his contract (speaking of which, I don't really think his contract is THAT unreasonable in today's market). Call me delusional, but I just see RJ being proud and willing to represent this Nets team. This is some value you just don't see very often these days. As a fan, I appreciate that very much.

I guess there's just no lifetime Net under current management. Probably it's just not what people appreciate these days and I'm just old school.

Nets never really made bold moves in my opinion. The management always wants to get something back. I'm lukewarm about this trade. Even I know RJ is destined to be traded sooner or later, it's still going to take some getting used to for the new rosters. I just hope Lawrence Frank and company are ready to have a blueprint in mind instead of doing some mix and match in the game time or playing VC for 45 minutes a game.

[ecuhus1981]

RJ is overpaid and overrated. He is a shoddy defender, and shies away from every elite SF matchup. Getting Yi in return for him is good, and will reap franchise-changing benefits both on and off the court.

[60cent]

I watched all the games last year and one thing i dont't like about RJ is he was either a bad passer, or he just didn't see the open big guys inside, or he just didn't trust his teammates. Many times i've seen him and i'd struggled screaming at him on TV to pass it to the open SWill or Boone but he would always hold on to the ball and later on shoot the ball from the outside. That really pissed me off.

I love RJ but it's time for a change and VC is more suited to handle a whole team than RJ. And VC had been there, done that.