Vince Carter on Dime magazines loser list

tjm384 · Post #1 » by **tjm384** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:15 pm

http://dimemag.com/2008/07/the-loser-list-vince-carter/

Rough article

Adam1221 · Post #2 » by **Adam1221** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:33 pm

Vince really does get a bit of a bad rep around the league and I just dont get it.
If you actually bother to watch his games unless he's injured he constantly attacks the basket and doesnt "settle" for J's like so many people accuse him.

Post #3 » by **jerseyjac** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:02 pm

you either on one band wagon or the other...there is no in between with Vince...

Preludepunk27 · Post #4 » by **Preludepunk27** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:18 pm

^^^ Exactly. I love Vince. I'll defend him to the end. I love people rip the crap out of him...then they come on our board and are like "How bout you trade me Vince for our big expiring." Honestly, 99% of the people that hate Vince are hypocrites.

Post #5 » by **jerseyjac** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:24 pm

Preludepunk27 wrote:^^^ Exactly. I love Vince. I'll defend him to the end. I love people rip the crap out of him...then they come on our board and are like "How bout you trade me Vince for our big expiring." Honestly, 99% of the people that hate Vince are hypocrites.

or want to sell something... :wink:

jeff1624 · Post #6 » by **jeff1624** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:36 pm

Vince Carter will always be hated, he's probably the Alex Rodriguez without the 20+ mil contract. There are a number of people who can be considered bigger losers than VC; Iverson and how he makes everyteam he's on worst, t-mac and never getting to the 2nd round etc etc. Yet VC gets all the hate. Must be his laid back attitude or whatever.

halfHAVOC · Post #7 » by **halfHAVOC** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:49 pm

i think VC gets more of the hatred because when he admitted he didn't try hard when he was in toronto , but tmac said the same thing so why isn't there an article about him being a big loser?

i still like both guys i dont think you can ever blame a WHOLE TEAM'S SUCCESS on ONE GUY.

NetsForce · Post #8 » by **NetsForce** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:36 pm

Carter is no more a loser than some other big name players in the NBA but the perception of him "quitting" on the Raptors isn't likely to die anytime soon...

Post #9 » by **jerseyjac** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:20 am

I think Vince has Toronto, their media and the great editing job that was done on the Thompson interview to thank...we've been through this a million times...this is just another example of someone else riding that particular band wagon...and yeh you guys are right...it will probably never end...

even some Nets fans will agree...chalk up all the bad talk, some bad decisions made by Vince, let downs during the season and some no-show appearances...

Its not easy playing on a bad team for maybe the wrong coach...still he avg 21/6/5...hate all you want I hope he dulpicates last year and hopefully wins a couple games for us in the end...

S.I.C. GM · Post #10 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:05 pm

I think some people get caught up in just the numbers. Yeah VC has great numbers, but there is more to numbers that make you a great player.

It is competitive nature or winning mentality.

Yeah AI hasnt won anything but you cant say he is a bigger loser then VC. AI carried that 76ers team to the finals. VC had his chance to beat AI to head to the ECF, and blew it. You can say AI is a bigger chucker then VC, but when it comes to competitve nature, VC isnt even close to AI.

Malone, Barkley and even Ewing didnt win a damn thing, but are you saying that VC had their competitve nature. Those guys were warriors when it came to this game.

Yeah VC is a very good player to watch on SportsCenter.

As far as he getting all the hate, it think it is more fustration. He has all the potential in the world but takes it for granted.

jeff1624 · Post #11 » by **jeff1624** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:47 pm

S.I.C. GM wrote:I think some people get caught up in just the numbers. Yeah VC has great numbers, but there is more to numbers that make you a great player.

It is competitive nature or winning mentality.

Yeah AI hasnt won anything but you cant say he is a bigger loser then VC. AI carried that 76ers team to the finals. VC had his chance to beat AI to head to the ECF, and blew it. You can say AI is a bigger chucker then VC, but when it comes to competitve nature, VC isnt even close to AI.

Malone, Barkley and even Ewing didnt win a damn thing, but are you saying that VC had their competitve nature. Those guys were warriors when it came to this game.

Yeah VC is a very good player to watch on SportsCenter.

As far as he getting all the hate, it think it is more fustration. He has all the potential in the world but takes it for granted.

I don't think competitiveness has more value than actually producing wins for your team. Look at AI, the last 2 years he was with the phillies he failed to make the playoffs in a weak eastern conference. The FIRST FULL year after Iverson departed from the phillies, they made the playoffs and challenged the 2nd best team in the east.

One would suppose that adding an all star to an already good Denver team would at leats get them to the 2nd round. One would suppose that they'd be better in the regular season thus elevating their record to become a top 4 team in the west. Not so... They're stuck in mediocrity while his former team is upping there ranks at the same time.

Now can the same be said about VC?? A team that was 2-11 at one point before acquiring him, yet still made the playoffs. A team that had jacque vaughn starting at the 2 for most of the season.

When comparing VC and Iversons situation, do you honestly believe that if we were to trade VC for a regular SG let say Ben Gordon, that we would make the playoffs and force a game 6 vs Boston or Detroit?? Don't think so, yet that's what Philly did after dumping Iverson.

Yeah VC could have been a better player, Jordan like if he was more competitive and had maximized his potential as you noted, but overall he still makes his team better and produces more wins thus making him a better winner than some.

Post #12 » by **jerseyjac** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:58 pm

S.I.C. GM wrote:I think some people get caught up in just the numbers. Yeah VC has great numbers, but there is more to numbers that make you a great player.

It is competitive nature or winning mentality.

Yeah AI hasnt won anything but you cant say he is a bigger loser then VC. AI carried that 76ers team to the finals. VC had his chance to beat AI to head to the ECF, and blew it. You can say AI is a bigger chucker then VC, but when it comes to competitve nature, VC isnt even close to AI.

Malone, Barkley and even Ewing didnt win a damn thing, but are you saying that VC had their competitve nature. Those guys were warriors when it came to this game.

Yeah VC is a very good player to watch on SportsCenter.

As far as he getting all the hate, it think it is more fustration. He has all the potential in the world but takes it for granted.

caught up with numbers....no, but it does start and finish with how a player is producing...Vince has never been a born leader and thats been noted publically...as far as his mentality on the court, we all know his shortcomings there...my point is when all is said and done, you still have a player that can drop those type of numbers on any given night...(maybe we might be asking the wrong things from Vince, though I think this year could give him a fresh start... technically speaking its his team now)

Preludepunk27 · Post #13 » by **Preludepunk27** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:26 pm

I enjoy the fact that because AI carried a team for ONE SEASON, he automatically can't be called a loser. You remember the East back then? It was an absolute joke. That's why a lot of people still don't give the Nets ANY CRED for making 2 straight finals. I consider them on the same tier of players when you talk about winners and losers. Problem is I'm not like everyone else. Based on that ONE SEASON, people will automatically forget AI sucks the life out of his teams.

S.I.C. GM · Post #14 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:48 pm

jeff1624 wrote:
S.I.C. GM wrote:I think some people get caught up in just the numbers. Yeah VC has great numbers, but there is more to numbers that make you a great player.

It is competitive nature or winning mentality.

Yeah AI hasnt won anything but you cant say he is a bigger loser then VC. AI carried that 76ers team to the finals. VC had his chance to beat AI to head to the ECF, and blew it. You can say AI is a bigger chucker then VC, but when it comes to competitve nature, VC isnt even close to AI.

Malone, Barkley and even Ewing didnt win a damn thing, but are you saying that VC had their competitve nature. Those guys were warriors when it came to this game.

Yeah VC is a very good player to watch on SportsCenter.

As far as he getting all the hate, it think it is more fustration. He has all the potential in the world but takes it for granted.

I don't think competitiveness has more value than actually producing wins for your team. Look at AI, the last 2 years he was with the phillies he failed to make the playoffs in a weak eastern conference. The FIRST FULL year after Iverson departed from the phillies, they made the playoffs and challenged the 2nd best team in the east.

Please because a team slacks off on a mediocre team doesnt make a team better. The Pistons slacked off that series because their coach sucked. Flop Saunders gets the blame for that one.

One would suppose that adding an all star to an already good Denver team would at leats get them to the 2nd round. One would suppose that they'd be better in the regular season thus elevating their record to become a top 4 team in the west. Not so... They're stuck in mediocrity while his former team is upping there ranks at the same time.

That team had problems before AI got there. They still do because the JR Smith clearly should be starting but Karl is being an ass.

Now can the same be said about VC?? A team that was 2-11 at one point before acquiring him, yet still made the playoffs. A team that had jacque vaughn starting at the 2 for most of the season.
Does your weak EF argument work for this one?

When comparing VC and Iversons situation, do you honestly believe that if we were to trade VC for a regular SG let say Ben Gordon, that we would make the playoffs and force a game 6 vs Boston or Detroit?? Don't think so, yet that's what Philly did after dumping Iverson.
So what was the Hawks explanation for this. Both Boston and Pistons underestimated there opponents. Stop this BS. The Hawks and 76ers were both bad teams. The Pistons and Celtics should never had given them the time or day. Flop Saunders coaching and motivational skills suck. The Celtics big 3 had issues the first two rounds.

Yeah VC could have been a better player, Jordan like if he was more competitive and had maximized his potential as you noted, but overall he still makes his team better and produces more wins thus making him a better winner than some.

Produces more wins? what wins? We get bounced or not make it at all. So what is your point. If we didnt have him we would be worse. I would rather be worse then have a player that lacks drive to be a better player. I dont believe in this half full stuff.

S.I.C. GM · Post #15 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:53 pm

Preludepunk27 wrote:I enjoy the fact that because AI carried a team for ONE SEASON, he automatically can't be called a loser. You remember the East back then? It was an absolute joke. That's why a lot of people still don't give the Nets ANY CRED for making 2 straight finals. I consider them on the same tier of players when you talk about winners and losers. Problem is I'm not like everyone else. Based on that ONE SEASON, people will automatically forget AI sucks the life out of his teams.

I dont even care about the year. I am talking about how he comes on the court every game and plays like it was his last game. Do you guys deny that? Do you deny that the guy has heart and is very competitive? Can we list how many Stars are more competitve then VC?

jeff1624 · Post #16 » by **jeff1624** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:19 pm

Please because a team slacks off on a mediocre team doesnt make a team better. The Pistons slacked off that series because their coach sucked. Flop Saunders gets the blame for that one.

Who cares if they slacked off or not. They still won 2 games. This is the same squad that couldn't even make the playoffs when iverson was there

That team had problems before AI got there. They still do because the JR Smith clearly should be starting but Karl is being an ass.

We have an awful coach aswell so it equals things out.

Does your weak EF argument work for this one?

You can but it hurts your argument seeing as Iverson couldn't even get his team in the playoffs in suck a weak conference.

So what was the Hawks explanation for this. Both Boston and Pistons underestimated there opponents. Stop this BS. The Hawks and 76ers were both bad teams. The Pistons and Celtics should never had given them the time or day. Flop Saunders coaching and motivational skills suck. The Celtics big 3 had issues the first two rounds.

Again, who cares if they slacked off.

Produces more wins? what wins? We get bounced or not make it at all. So what is your point. If we didnt have him we would be worse. I would rather be worse then have a player that lacks drive to be a better player. I dont believe in this half full stuff.

Did we or did we not win 50 games in VC's 2nd full year?? A team that had just traded 2 of their core players a year before.