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Signing Dooling to a deal that was much more than anyone else was willing to give

PLUS

trading Marcus Williams for a future 1st that could very well end up a pair of 2nd-round pick in the teens of this century

EQUALS

the joy of this off-season has vanished for this Nets fan. I still hope we pull of a trade to consolidate our frontcourt and add a legit SF, but I have to say, these last two transaction from our franchise have me REALLY down on our FO. As a duo, Harris and Dooling have about the least amount of court vision in the entire NBA, meanwhile Marcus will be tearing it up as a supersub and other young PGs we could have gotten for him in a trade (Lowry, Brooks, Barea) will be serving their team faithfully.

I'm a looooooongtime Kidd fan, and a PG at heart. The direction I see NJ taking pains me, and I don't see it going as well as we deserve.

I rather have somebody that really can defend for 10-15 MPG off the bench and Marcus is not that.

Could it be that managment are changing the team accentuate the the players that they currently have.

For example, Harris is a score first PG and VC is probably a pass first SG. The thought is that we simply need players to put the ball in the hoop. I think the 3rd string PG job will go to J Carroll.

If im right we are going to make a trade for a veteran SG or SF who can make shots consistantly.

1)Dooling plays hard on both sides of the ball, unlike Marcus who barely was awake offensively except when it was time to jack up his own shot and could care less about playing defense.

2)Marcus was not concerned about getting shots for anyone else but himself, so i find it somewhat laughable that there is a complaint about the Nets having two PGs on the roster that, while not being the greatest passers, can defend/put the ball in the basket.

3)If the Nets actually get a lead this year, we can rest assured that our bench can sustain it because Thorn has brought in defenders and shooters

Stop complaining. One more deal and we will be fine

^

You do realize that Marcus Williams led the nation in assists his junior year in college? I think his shoot-first "mentality" was more a product of the expectations of him. Think of all of the backup PGs we've brought in: Darrell Armstrong, Eddie House, Keyon Dooling, Robert Hite and now Jaycee Carroll. All of these players fit the description of instant offense with their shooting ability, and all lack pure PG passing skills. I truly believe Marcus was ASKED by our coaching staff to be that shooter that we all see, becaus that never was his MO in college. It's not his best trait either.

I'm not complaining, but I am venting. I won't lie, this deal has taken the wind out of my sails this offseason. I hope we can nab a cheap, young 3rd PG to add to the lineup, one that more accurately suits our needs. I'm just upset because we didn't have to "sell" Marcus; we could've traded him for another young backup PG.

Doolings deal also has a very small buyout in the 3rd year. If we need a little bit more space in summer 2010, he's gonna get bought out to free up 2-3 million more. You made a list a last week about all the players we should look into over him and nobody really cared for them. Yes, most of them would come at a much cheaper price, but Dan Dickau is not better than Keyon on both ends of the floor. Did we overpay, most definitely. Do we need to add another backcourt player? Even if we kept Marcus I felt that was the case unless CDR comes on strong. Fact of the matter, management loves him, his contract is expensive but set up cap friendly for our long term plans, and I'd rather overpay him than sign anyone on your list we realistically could have gotten. Granted he's not my first choice. I wanted Janero Pargo because he plays harder in my opinion and it a better shooter. Trust me, we've signed worse players for more money than he got.

I agree with you though on Marcus. I think we most definitely could have packaged him with SOMEONE to get a player in return. Best case scenario, we get the #11 pick in 2013 or something. Worst case we get a 2nd rounder in 2013 and 2015. I guarantee you we're moving this pick before we ever get close to using it. In my head, I believe Thorn wanted to only get a draft pick if he couldn't get Marcus in a package. I think there are a few teams out there that are interested in Stro's expiring, but honestly didn't have a lot of faith in Marcus and would rather save a roster spot and get a pick instead. This pick allows us to keep the 3 we currently own that are all possibly lottery picks. Yeah I know I'm rambling but I'm warming up to the deal. If Marcus turns into a solid PG in the West, then we'll say this could be the first trade in recent memory where Thorn got fleeced. We haven't seen the end to the means in this deal yet so we can't really pass judgement on it completely.

Regardless, like Thorn said when talking about this deal, they don't plan on staying put still. I honestly believe that 1-3 more players will be out of here.

I do find it rather amusing that Vince, Sean and Josh are the ONLY players here now that were here at the start of camp last year.

ecuhus1981 wrote:^

You do realize that Marcus Williams led the nation in assists his junior year in college?

And what does that have to do with him being a 3rd year pro in the NBA that has shown next to nothing? He also led the nation in stealing during his sophomore year too. Didn't Adam Morrison lead the nation in scoring the year where the media was going crazy over him? Looks like that means a lot in the NBA

Let Marcus go...he wouldnt have had any success here

ecuhus1981 wrote:^

You do realize that Marcus Williams led the nation in assists his junior year in college? I think his shoot-first "mentality" was more a product of the expectations of him. Think of all of the backup PGs we've brought in: Darrell Armstrong, Eddie House, Keyon Dooling, Robert Hite and now Jaycee Carroll. All of these players fit the description of instant offense with their shooting ability, and all lack pure PG passing skills. I truly believe Marcus was ASKED by our coaching staff to be that shooter that we all see, becaus that never was his MO in college. It's not his best trait either.

I'm not complaining, but I am venting. I won't lie, this deal has taken the wind out of my sails this offseason. I hope we can nab a cheap, young 3rd PG to add to the lineup, one that more accurately suits our needs. I'm just upset because we didn't have to "sell" Marcus; we could've traded him for another young backup PG.

Honestly, I'd be totally fine if we could land the deal with Indy that's been talked about in the trade thread. I'd be cool with Diener as our #3.

^^that would be solid. I'm not sold on Jaycee at all.

MrDollarBills wrote:^^that would be solid. I'm not sold on Jaycee at all.

Neither am I

I'm not high on every choice the Nets made this offseason either...

Richard Jefferson for Yi Jianlian and Bobby Simmons - Whether we get LeBron or not, this choice had to be made. RJ's contract was too much to pay and that window of opportunity had closed. I just feel we could've squeezed out a pick in this trade. Reserving judgment on Yi.

Drafting Brook Lopez - At the time, I didn't like the pick. I'm still reserving judgment.

Drafting Ryan Anderson - There were plenty of other names, including CDR. Reserving judgment.

Drafting CDR - Probably saved myself from a murder spree that evening. Reserving judgment.

Giving Qualifying Offer To Nenad Krstic - I'd rather let him walk than take up another roster spot. Signing him also means we can't trade him until Dec. 15 if we wanted to.

Signing Jarvis Hayes - He was needed in the backcourt. He'll probably play some 3 also. 2 year deal...fine.

Signing Eduardo Najera - ANOTHER 3. Simmons/Hayes/Hassell/Anderson/CDR. Sure he could play 4, but it's not as if we're low on that either. Not to mention this is a 4 year deal. He could be hindering our young players' development by then also, especially with Frank's weird sub patterns.

Trading Keyon Dooling for the TE - We weren't going to sign him for the rest of the MLE (Thanks to Najera). Might as well use the TE to sign the guy we want. He could played both backcourt spots. 3 year deal with the last a small team option buyout.

Letting Boki Go - Fine by me.

Trading Marcus Williams To Golden State - I believe we traded him too early and thus, received a weird asset in return. Now we're talking about getting another 3rd string PG in the depths of Diener and Carroll.

Well, offseason isn't over yet. Thorn and Kiki are probably still thinking of making more moves even if half the team we can't trade because we recently signed, traded for, or has a BYC. I still believe a trade needs to begin with Nenad to not pay his new salary and wait until Dec. 15 to trade him and be packaged with another big (hopefully Swift) for something better.

And ecuhus, minus 10 points on the thread title.

^^^^ First time I read the title I looked to fast and thought the Nets were trading for Rodney Stuckey somehow and got excited.

Preludepunk27 wrote:^^^^ First time I read the title I looked to fast and thought the Nets were trading for Rodney Stuckey somehow and got excited.

Me too man. I'm glad I wasn't the only one. 100 points to you Prelude. These points don't mean anything. They're worth as much as the points on Whose Line Is It Anyway?.

Can you smell 2009 lottery?

Yes and I'm completely fine with it. Watch David Stern riggs the lottery next year for us and we land the #1 pick just to lure Lebron even more to New York.

Preludepunk27 wrote:Yes and I'm completely fine with it. Watch David Stern riggs the lottery next year for us and we land the #1 pick just to lure Lebron even more to New York.

Me too. It's just that I want to develop our young guys, not sign guys that will hinder their progress. I'm afraid with the assortment of talent we currently have, we could be looking at an 8-16 pick. The next draft falls off a cliff around the 10th.

^^^ we have 3 first round picks in the next 2 years. Personally I can't even see us using even 2 of those picks. If we get a late lottery pick next year, I can honestly see us trading all 3 up to #1 and taking the best stud available. Again, 99.9% chance it'll never happen, but with the amount of young guys on our team, I can't see us keeping more than 1 guy we actually draft over the next 2 years. Our roster would look like the Baby Bulls did only on steroids.

lets not overreact here...WOW...I too havent been sold on every move...BUT, you can see the Nets vision in putting this team together...again, we're talking about the potential at this point, how everything looks on paper...If you asked me where my major concern is...(I just hope Yi shows up to play some serious ball...)

but with Marcus, come on...you make like he was the next coming of Kidd...he did nothing spectacular here when called upon...I thought he filled in FAIR at best where he was needed...I dont really understand what there is to cry about...no offense, but he wasnt going to get the rock anyway with DH now in a Nets uni...and if you dont like Harris, he's light years ahead of Marcus in terms of a NBA career...if your not sold on this team because we dont have a TRUE pg, so to speak...you're definitely putting too much emphasis on that concept...

And lets stop talking like WE know there were other deals possible...I do believe if the Nets at this point in the summer knew or felt they could of held out for a better deal which included Marcus in a package, they damn sure would of waited on it...come on, do you really think we were that anxious to move him...I think the potential 1st round pick was thrown at us...and we said screw it, lets take it...

As many hope and see...maybe the Nets are one move away from finishing off this roster...or you dance w. the idea of Julius Hodge...I'm not a fan of Jaycee...

^^^^ I agree with prelude, but I think that this team with one more move will be set for the development over the next two years.

If we make a impressive this summer we wont be in the lottery.

I'm not high on every choice the Nets made this offseason either...

Richard Jefferson for Yi Jianlian and Bobby Simmons - Whether we get LeBron or not, this choice had to be made. RJ's contract was too much to pay and that window of opportunity had closed. I just feel we could've squeezed out a pick in this trade. Reserving judgment on Yi.

Drafting Brook Lopez - At the time, I didn't like the pick. I'm still reserving judgment.

Drafting Ryan Anderson - There were plenty of other names, including CDR. Reserving judgment.

Drafting CDR - Probably saved myself from a murder spree that evening. Reserving judgment.

Agreed

Giving Qualifying Offer To Nenad Krstic - I'd rather let him walk than take up another roster spot. Signing him also means we can't trade him until Dec. 15 if we wanted to.

I Disagree

If krstic is given playing time I honestly believe he could become that 17,7 guy he once was, instantly making him our best big. It's also a one year deal so if he doesn't become that guy we just let him walk. If he does become that guy and he'd also have more value in case we don't want to break the bank on him.

Signing Jarvis Hayes - He was needed in the backcourt. He'll probably play some 3 also. 2 year deal...fine.

Signing Eduardo Najera - ANOTHER 3. Simmons/Hayes/Hassell/Anderson/CDR. Sure he could play 4, but it's not as if we're low on that either. Not to mention this is a 4 year deal. He could be hindering our young players' development by then also, especially with Frank's weird sub patterns.

Najeras IS ANOTHER 3 but he's arguably the best out of the group. Hassell is strictly a defensive player, Hayes provides inconsistent offense and the jury's out with simmons until he proves he can play at a high level. I like Najera signing more than I do Hayes

Trading Keyon Dooling for the TE - We weren't going to sign him for the rest of the MLE (Thanks to Najera). Might as well use the TE to sign the guy we want. He could played both backcourt spots. 3 year deal with the last a small team option buyout.

Letting Boki Go - Fine by me.

Trading Marcus Williams To Golden State - I believe we traded him too early and thus, received a weird asset in return. Now we're talking about getting another 3rd string PG in the depths of Diener and Carroll.

Agreed