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I haven't been watching the games since the free preview of the League Pass ended, but from what i'm seeing in the boxscores the frontcourt is not playing well at all without Stromile Swift.

Boone is hovering around 50% field goal shooting, yet all he shoots are gimmies.... Mikki Moore shot over %60 for the Nets not too long ago, and he shot jumpshots!!!!

Yi's production seems to be disappointing. I see some comments that he is one dimensional... Does that mean that he's settling for too many perimeter shots and not being aggressive enough in attacking the paint? That's what I saw from him the first couple games.

Simmons also seems disappointing. What I saw from him the first few games was completely boring and non-aggressive offense. Isn't he capable of more than being a stand-still shooter? The team needs more from him than what he's giving them for the minutes he's getting. I think Williams should be playing in his place.

I'm not seeing a whole lot out of Lopez to make me jump up and down about him... But he looked ok from what I saw.

I agree with some other posters that Hayes has played well... but other than that the frontcourt is a gaping hole on the team without Swift and Williams getting any playing time.

rag-time4 wrote:I haven't been watching the games since the free preview of the League Pass ended, but from what i'm seeing in the boxscores the frontcourt is not playing well at all without Stromile Swift.

Boone is hovering around 50% field goal shooting, yet all he shoots are gimmies.... Mikki Moore shot over %60 for the Nets not too long ago, and he shot jumpshots!!!!

Moore led the league in field goal percentage while he was here. By this logic, Moore was the best big man in the league.

Yi's production seems to be disappointing. I see some comments that he is one dimensional... Does that mean that he's settling for too many perimeter shots and not being aggressive enough in attacking the paint? That's what I saw from him the first couple games.

But...

rag-time4 wrote:I haven't been watching the games since the free preview of the League Pass ended, but from what i'm seeing in the boxscores the frontcourt is not playing well at all without Stromile Swift.

Simmons also seems disappointing. What I saw from him the first few games was completely boring and non-aggressive offense. Isn't he capable of more than being a stand-still shooter? The team needs more from him than what he's giving them for the minutes he's getting. I think Williams should be playing in his place.

So you'd put Sean Will at the 3 even though his jumpshot is even worse than Simmons? I agree Simmons shouldn't be playing, but I'd rather have Anderson get more minutes at the 3.

I'm not seeing a whole lot out of Lopez to make me jump up and down about him... But he looked ok from what I saw.

We haven't even played 10 games. Give it time.

Rich Rane wrote:

Boone is hovering around 50% field goal shooting, yet all he shoots are gimmies.... Mikki Moore shot over %60 for the Nets not too long ago, and he shot jumpshots!!!!

Moore led the league in field goal percentage while he was here. By this logic, Moore was the best big man in the league.

Rich, can't say I understand what you're getting at here....

What I'm trying to say is that Boone is awful. All he shoots are layups, dunks, and high percentage shots around the basket, but he can only make half of them. He doesn't attempt jumpers and I didn't see him attempt to score a single time when he got the ball in the post in the first few games...

There also hasn't been consistency in his rebounding numbers. He has twice gotten double digit boards, but he's also twice gotten 3 boards.

You all bash Stromile for consistency every chance you get, but ya boy Boone isn't producing consistently at all. He has only shot over %50 two times so far.

Solid pro we got there!

And yes, I would rather see Williams play the SF position, or put Yi there and play Williams at PF. The team would be better defensively, because Williams can bring some quickness to the defense whereas Simmons has not impressed me defensively, and Williams also can provide some much needed offense in the paint, which both Yi and Simmons are not doing a good job with.

In any game I've seen Sean in this year I haven't liked him. He seems to be doing things to please himself instead of playing team basketball.

Stro's hurt right now, Najera can't play the 5, if Lopez is having a bad game (which the last hanful have) we have NOBODY but Boone to play the 5. There is no way you could tell me that Sean would do a better job defending Shaq than Josh could. Sean still hasn't progressed as much in his man defense to merit giving him more time at the 5. He's a solid help defender, but honestly, when comparing Josh and Sean, the pro's outweigh the cons in favor of Josh.

As big of a supporter of Yi that I am, he cannot play the 3. He would get torched by every small forward on defense. That locks him at the 4, because even if you don't like our front court, he's our best scoring option there. And I have NOT been disappointed by Yi this season in any way. He's got a redonkulous amount of pressure on his shoulders to perform every night. He's a 20 year old 2nd year player to boot. He's shown flashes but still learning. I don't see him ever give up when he's on the court. If we're gonna lose, I'd rather put 5 guys on the court that will play as hard as he does.

So basically, Sean will only see time at the 5 mainly, possibly at times at the 4 if we want to go big and Yi needs a blow. But add to the fact he's kind of in Frank's dog house, I don't think he deserves the time. Everyone else that's in the front court just looks like they're playing harder than him and deserve the time. It's not like we're a playoff team, play who wants it the most.

Rag-time, when your back gets healthy, I'm at the point that I'll gladly play you 20 minutes a game and just go with a front court rotation of Yi/Boone with Lopez/Rag-Time/Najera coming off the bench. Sean better not say anything else to the press or he may be wearing a suit or hanging out with the Colorado 49ers soon.

rag-time4 wrote:

Rich Rane wrote:

Boone is hovering around 50% field goal shooting, yet all he shoots are gimmies.... Mikki Moore shot over %60 for the Nets not too long ago, and he shot jumpshots!!!!

Moore led the league in field goal percentage while he was here. By this logic, Moore was the best big man in the league.

Rich, can't say I understand what you're getting at here....

What I'm trying to say is that Boone is awful. All he shoots are layups, dunks, and high percentage shots around the basket, but he can only make half of them. He doesn't attempt jumpers and I didn't see him attempt to score a single time when he got the ball in the post in the first few games...

There also hasn't been consistency in his rebounding numbers. He has twice gotten double digit boards, but he's also twice gotten 3 boards.

You all bash Stromile for consistency every chance you get, but ya boy Boone isn't producing consistently at all. He has only shot over %50 two times so far.

Solid pro we got there!

While Boone has been inconsistent, the big difference is Boone isn't an 8-year journeyman that hasn't shown any signs of stringing great games together by the opinion of multiple organizations he's played for. Not to mention Swift being hurt only throws him back further on the reserve.

And yes, I would rather see Williams play the SF position, or put Yi there and play Williams at PF. The team would be better defensively, because Williams can bring some quickness to the defense whereas Simmons has not impressed me defensively, and Williams also can provide some much needed offense in the paint, which both Yi and Simmons are not doing a good job with.

As Prelude said, Yi will get burned by other 3s in the league. I agree Sean Will should see more minutes at the 4/5, but definitely not over Lopez, Boone, or Yi.

We need to start lopez and have Boone back him up playing about 15-18 minutes per game if Brook can stay out of foul trouble. And Boone is more like a backup 4 than a 5.

Reasons:

Boone cannot board against decent rebounders with a nose for the ball. Please notice that all of Boone's boards are ones that fall in his lap when there is no one around to fight him for it. He doesn't grab boards, He taps them around. Even when he's the only guy around he grabs it near his stomach like he's a tight end coming across the middle of the field (except with bad hands).

His help D is also horrendous. He rotates slow and doesn't realize where he should be until the play has already happened. And he is not by any means a shot blocker. The blocks he managed so far this year occur when he takes advantage of players who are off balance and shooting from the waist because they are already bodied up. If someone comes straight at him, even a point guard will push him out of the picture because Boone is not a strong and physical guy. He has hollow bones or something. Brook is big and heavy and can body up most centers in this league. At the very least, while not strong, Sean can impact a shot with his length and athleticism. He just needs to figure out where to be.

He has no offense. Yeah he had a 18 point game against the pistons i think, and you think, "hey. he did it against sheed! what a promising player!" NO. He gets most of his buckets because the defense ignores him. In the pistons game, sheed was not even THINKing about boone and completely left him alone for open layups. He turned his head and had a "huh? o yeah...him..my bad" look on his face. Nobody respects his game, and no it's not because he is flying under the radar. Its because he blows.

It is unbelievable to me that this guy is the unrivaled starter for this team. I mean, fine, he gets PT. But 25 mpg with 4 other frontcourt guys that might be better than him? There is no reason for Boone to be playing more than 15 minutes a game.

I'm not gonna bring up Sean because i know he has a lotta work cut out for him. But we're rebuilding people. There is no reason that any of our young guys should be iced out. None. From what i see, Brook makes as many stupid mistakes as Sean does, but Frank goes to him consistently. I just dont see how Boone's job can be safe. It's like there's nothing the other guys can do to take those minutes.

Preludepunk27 wrote:when comparing Josh and Sean, the pro's outweigh the cons in favor of Josh.

So basically, Sean will only see time at the 5 mainly, possibly at times at the 4 if we want to go big and Yi needs a blow. But add to the fact he's kind of in Frank's dog house, I don't think he deserves the time. Everyone else that's in the front court just looks like they're playing harder than him and deserve the time. It's not like we're a playoff team, play who wants it the most.

Really? Every time i see sean, he's trying hard. Yeah he looks like he doesn't care when he's on the bench but when he gets on the floor he looks determined. It's just a matter of him giving him time to learn what the right decisions are while he's on the floor. He shoots ill advised shots because he wants to make buckets and contribute. Were they good shots? no. but you can't say he's not trying.

Also, the pros may outweigh the cons for Boone, right now in this very moment. But again, we're rebuilding. time to foster some talent and see what these players will be 2-5 years from now. My personal opinion is that Boone has more or less peaked. This is what he will be for the rest of his career. I think boone will ultimately be a journeyman backup that gets picked up cheap by teams according to their needs. That is unless nets management/coach continues to overrate this guy and god forbid, gives him a large deal. All i'm saying is that at the very least, Sean wll probably not be worse than Boone in the long run so based on perceived potential, let the guy play so we can figure him out!

EFF wrote:

Preludepunk27 wrote:when comparing Josh and Sean, the pro's outweigh the cons in favor of Josh.

So basically, Sean will only see time at the 5 mainly, possibly at times at the 4 if we want to go big and Yi needs a blow. But add to the fact he's kind of in Frank's dog house, I don't think he deserves the time. Everyone else that's in the front court just looks like they're playing harder than him and deserve the time. It's not like we're a playoff team, play who wants it the most.

Really? Every time i see sean, he's trying hard. Yeah he looks like he doesn't care when he's on the bench but when he gets on the floor he looks determined. It's just a matter of him giving him time to learn what the right decisions are while he's on the floor. He shoots ill advised shots because he wants to make buckets and contribute. Were they good shots? no. but you can't say he's not trying.

Also, the pros may outweigh the cons for Boone, right now in this very moment. But again, we're rebuilding. time to foster some talent and see what these players will be 2-5 years from now. My personal opinion is that Boone has more or less peaked. This is what he will be for the rest of his career. I think boone will ultimately be a journeyman backup that gets picked up cheap by teams according to their needs. That is unless nets management/coach continues to overrate this guy and god forbid, gives him a large deal. All i'm saying is that at the very least, Sean wll probably not be worse than Boone in the long run so based on perceived potential, let the guy play so we can figure him out!

There is another side to that though. What you could see as "trying hard," others could interpret as "looking out for number 1." I've counted 6 times where it looks like he almost intentionally tried to steal rebounds from teammates ala Marcus Camby in the 30 minutes he's played this season. 2 sides to every story. I just picked the opposite view of yours.

I really think this has more to do with Sean being in their doghouse then our reluctancy to playing him at this point. I just read this morning that when the press went into the locker room after last nights game, "someone" had ripped Sean's name off his locker. All this high school drama going on with him, added to the fact guys that don't have as much potential as he does are getting more playing time because they're trying as hard as they can, isn't helping his cause. Sean either needs to ship up or ask us to ship him out to the highest bidder and we'll wish him the best of luck.

yeah i mean. i don't know why he would be in the doghouse already unless it's something personal between him and frank. I guess he could also be just looking out for himself, but it's not like he's getting many minutes to do it. 4 points and 3 rebounds a game doesn't make for a very impressive resume. Besides, i'd rather have a guy who tries to own the board he goes after than a guy who hands them out.

Also, I did see him cheering on the sideline when someone takes a shot so it at least looks like he's engaged. I just dont think any of these things are enough to justify benching him the way he has been benched so far.

rag-time4 wrote:I haven't been watching the games since the free preview of the League Pass ended, but from what i'm seeing in the boxscores the frontcourt is not playing well at all without Stromile Swift.

So does Ryan Anderson look like Larry Bird to you, then?

7 games in, a young team is struggling. How is this not national news?

....cause our front court played so well with him and his 6 minutes a game last year.

Stro ice that back and help us out!

Honestly. I always rooted for Stro. But at this point, i think we are way past this guy. We should just ship him out and get rid of his contract. We are rebuilding now and i dont see how stro fits because he is not a leader and an accomplished veteran. In a lot of ways he is still stuck in the same stage of his career as a lot of these rooks. Ton of talent but he still hasn't proven himself to be a respectable player in this league. And in a team which is rebuilding, the young guys take priority over a guy everyone has given up on. Don't get me wrong, I have always wanted stro on the nets even with all his problems, but this is different situation. When we were in win-now mode with kidd, i would've loved him, but he's pretty much obsolete now.

Prelude, I dont know how you can say the guy is looking out for himself.

This is the guy that told Frank to star Lopez over him.

I honestly think that Frank doesnt know how to use the guy. Kmart, though more talented, was awkward too. He had skinny legs with no low post game. Heart like a lion, but awkward. Kmart was successful because he was part of the system. Frank hasnt incorporated any of the bigs, maybe besides Yi, in the offensive system. Frank hardly has plays for Lopez. How does your only low post big man only get 2 touches in a game? Boone doesnt really ave any Pick and Roll plays. No structured plays for SWAT at all. I am not saying he should be the main part of the play. I am talking about Pick and Rolls to the basket or Back door cuts to the rim. I even think sometimes Yi doenst have plays too. It is all about Gs and SFs. The Bigs just ge the leftovers, if a play gets botched then give it to the Bigs.

All honesty, I hope we lose more games where Frank totally F's up and Thorn and Kiki have to look into a coaching change. I cant take Frank anymore.

I'm going to make this very clear: Stromile Swift is awful.

The team is losing because it is a bad team. Giving more time to a bad player with no upside would not help matters. You can stop making threads about him.

I would love for frank to be fired but i think the whole rebuilding rookie team thing will be enough of an excuse. They will use that to cover his ass for years to come.

Yeah but the bigs are clearly not getting any direction from coaching. Just watch them. They have no idea where to be or where to go. Frank just throws them in there saying "just follow vince's lead."

S.I.C. GM wrote:Prelude, I dont know how you can say the guy is looking out for himself.

This is the guy that told Frank to star Lopez over him.

I honestly think that Frank doesnt know how to use the guy. Kmart, though more talented, was awkward too. He had skinny legs with no low post game. Heart like a lion, but awkward. Kmart was successful because he was part of the system. Frank hasnt incorporated any of the bigs, maybe besides Yi, in the offensive system. Frank hardly has plays for Lopez. How does your only low post big man only get 2 touches in a game? Boone doesnt really ave any Pick and Roll plays. No structured plays for SWAT at all. I am not saying he should be the main part of the play. I am talking about Pick and Rolls to the basket or Back door cuts to the rim. I even think sometimes Yi doenst have plays too. It is all about Gs and SFs. The Bigs just ge the leftovers, if a play gets botched then give it to the Bigs.

All honesty, I hope we lose more games where Frank totally F's up and Thorn and Kiki have to look into a coaching change. I cant take Frank anymore.

Again, lets take a look at the other side of this. Yes, Sean said to play Brook over him. We don't know the whole conversation or what he was thinking though. We hear he was for the team concept. That Brook needed the time. How do we know he wasn't getting annoyed at that point already. He may have seen the writing on the wall, starting the day we drafted 2 PF and traded for another. He may have passed up the start as an act of defiance.

I'm sorry with all my devil's advocates as of late. I'm getting into law school mode. Nonetheless, I see Sean is a different light I guess.

Speaking of our front court: I just want to entertain the thought of starting Brook tomorrow while Boone his twisted his ankle last night.

I used to think that Brook is better off breaking in playing against 2nd string centers for a half a season to become more seasoned before starting. But I've noticed that when he enters the game, the 4 other teammates he would be playing with are different from quarter to quarter, sometimes from minute to minute. Sometimes the teamwork was good, but often it was almost like a pickup game. So the minutes he's getting has not been quality learning minutes. If he starts playing with the starters, he would play with the same 4 guys most of the time. The teamwork is better. He'll learn faster playing with Vince and Devin. I think he'll play better immediately in that situation, and certainly will develop much faster this way.

Boone may have given us an excuse to start Brook. But even if we don't have this excuse, I still think the team will be better faster this way. Boone is a good sport and will be our valuable backup center.

I haven't been impressed with Yi... He is settling too much and not getting to the foul line as much as he needs to, but I agree with those who have said that Lopez should be starting over Boone.

I think that both Boone and Simmons have failed to earn their place in the starting lineup...

Eff, I hear you on Swift, but I still maintain that he's the best big man on the team. If given a real chance I think he would win you over, and maybe some of the more hardcore doubters.

It's true that it's a young frontcourt right now, but at 2-5 I think it's fair to start questioning the coach as to whether the team is better than its record and is being held back by the coach's choice of lineups.

Man... If only Yi and Boone could play more like Stromile Swift.

Wow. The 1st paragraph of this thread was such a pick me up.

I LOLed.