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What Do You Think Rod Has Up His Sleeve?

Posted: Mon Dec 1, 2008 6:37 am
by vincecarter4pres
So I was thinking, this team looks good.
I mean, like one big move and we're contenders again, good.
I mean a few small moves and we're pretender contenders again, good.

There has been a lot of talk about trades, even by Rod in the media, just not who we were really targeting or shipping out.

So basically I figured I would start a thread whose purpose is to see what other fans think we need and who we should go after, and also and more importantly, who you really believe Rod is going to go after, even if you aren't personally a fan of that player.

Small moves, blockbusters, whatever you think might go down and what you want to go down.

Who do you think (realistically) will become available that we may have an honest shot at and what do you think it will take to get that player (again honestly and realistically) and what or who will Rod and Kiki be willing to give up or not give up?

Re: What Do You Think Rod Has Up His Sleeve?

Posted: Mon Dec 1, 2008 8:28 am
by jeff1624
Bobby Simmons
Stromile Swift
Sean Williams
2009 first rounder (lottery protected)

for

Shawn Marion

Miami gets a young C prospect, a player capable of starting at the 5 in swift and a first rounder.

We get rid of simmons and replace him with Marion...

Lopes
Yi
Marion
Carter
Harris

Re: What Do You Think Rod Has Up His Sleeve?

Posted: Mon Dec 1, 2008 11:57 am
by Da big3
jeff1624 wrote:Bobby Simmons
Stromile Swift
Sean Williams
2009 first rounder (lottery protected)

for

Shawn Marion

Miami gets a young C prospect, a player capable of starting at the 5 in swift and a first rounder.

We get rid of simmons and replace him with Marion...

Lopes
Yi
Marion
Carter
Harris


we are over giving, takeout the 09 draft pick or SWAT, other than that good trade tho...

Re: What Do You Think Rod Has Up His Sleeve?

Posted: Mon Dec 1, 2008 1:29 pm
by Preludepunk27
Yeah I'd send feelers out for Marion. I wonder what Pat Reilly would want from us. I still would love to target Gerald Wallace. He's a great defender and likes to attack the basket, but doesn't need the ball in his hands like RJ did so I think Gerald and Vince would mesh a lot better.

We really need to split this thread into 2 categories:

1. Player(s) you would like to potentially (and realistically) acquire that wouldn't hurt the 2010 cap room (i.e. expire after this season or next season).

2. Player(s) you would like to potentially (and realistically) acquire that would dip into the 2010 cap room. This would mean we then go with the team we got, extend who we need to extend with the time comes and basically keep this team intact for few years. This could also mean taking on a long term salary that would basically spell out "We will trade Vince at some point by the trade deadline in the 09-10 season for the best expiring/young player package we could get."

Honestly, my two guys I'd push for are Gerald and AK47. Love them both on both sides of the court because they don't demand the ball in their hands. This keeps the #1 scoring option happy and as long as both these guys feel appreciated, they seem to be happy.

Still though, Marion would be awesome as a one year rental. I'd be open to resigning him too after the season ended cause he's better than Gerald and AK47, but I don't think we'll have the money to do that. Well scratch that...we would if we moved Vince. I don't know. I still think we should be shopping the hell out of Vince, but I don't want to do a "mail it in" trade which tanks the rest of the season. If we could land a guy that will keep us quasi-competitive plus nabbing a young player, I'd rock it in a second.

I really am completely clueless on what Rod is thinking now because, even though Rod and Kiki and everyone else in the organization is saying they knew our team was better than the critics were saying, I'm pretty sure they're surprised we're 2 games over .500 right now.

Re: What Do You Think Rod Has Up His Sleeve?

Posted: Mon Dec 1, 2008 2:08 pm
by jeff1624
Da big3 wrote:
jeff1624 wrote:Bobby Simmons
Stromile Swift
Sean Williams
2009 first rounder (lottery protected)

for

Shawn Marion

Miami gets a young C prospect, a player capable of starting at the 5 in swift and a first rounder.

We get rid of simmons and replace him with Marion...

Lopes
Yi
Marion
Carter
Harris


we are over giving, takeout the 09 draft pick or SWAT, other than that good trade tho...



How are we over giving??

Sean is trash compared to other big men prospects. They're basically paying 9 million more(simmons contract next year) for sean and a pick. If anything they're not getting enough back.

Re: What Do You Think Rod Has Up His Sleeve?

Posted: Mon Dec 1, 2008 6:51 pm
by vincecarter4pres
That trade does not get Marion.


And Prelude, why in the hell would you want to swap VC for Crash or AK?!
I think not.
That is what you would be doing if you trade for one of these guys, because VC would be good as gone the following season more than likely.
They are both decent options, but not guys that make us literally title caliber, so I fail to see the point.
And why would you want to shop VC at all?!

I don't get it.

BTW, i don't like the idea of adding Marion at all.
He doesn't seem to care that much about winning, he cares more about a pay day and being the man and the #1 guy, which is just jaded, because that is not the type of player he really is.
He is not worth resigning for more then 3-4 years and isn't worth more than 7-8 mill a year and he is going to be looking for more than that.

Re: What Do You Think Rod Has Up His Sleeve?

Posted: Mon Dec 1, 2008 7:34 pm
by deviljets7
vincecarter4pres wrote:BTW, i don't like the idea of adding Marion at all.
He doesn't seem to care that much about winning, he cares more about a pay day and being the man and the #1 guy, which is just jaded, because that is not the type of player he really is.
He is not worth resigning for more then 3-4 years and isn't worth more than 7-8 mill a year and he is going to be looking for more than that.


Forget about signing Marion. In the hypothetical trade (which is brutal for Miami), if you let Marion walk, the Nets would have like $13 million in cap space this upcoming summer (Carlos Boozer?)

Re: What Do You Think Rod Has Up His Sleeve?

Posted: Mon Dec 1, 2008 7:42 pm
by vincecarter4pres
I apologize for the long post in advance. With that out of the way...............
A few guys I am hoping become available and Rod targets if they are within reason:

Rasheed Wallace - exactly what we need in my opinion. I know he's getting up there in age. I know he can be somewhat of a distraction and disruption on the court. I know he is a UFA this offseason, but he should resign for a fair deal for maybe 2 years with a 3rd year team option.
He plays great defense, he rebounds when it counts, he can stretch defenses and post up, he is an able and willing passer.
He still will not disrupt the offense much, he doesn't need a lot of shots or touches to be effective.
He is a winner, flatout.

Amare Stoudamire - Well, he might be available, I just don't think we have the package to get him without giving up Brook and even then he is a long shot compared to the better packages that teams around the league can offer.
He also needs a lot of touches and does not play good defense.
That said, it is Amare.

Dirk - I kid. Dallas will never deal with us again.

Boozer - Is he worth the risk? He can bolt next year. He also seems to be injured a lot. Not the greatest defender. An absolute beast on the boards, hell of a passer, awesome post game and he is still young.
What wwould it take to get him? If he is available does that mean he is definitely going to bolt?
Does he care more about money than the game?

Emeka Okafor - He is a great defensive player and a hell of a rebounder. His offensive game is hot trash though, but than again, he won't disrupt the current style of offense.
But, he is always getting hurt and he might cost too much to get.
Is he worth the contract he is signed to?
Will he be worth the chance of stunting Yi's growth?

KMart - Man, his contract is capital F, Fugly. He has been hurt a lot and he is getting up there in age. But man, when he is healthy, like he currently is, he is a beast. He goes so much beyond his stat and those aren't bad. He has a true team 1st, love for the game attitude and a winners mentality. Beast on the boards, a defensive monster, man to man or weakside and a great passer for a big man. He can still get out and run and he doesn't need plays ran for him.
That said, is he the guy that is worth taking a risk like this on again. We wold all love him back, idealistically, but is he realistic.
If Denver decided to trade him, he would probably come on the cheap.

There are alot of smaller name guys as well.
I'll get into them a little later.

Re: What Do You Think Rod Has Up His Sleeve?

Posted: Mon Dec 1, 2008 8:16 pm
by Preludepunk27
vincecarter4pres wrote:That trade does not get Marion.


And Prelude, why in the hell would you want to swap VC for Crash or AK?!
I think not.
That is what you would be doing if you trade for one of these guys, because VC would be good as gone the following season more than likely.
They are both decent options, but not guys that make us literally title caliber, so I fail to see the point.
And why would you want to shop VC at all?!


I don't get it.

BTW, i don't like the idea of adding Marion at all.
He doesn't seem to care that much about winning, he cares more about a pay day and being the man and the #1 guy, which is just jaded, because that is not the type of player he really is.
He is not worth resigning for more then 3-4 years and isn't worth more than 7-8 mill a year and he is going to be looking for more than that.


Reread my post. I say NOTHING about a VC for Crash or AK swap. What I DID say was acquiring a player that would cut into cap room, THEN we can go with the team we would have (Harris/Vince/Trade/Yi/Lopez) and extend all our young guys to lock this team up for the longer term OR after we acquire this new player, shop Vince at the trade deadline of next season for an expiring/young player.

That second part with moving Vince was totally hypothetical and would only be something to think about if we still wanted to go after a 2010 FA and had already acquired someone that cut into the cap room.

I never mentioned trading Vince for either player. Anything involving Vince was implied that he'd be moved after we had already took on a long term contract.

Re: What Do You Think Rod Has Up His Sleeve?

Posted: Mon Dec 1, 2008 10:33 pm
by vincecarter4pres
I know you didn't say trade VC for AK or Crash, i am just saying that if we did trade for one of those 2 guys, especially AK, we would more than likely look to move Vince next season unless we literally went to the Finals this year, because the salaries will mess with the cap room and we won't be accomplishing anything again.
So my point is, why would you rather have AK or Crash then VC?

Re: What Do You Think Rod Has Up His Sleeve?

Posted: Tue Dec 2, 2008 7:03 am
by vincecarter4pres
Alright, so now I will move on to the lower profile guys that I am hoping Rod has on his radar and hopefully are attainable within reason.
Again, I apologize in advance for the long post :wink:

Travis Outlaw - Now I have said on numerous occasions, especially on the trade board, that other Nets fans and myself aren't exceptionally interested in this guy, but that was mainly if he was the centerpiece of a VC trade, plus I am starting to come around on this guy a little more.
He's long and athletic, a slasher or a shooter, with a nasty 3 ball, he is decent at taking his man off the dribble, but does tend to take a few too many jumpers. He can play the 4 or the 3, but is more of a SF. His defense is very good, rebounding is a litlle sub par, but he is a good energy guy.
Could start, but is very comfortable playing big minutes off the bench.
Is still young and has room for improvement and the desire too, his increase in long range shooting is a testament to that. Just turned 24 this September.

Martell Webster - A shooter, plain and simple. Off the dribble or spot up. Still doesn't shoot and exceptionally good %. Good rebounder for his size and position. 6'7, 230 as a SG or SF, but still very quick. He is young and locked up for 4 years at 5 a year. Is only 22, but doesn't have a ton of upside left, but still does have a lot of room for improvement. Decent defender, but even most PDX fans will tell you his defense is overrated. Could easily be the odd man out in Blazerland.

Udonis Haslem - A little short for a PF, but can even play some minutes at the 5. Very good rebounder. Solid defender, but doesn't rack up many blocks or steals. Nice mid range jumper, a little post game. Only 28, so he is still in his prime. Will gladly play his role, wants to win. Low TO's.
Very solid overall player and glue guy.

Marquis Daniels - This guy can do it all, well except consistently shoot the 3. Rebounds, scores, can run the point for spot minutes, but is a SG/SF. Decent defender. It seems like he is 2 short in one category for a triple double everytime you see the box score. He is still young and in his prime and is signed to a decent contract that is up right in time for FAs. When Dunleavy comes back, is he available on the cheap?

Tayshaun Prince - Do I have to describe this guy? What doesn't he do well? He can shoot the ball with the best of them from deep, he is a monster defender, a solid rebounder, can finish in the lane, runs the floor, can easily be a point forward type, is a great teammate and lockerroom guy, will play his role, whatever that may be, is signed to a decent contract and is in his prime.
That said, even if they are going to rebuild, will Joe D look to trade him? Even if he does, what would he want for him? I could see him seemlessly being integrated into this lineup and being a big time impact player.

Andres Nocioni - Solid all around player. Good defender, albeit overrated. Plays with a fire and passion. Can nail the 3 ball and spread the D, has a panache for drawing fouls in key situations, solid rebounder, still in his prime, just turned 29, a little overpaid. Tends to really piss off opposing players. Can make a good impact in big games. Definitely can come on the cheap.

Morris Peterson - OK. He can nail the 3, from New Orleans, when he's playing in New York. Decent defender, sometimes. That said, he doesn't do much else very well. He can still get out and run the break, but do not ask him to create his own shot off the dribble in the half court. Him and VC are very good friends, to bad that doesn't count for anything. Anyway, his contract is rather bloated for what he does and he is getting up there in age. So why would we want him? Well, he's a much better option thatn Bobby Simmons, doesn't need huge minutes and won't disrupt anything, whether that's helping us win or developing the young guys. He should come on the cheap, but we would have to send something to help NO now, because caprroom is not their goal.
Might be able to get him for Dooling and Hassell if we had another trade for a PG lined up, or if we wanted to take Mike James for Swift.

Sergio Rodriguez - Another move that is for the future and the present. Young and talented and possibly available, but for who? He has a nice assist to TO ratio and is definitely a pass 1st PG, which is a nice contrast to Devin off the bench and even to play alongside him for maybe 6 minutes a game. His shot from 3 is improving as is his entire game, quarter by quarter. His defense is seriously suspect. Can drive and dish, for sure. Surely will not be confused with a rebounding PG.
Maybe available for a straight up swap for Boone? One can hope.

Acie Law - He was a lotto pick just last year, so if he is even available I don't think that he is going to come as cheap as some would hop or like, for what he has accomplished and/or shown thus far.
That said, he is young, has great size for a PG, is pass 1st, starting to shoot better and overall has a lot, I mean a lot of potential. The Hawks probably won't even entertain trades for him till midseason at least, when they have decided what they will do with Bibby.
If he is available, at what cost and will Opie give him any minutes?

Jarrett Jack - Solid overall PG. Can pass, score, is lightening quick and has nice size and strength. Still very young, but probably has shown what he does and what he will be. That said, he is a very legit backup. Can hit the long ball, too. Will Indianna have any desire to trade him with TJ Ford on the roster and the fact they have big expectations for this season and he plays major minutes for them?

Mike Conley Jr. - Was a lotto pick just 2 years ago, but hasn't shown much. Still has the potential thing going for him in reality and with quotation marks. Probably will cost too much, but not necassarily, considering the rumors, even if started by Memphis of him for Outlaw, with PDX turning the deal down. is he even worth something like Dooling, Boone and possibly a heavily prtotected pick or a 2nd rounder, especially considering he will never start with Devin here?

Hakim Warrick - Could be on the block. Nice combo forward, who is really a PF. Is very long and athletic and can get out and run the break. He has post game and a decent jumper. Good defensive player and although skinny is pretty strong. Solid rebounder. Can come very cheap if he is on the block. A much better option than Swift, Swat or Najera at the 4 IMO, but he cannot play the 5, which the 1st two can.

Kyle Lowery - I have a feeling he is not available, but he is an effective back up PG who is very strong, if not very short. Nice option to have off the bench. Deserves about 15-20 mpg, does he get that here?

Javaris Crittenton - I don't know that he is available, but he is absolutley buried behind Gay Mayo.
I'll be honest, I don't know much about this guy, in the pros or college and would love for someone to give a profile of him if they really know his game.
Was rumored to be a PG when he came to Memphis from LA, but is now said to be a 2 slash 3. He is 6'5, so I guess, at least height wise he could play any of the three positions.
Would he come cheap?

Well, a long list and very long post, this literally took me over a half hour, anyway, I'm done.