Vince Carter: Justified or Overreaction?

[Chris Morris]

We're trying to make the playoffs here - cut that **** out.

That is all.

[Birth of the Cool]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rXXpoouh38

uh huh. It's Vince's fault that the Ref t'd him up twice in a matter of what...3 seconds ? because you know Vince has a well known history for being demonstrative towards the Refs...

Maybe the Ref should cut that *** out & realize that people aren't there to watch them in their muscle shirts (as Michael Jordan complained many years ago). Good way to even up the talent level though...

I'm just glad Vince shows some passion this year. Him & Hayes are the only one's who consistently look like they give a damn. This team would do well to stop taking crap and showing more fire...unless they are fooling themselves thinking they can win by talent alone. It's not like Vince get's T'd left right & center...you'd think fans would give him the benefit.

[jerseyjac]

I hope he hears you loud and clear Chris, its unacceptable and I was definitely disappointed...as bad as it seems, regardless of the situation, sometimes you have to just back off...the refs give more than your chance to get what want to say in whether at them or at another player...then you need to obviously drop it...dont get in their facess...

but as Birth stated his intensity has been at probably an all time high...once a year type thing...just very frustrating...

[vincecarter4pres]

It happened so quick, I was watching and then I see him getting tossed, I was like, "WTF?".

That was a truly winnable game if Vince played, that one hurts.

I am gonna go maybe 50/50 with the blame, 60/40 max.

VC needed to control himself, but what did he do that was so wrong that warranted tossing him that quick?

Seems like that ref caught a case of the "I don't feel like working on New Year's Eve so I am going to take over the game and pretend I am Joey Crawford".

[ecuhus1981]

Apparently, the ref called Vince a not-so-nice name. Devin mentioned that this happened, but qualified the statement like, 'but I heard that second-hand", or something.

I hope the league reviews this referee's actions, because if he is taunting players then he should be suspended.

[Rockice_8]

That was a quick second T. Unless VC said something that was totally out of line (I haven't heard that) there was no way that second T was warrented. One good thing that came from that was Lopez got more touches in the post, with Harris struggling a bit Lopez picked up the slack and made the most out of his touches. Not exactly the right thread but OPEN YOUR EYES FRANK we have another option besides pick and rolls with Harris and Carter. I hate seeing Lopez with like 9 and 8 just knowing that he got most of that on second chance points. I know he's just a rook and he does struggle at times in the post but when he's playin well feed him the ball.

[Preludepunk27]

Yeah it's on the front of RealGM that the league is looking into it because they thought it was odd too. It says that people are saying Vince went off because the ref called him "boy." If this is true, I'm hoping the ref gets suspended for a game. I don't think much more could be done though.

We'll see what happens though.

[Chris Morris]

Could someone enlighten me as to why one black man calling another black man "boy" could possibly be offensive?

[mack69]

For African-Americans the term "Boy " is a demeaning term. Not as a strong as the "N" word but in the ballpark.

Regardless who say it!!!!!!!!!!

[BubbaTee]

Could someone enlighten me as to why one black man calling another black man "boy" could possibly be offensive?

Black people can be racist too.

[Chris Morris]

Regardless who say it!!!!!!!!!!

Black people can be racist too.

Not in this case. The term "boy" is all about context. In the context of one black man saying it to another, I couldn't imagine why it would be offensive.

[GetADealDone]

Come on Vince! Grow up....boy!

Young african americans call each other 'dogs' or 'dawgs' and drop the 'N' word and then object to this?

Stop acting like a 'boy' and act like a man and Derrick Stafford or anyone might not have to address you with the way you act.

It was a simple call...the ref made and you snapped! Stop acting like a 'boy' there are other young kids watching this!

Know your role!!!

An NBA referee has expressed regret on the situation, yet you copy his actions to try and make into a joke. Pick up a history book and read or hell...talk to some black people and you might have some sort of clue on what made Vince Carter snap, regardless of the ethnicity of the ref.

It's one thing to not be knowledgeable on the situation and wanting to learn, but it's another to be ignorant and put it out on display. I will not request to throw you out of the game like Stafford did to Carter. I'll do a small step above what the NBA has done and give you a warning. DO NOT DO THIS AGAIN.

- Rich Rane and jerseyjac

[vincecarter4pres]

Come on Vince! Grow up....boy!

Young african americans call each other 'dogs' or 'dawgs' and drop the 'N' word and then object to this?

Stop acting like a 'boy' and act like a man and Derrick Stafford or anyone might not have to address you with the way you act.

It was a simple call...the ref made and you snapped! Stop acting like a 'boy' there are other young kids watching this!

Know your role!!!

I don't agree with this.
Players are always aloud to act up after a bad call, etc, it just winds up with them getting a technical.
There was no reason for him to get tossed that quick unless he literally said something like ,"I am going to kill your mom. I had sex with your wife last night and she loved it. Your sister has Down's syndrome and craps her pants at the supermarket."
I am not even trying to be funny, I am being serious.
There are nemuerous times every single game when you hear guys like Rasheed, KG, even Kobe and the likes of Brad Miller dropping the F bomb and other unpleasantries directly at the refs and AT WORST they get a single tech.
Maybe VC did say something like that.
And how the word dog compares to n****r or even n***a doesn't make any sense to me.
There are numerous instances when one black man calling another boy or n****r can be absolutely heinous.
It's not like a black man calling another n***a. If you end it with the letter A, it's the same as a black person calling another motherf****r or b***h.
When ended with the letter R or using the word boy, it is like he is speaking down on the other man in a tone of being a higher person, whose existence is worth more than the other.
Kind of like a head slave giving orders to a house n****r in slavery times, or like a jail warden talking to a non respected disruptive prisoner.

Basically you are trying to be ironically funny with your play on words racist undertones and it's pretty obvious you're not entirely joking.

[Chris Morris]

JJ and Rich - There was no need to re-title my thread.

This may sound strange or insensitive - but could a black person on this board please shed some light on why Vince might have taken offense to this considering that Derrick Stafford is black?

[Rich Rane]

JJ and Rich - There was no need to re-title my thread.

I retitled the thread. It draws more open discussion than a titled thread called "ATTN: VINCE CARTER". It's nothing against you.

This may sound strange or insensitive - but could a black person on this board please shed some light on why Vince might have taken offense to this considering that Derrick Stafford is black?

I'm not a black man, but anyone could tell you there are cases of people being ashamed of their own ethnicity. There are names an ethnicity should never call another ethnicity, and hell, there are names men should never call other men who aren't friends. "Boy" is one of them. Stafford's words had the sole purpose of demeaning Carter. No question.

[Chris Morris]

There are numerous instances when one black man calling another boy or n****r can be absolutely heinous.

Let's get something straight here. "****" is the most vitriolic word in the english language, regardless of who says it. Nothing else comes close. If Derrick Stafford called Vince Carter a "****", he would be applying to referee JUCO games as we speak.

"Boy", when used as a term of degredation from one black person to another, doesn't usually carry a whole lot of significance. My best guess is that Stafford was just speaking down to Vince.

In an emotional moment, I could see myself forgetting about the racial connotation that the word "boy" holds and using it to address someone who is twenty years my junior. On the other side, even though things were heated, its very hard to excuse the way Vince reacted. Yes, Vince was frustrated, but I can't understand him losing sight of the fact that Stafford is also black, no matter how angry he was.

[vincecarter4pres]

How badly did he over react?!

I don't get what he did that warranted him getting tossed so quickly.

Did he deserve a tech?
Most certainly.

But instantly tossing him?

Boy can be just as bad as the N word.

It all depends on context, pronunciation, over all tone, etc.

If Stafford said "boy" to VC, I am going to assume he wasn't inferring their age difference.

What matters that they are both black?

That almost makes it worse.

If a black guy called me white trash, cracker or honkey as a true insult, I would look at it as more heat of the moment, inherit subliminal racist undertone then as if another white person called me the same thing.
I am not a racist or a bigot personally, but older family members of mine and older people from bosses, to pocker buddies, etc that you have grown up around sometimes are, especially because of the times they grew up in.
Sometimes we all have racist tendencies that surface because of this, especially in the heat of the moment, even if we don't truly believe in these principles. They are inherint, you know taught to you as you are young and impressionable and as you grow up, if you are smart and open minded, you realise these things were terrible, wrong and useless and therefore you consciencely lose them.
But there are still always the slight lingering subliminals that you will always have, along with the stereotype tie ins that have slightly remained, especially because in every race and ethnicity a lot of stereo types actually have some basis of truth, just not nearly as exxagerated as those that love to preech them lead you to believe.
So, when a black, or even just non-white person calls me a deragotary racial slur, I tend to blow it off as more of an inherit thing he may not even believe in and him/her just trying to be as vulgar, hurtful, disrespectful and insulting as possible.
When another white person calls me a racial slur of our own race as an insult, I percieve it as more thought out and understanding of the true meaning of the word and a more literall translation of the slur, said for it's true meaning.
understand what I was going for now?

[Chris Morris]

If Stafford said "boy" to VC, I am going to assume he wasn't inferring their age difference.

What matters that they are both black?

That almost makes it worse.

If a black guy called me white trash, cracker or honkey as a true insult
When another white person calls me a racial slur of our own race as an insult, I percieve it as more thought out and understanding of the true meaning of the word and a more literall translation of the slur, said for it's true meaning.

1. I think he was referring to their age difference. So does the NBA.

"Derrick Stafford expressed regret for the use of the term boy. But we are (convinced) he did not mean it in a derogatory fashion,'' NBA Senior VP Brian McIntyre said.

2. No, it does not make it worse that Derrick is black. That's terribly illogical. Furthermore, you have never been called a "cracker" or "honky" by a white person.

[Chris Morris]

Has anyone stumbled across a clip of the ejection where you can hear the audio from the floor?

On NBA-TV, the woman doing the highlight reel said "Vince gets two technical fouls for barking at the referee." Did she mean that literally? My friend pointed out that Vince's historically-black fraternity, Omega Psi Phi, is known for barking at people. If Vince was literally barking, this might give us a better indication of what was behind Stafford's use of the word "boy."

[Chris Morris]

I retitled the thread. It draws more open discussion than a titled thread called "ATTN: VINCE CARTER". It's nothing against you.

That's great and all, but that's not what I titled this thread. If my original title was inappropriate, then I could understand. I'm not terribly angry about it, but you're definitely overreaching when you do something like that.

I'm not a black man, but anyone could tell you there are cases of people being ashamed of their own ethnicity. There are names an ethnicity should never call another ethnicity, and hell, there are names men should never call other men who aren't friends. "Boy" is one of them. Stafford's words had the sole purpose of demeaning Carter. No question.

Agreed - That's why I'm trying to look into the barking thing. If that's what went down, then I propose we refer to Mr. Stafford as Uncle Ruckus from this point forward.