Revisting the RJ-Yi trade

superLuigi21 · Post #1 » by **superLuigi21** » Sun Jan 4, 2009 4:08 am

Where do you guys think we would we be if we didnt make the RJ trade? Top 4 in the east? Legit contenders? we would have a legit 3rd go to guy who can also play solid defense. we wouldnt be stuck w/a mediocre, inconsistent duo of yi and simmons. i hate to revisit this when im sure it was talked about like crazy back in the summer, but i wish they waited til after the draft when we picked up a better, more promising big man to develop in brook. i'd start boone at the 4 w/those other 4 guys (for hustle plays, rebounds and picks), play dooling/hayes big minutes off the bench to back up our 3 wing players, and najera/swift/Swilliams/anderson as necessary up front. especially w/brooklyn and lebron looking less likely, isnt this a better situation than praying for lebron?? thoughts?

NetsForce · Post #2 » by **NetsForce** » Sun Jan 4, 2009 4:22 am

The team would be worse because Jefferson has become a ball-stopper lately... Don't get me wrong I still like RJ but he was demanding way too many touches on offense and wasn't playing the defense he used to a few years ago.

superLuigi21 · Post #3 » by **superLuigi21** » Sun Jan 4, 2009 4:40 am

idk, i think RJ just realized the team wasnt going anywhere and decided to get his scoring #'s. we can't forget the games he was putting together when we were competive. there was probly something deeper there, such as a certain starter who was sulking, therefore sucking the life out of the team? RJ was a good scorer and defender, and seemed to be a good teamate who was unselfish prior to the team sucking... its all speculation, but we wouldve been damn good

vincecarter4pres · Post #4 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Sun Jan 4, 2009 4:54 am

Nothing deep about it.

He has become a non rebounding, semi-defense playing second tier scorer that doesn't like to pass nearly as much as he used to.

We would be about the same with him with much higher expectations.

I was and still am a big RJ fan, but he was not the answer.

I am still not big on the exact trade we did though.

NetsForce · Post #5 » by **NetsForce** » Sun Jan 4, 2009 5:00 am

RJ wasn't playing defense last year the statistics don't lie, and if you look at his play on the Bucks you see more of what I was talking about. Both the team and RJ needed change, too bad for RJ he wasn't sent to a team that was the best fit for him.

As I said before Jefferson is still one of my favorite Nets players of all time but he needed to be moved...

superLuigi21 · Post #6 » by **superLuigi21** » Sun Jan 4, 2009 6:41 am

to be honest i havent seen RJ play once this year outside of on 2k9.. bottom line is, it's not like he couldnt do all the things needed to win such as defend well, rebound, and pass, he just seemed to not be interested in doing those things. put him on a good team and i think hes back to his old self. this yrs nets team couldve been that team, we upgraded at pg and center, while still needing someone who can score in bunches

halfHAVOC · Post #7 » by **halfHAVOC** » Sun Jan 4, 2009 5:18 pm

funny to hear everyone turn their back on RJ so suddenly, last year was a bad year and he had to score, what other scoring options were there besides him and vince?

we sure as hell would be better off with RJ than yi and simmons, could start a legit 4 to GRAB SOME BOARDS! playing alongside lopez , and then u have 3 offensive players on the floor at the same time

if anything you could put RJ With the 2nd unit (instead of getting vince tired), so you have dooling, RJ, hayes - backup - boone , and he could get alot of his scoring done there.

but once again, the nets still need a POWER FORWARD , yi isn't the answer so either way the nets would be within the same range, tho i think wed be better in the playoffs with RJ and maybe a 5 seed. The problem wasn't RJ, the problem was we didn't have a power forward, and we still dont. tho the positive is we have a center that can put up some points and actually post up.

vincecarter4pres · Post #8 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Sun Jan 4, 2009 9:11 pm

halfHAVOC wrote:funny to hear everyone turn their back on RJ so suddenly, last year was a bad year and he had to score, what other scoring options were there besides him and vince?

we sure as hell would be better off with RJ than yi and simmons, could start a legit 4 to GRAB SOME BOARDS! playing alongside lopez , and then u have 3 offensive players on the floor at the same time

if anything you could put RJ With the 2nd unit (instead of getting vince tired), so you have dooling, RJ, hayes - backup - boone , and he could get alot of his scoring done there.

but once again, the nets still need a POWER FORWARD , yi isn't the answer so either way the nets would be within the same range, tho i think wed be better in the playoffs with RJ and maybe a 5 seed. The problem wasn't RJ, the problem was we didn't have a power forward, and we still dont. tho the positive is we have a center that can put up some points and actually post up.

I do not think anyone is turning their backs in RJ.
Me personally, I wanted him traded for 2 years, I just expected a much better, or at least more developed return.
I do not think we would be much better right now with RJ.
Yes we would probably have literally about 2 more wins, but he would be stunting Harris' growth and he would continue killing VC's effectiveness.

Now RJ as a 6xth man, that would have been awesome, but as much as I like RJ and think he is normally a mostly team orientated guy, I do not see him keeping his mouth shut and playing effectively and succesfully off the bench.
He sees himself as a starter, which he is, but he also see himself as much better than he is, period.

Yes a lot of the problems in the past were not having a true big man and a post presence, but RJ was part of the problem, but more so Opie's misuse of him.
He wasn't necessarily redundant to Carter either, but he definitely impacted VC's game negatively.

Also Kidd and Carter was never a good combo either, especially after the magic of the 1st season that VC was here wore off, although if you notice, this was the year he was most effective, without RJ.

VC needs a score 1st point like Devin next to him to take pressure off him.
VC is a great playmaker and passer as is, he didn't need the best passing point in the league creating for him.

The lineup was a mis mosh for so long.

Rod should have made stronger plays for a quality big man further back and ran with a lineup of Kidd, Carter and that guy, filled out with guys like Mikki Moore, Krstic, Boki and other better MLE backups.

But I digress, I am getting somewhat off topic.

With RJ back on this team, we would wind up no better than the 5th seed and we would have been looking at a hard fought 2nd or even 1st round exit depending on seeding and matchup, and we would have been stuck in the same rut with no hope for future improvement and another Opie contract extension.
Puke.

halfHAVOC · Post #9 » by **halfHAVOC** » Mon Jan 5, 2009 3:24 am

i guess but i wasn't implying RJ come off the bench i was saying he would stay on the court and get his plays WITH the second unit, he would start but just also play with the 2nd unit then sub out when VC and Harris were done resting.

Rockice_8 · Post #10 » by **Rockice_8** » Mon Jan 5, 2009 1:21 pm

RJ just puts us back were we were mediocrity, that is not a championship team. Yeah we would be better not not the best so I'm not that upset about. I like Yi's potential.

Post #11 » by **jerseyjac** » Mon Jan 5, 2009 2:02 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:Nothing deep about it.

He has become a non rebounding, semi-defense playing second tier scorer that doesn't like to pass nearly as much as he used to.

We would be about the same with him with much higher expectations.

I was and still am a big RJ fan, but he was not the answer.

I am still not big on the exact trade we did though.

Word for word I agree...

S.I.C. GM · Post #12 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Mon Jan 5, 2009 8:02 pm

I completely disagree with VC4Pres.

The bottomline is the RJ was getting paid too much money. This is the same situation with KVH. KVH was getting paid too much money for his contribution. You can lump Juwan Howard into this category.

I agree with Half. RJ was required to help on the offense. Yeah it was sad his D was garbage last year. People need to also look at the Coach with the RJ situation. He didnt limit RJ either. Frank has unleached Harris, which is good, but Where is Harris' D? Please VC still hasnt played D this year. I dont understand why people are also on RJ for passing the ball. He averaged the same amount of ast as he did the year before. When you have a pass first PG, how many assists were you expecting from RJ. 8 ast per game. Atleast he had the balls to take the shots VC kept on passing up. I remember Kidd passing the ball to VC and VC would look around while he has an open shot. BUt when he is 30 ft away from the 3pt line with a guy in his face he is shooting fadeaways.

RJ was good while he was here. Now he is not. Let it go. IMO, People that rag on RJ and Kidd sound like Raptor fans. Kidd and RJ were part of the best years being a Nets fan. NOT VC. Hopefully Harris, Lopez, and whoever is still here can dublicate that in the future.

ecuhus1981 · Post #13 » by **ecuhus1981** » Mon Jan 5, 2009 9:32 pm

^

Hey, nobody's "ragging" here. Richard Jefferson's rebounding and defense have declines statistically over the last 3 years, making him an extremely expensive player, considering the fact that he only does one thing well. Also, the "if RJ was on a good team, he'd be playing better" argument only underscores his lack of leadership, IMO.

vincecarter4pres · Post #14 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Mon Jan 5, 2009 9:44 pm

ecuhus1981 wrote:^

Hey, nobody's "ragging" here. Richard Jefferson's rebounding and defense have declines statistically over the last 3 years, making him an extremely expensive player, considering the fact that he only does one thing well. Also, the "if RJ was on a good team, he'd be playing better" argument only underscores his lack of leadership, IMO.

Post #15 » by **jerseyjac** » Tue Jan 6, 2009 1:15 pm

+2

ecuhus1981 wrote:^

Hey, nobody's "ragging" here. Richard Jefferson's rebounding and defense have declines statistically over the last 3 years, making him an extremely expensive player, considering the fact that he only does one thing well. Also, the "if RJ was on a good team, he'd be playing better" argument only underscores his lack of leadership, IMO.

Post #16 » by **jerseyjac** » Tue Jan 6, 2009 1:21 pm

S.I.C. GM wrote:I completely disagree with VC4Pres.

The bottomline is the RJ was getting paid too much money. This is the same situation with KVH. KVH was getting paid too much money for his contribution. You can lump Juwan Howard into this category.

I agree with Half. RJ was required to help on the offense. Yeah it was sad his D was garbage last year. People need to also look at the Coach with the RJ situation. He didnt limit RJ either. Frank has unleached Harris, which is good, but Where is Harris' D? Please VC still hasnt played D this year. I dont understand why people are also on RJ for passing the ball. He averaged the same amount of ast as he did the year before. When you have a pass first PG, how many assists were you expecting from RJ. 8 ast per game. Atleast he had the balls to take the shots VC kept on passing up. I remember Kidd passing the ball to VC and VC would look around while he has an open shot. BUt when he is 30 ft away from the 3pt line with a guy in his face he is shooting fadeaways.

RJ was good while he was here. Now he is not. Let it go. IMO, People that rag on RJ and Kidd sound like Raptor fans. Kidd and RJ were part of the best years being a Nets fan. NOT VC. Hopefully Harris, Lopez, and whoever is still here can dublicate that in the future.

yeh he was overpaid...which made him difficult to trade...and get fair value in return...we all know RJ was worth more than Yi and bucket of chicken...

just when you though you didnt have to read the VC -RJ comparisons...

Gold Chain · Post #17 » by **Gold Chain** » Wed Jan 7, 2009 12:52 am

Sill not sold on Yi but he will surely give you two things to look forward too :
1) Huge international interest
2) Potential and maybe, just maybe becoming a consistent player.

I love Thorn. I think he is one of the best GM's in the league and I think Rj for Yi/Simmons was a great move because Yi will always be a tradable commodity. Any team that wants a increase in gate and merch etc. will get him because he is a sensation with the Chinese fans.

So it was a good trade IMO.

St.Nick · Post #18 » by **St.Nick** » Wed Jan 7, 2009 10:18 am

I don't think the final judgment for the trade can truly come until the offseason of 2010, because I really believe that this is why the deal was made.

If R-Jeff's salary slot turns into Chris Bosh, then you guys win. If it turns into Anderson Varejao, then its a different story.

As of right now, of course the Bucks are getting more bang for their buck (crappy pun not intended).