Josh Howard

[brook_11]

It seems like the Mavs will put J.Howard on the block this off-season.What do you guys think of going for him?
Personally, i think that is a good move.
thoughts?

[NetsForce]

I was never a huge fan of J-Ho, dude is a bit of a ball-stopper... I'd be okay with acquiring him but the only player the Nets have that the Mavericks could realistically ask for is Carter and Howard is not better than Carter...

idk I'm babbling now but I just don't see the point in acquiring him.

[JES12]

Carter is not better than Howard. Or younger. Or cheaper.

They score the exact same per min and Howard is more effecient at doing it too.

The only thing Carter has on Howard is his passing/decision making and Howard's D more than makes up for that.

[SpeedyG]

Only reason I would make this deal is for contract reasons. I still maintain that Josh Howard is a ball stopper, and his basketball IQ is leaves a lot to be desired. He's very much like Ron Artest IMO, except not as (potentially) dominant. When he lets the game come to him and not worry too much about scoring, he's a very good player. Then, there's other times you just shake your head wondering what in the world he was thinking.

Granted, VC has those moments also, mainly offensively when he settles too much.

[NetsForce]

Carter is not better than Howard. Or younger. Or cheaper.

They score the exact same per min and Howard is more effecient at doing it too.

The only thing Carter has on Howard is his passing/decision making and Howard's D more than makes up for that.

Carter is better than Howard.

Off the court / leadership abilities?
Carter (very easily)

Efficiency?
Carter. .545 TS% for Carter vs. .532 TS% for Howard last year... For their careers Howard HAS NEVER shot a higher TS% than Carter in any season)

Rebounding?
Uh-oh! Howard wins a category (though last year the difference was insignificant going by TRB% and Pace & 48 minute adjusted numbers show, for their careers I didn't calculate all the numbers but I'm willing to give Howard the edge.)

Assists / Playmaking?
Carter (very easily).

If you want to give a slight edge to Howard in taking care of the ball (turnovers) then fine, though IMO that would be misleading as Carter faces SIGNIFICANTLY more defensive attention than Howard does (or has at any point in his career)...

Basically what it comes down to is:

Offensively there is no comparison Carter is better than Howard. If we buy into Howard's defensive reputation we can say he has the edge over Carter, how big that edge is I'll let everyone decide for themselves but Carter is the better all-around player and clutch performer there's no denying that. He also shows up on a more consistent basis and can get more out of scrub teammates than Howard can.

I think people just don't understand how good Carter's playmaking is.

(Don't even get me started on who has the greater basketball IQ)

[jeff1624]

Carter is not better than Howard. Or younger. Or cheaper.

They score the exact same per min and Howard is more effecient at doing it too.

The only thing Carter has on Howard is his passing/decision making and Howard's D more than makes up for that.

Carter is better than Howard.

Off the court / leadership abilities?
Carter (very easily)

Efficiency?
Carter. .545 TS% for Carter vs. .532 TS% for Howard last year... For their careers Howard HAS NEVER shot a higher TS% than Carter in any season)

Rebounding?
Uh-oh! Howard wins a category (though last year the difference was insignificant going by TRB% and Pace & 48 minute adjusted numbers show, for their careers I didn't calculate all the numbers but I'm willing to give Howard the edge.)

Assists / Playmaking?
Carter (very easily).

If you want to give a slight edge to Howard in taking care of the ball (turnovers) then fine, though IMO that would be misleading as Carter faces SIGNIFICANTLY more defensive attention than Howard does (or has at any point in his career)...

Basically what it comes down to is:

Offensively there is no comparison Carter is better than Howard. If we buy into Howard's defensive reputation we can say he has the edge over Carter, how big that edge is I'll let everyone decide for themselves but Carter is the better all-around player and clutch performer there's no denying that. He also shows up on a more consistent basis and can get more out of scrub teammates than Howard can.

I think people just don't understand how good Carter's playmaking is.

(Don't even get me started on who has the greater basketball IQ)

What he said... Is carter that underrated that people consider Josh howard the better player.

[Preludepunk27]

Guys like Josh Howard are a dime a dozen in the league. Lots of talent, lacks focus/leadership. I'd rather have Vince every day of the week even at his age right now. Maybe I'm off base for saying that, but when I consider Howard a taller version of Corey Maggette, maybe that distorts any image I have of the guy being in a Nets uni.

[vincecarter4pres]

I like Howard some, but don't love him. Carter is absolutley the much better player, it's really not even close, Howard's contract is so much better, but truthfully I doubt we are getting anyone on a max deal in 2010, so I could careless about ownership saving money.

[JES12]

What a go to use BS instead of FG% where Howard > Carter.

And last year (before ankle sprain) Howard was a 7.0 RPG guy compared to Carter with only 6.0 even though he played 2.6 mor minutes.

Of course that doesn't matter in a what have you done for me lately league. And As of late, Howard put the weight of his team on his swollen ankles and carried us from lotto bound to hte 6th seed. Then he got us past SA and and managed to lower Melo from 30 PPG (against Posey) to 24 PPG on those two bad ankles.

Howard's heart >>>>> Carter's

Soryy dude, this trade ain't happenting.


And LOL at Howard being "a dime a dozen"

[jeff1624]

What a go to use BS instead of FG% where Howard > Carter.

And last year (before ankle sprain) Howard was a 7.0 RPG guy compared to Carter with 6.0 in 2.6 mor minutes.

Of course that doesn't matter in a what have you done for me lately league. And As of late, Howard put the weight of his team on his swollen ankles and carried us from lotto bound to hte 6th seed. Then he got us past SA and and managed to lower Melo from 30 PPG (against Posey) to 24 PPG on those two bad ankles.

Howard's heart >>>>> Carter's

Soryy dude, this trade ain't happenting.


And LOL at Howard being "a dime a dozen"

You talk as if Howard is dallas' franchise player.

All you need to do is start a thread in the player comparison board to see which of the 2 people prefer..

[NetsForce]

What a go to use BS instead of FG% where Howard > Carter.

And last year (before ankle sprain) Howard was a 7.0 RPG guy compared to Carter with only 6.0 even though he played 2.6 mor minutes.

Of course that doesn't matter in a what have you done for me lately league. And As of late, Howard put the weight of his team on his swollen ankles and carried us from lotto bound to hte 6th seed. Then he got us past SA and and managed to lower Melo from 30 PPG (against Posey) to 24 PPG on those two bad ankles.

Howard's heart >>>>> Carter's

Soryy dude, this trade ain't happenting.


And LOL at Howard being "a dime a dozen"

I'm sorry are you trying to imply that using FG% instead of TS% is a more accurate way to judge a player's efficiency? What is this 1999?

On a side note you have your numbers backwards...

Against New Orleans Melo averaged: 24 ppg on 46.9% shooting
Against Dallas Melo averaged: 30 ppg on 49.1% shooting

Now I will agree with what you were implying in your last post in that Howard was the player primarily guarding Melo, but I don't see how allowing a player to score more PPG on a better FG% is supposed to make said player look any better ...

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/carmelo_anthony/

I can understand trying to defend a player on your favorite team but comparing Howard to Carter is like comparing Carter to Kobe. There's a clearcut better player.

[SpeedyG]

Having watched Carter as a Net, and Howard as a Mav...there's no denying who the better player is. Not a question in my book, and I'm not even the biggest Carter fan out there.

I will give props to Howard though for gutting it out in the playoffs. He seems like he might be turning things around, but until he does...Carter > Howard.

One caveat though, I do think Carter is on the decline. If Josh continues his improvement, and Carter continues to slide, then the gap decreases obviously, and it might soon swing to Howard's favor.

[NetsForce]

Howard is 29 years old... I doubt we see any huge improvements from him... Though I do agree there were some clearcut instances that Carter was on the decline this year. On a good team where you could cut back his minutes it would be less noticeable, but all good things come to an end eventually...

[JES12]

On a side note you have your numbers backwards...

Against New Orleans Melo averaged: 24 ppg on 46.9% shooting
Against Dallas Melo averaged: 30 ppg on 49.1% shooting

Severe case of dyslexia.

Anyways, there is still no way that we trade Howard (with Stack) for Carter. Not even considered. They are on the same level. If you want same talent, you will have to take same salary (Carroll) and add your pick (or at least a pick swap) to make up for the age difference. If that is not good enough, then Dallas passes with ease.

[NetsForce]

They're not on the same level...

...But I do understand why Dallas would not want to make this trade, and can understand why you insist on including Carroll in every NJN-DAL deal (that includes Carter).

I think what you're getting at is that per dollar you feel Howard is better than Carter.

[JES12]

They're not on the same level...

...But I do understand why Dallas would not want to make this trade, and can understand why you insist on including Carroll in every NJN-DAL deal (that includes Carter).

I think what you're getting at is that per dollar you feel Howard is better than Carter.

Well, yeah, per dollar, I definately think he is better. But forgetting salary, I think the difference btwn Howard's and Carter's ball handling/decision making (+Carter) is about the same difference as their D (+Howard). Overall, I think their talents are the same, but Howard compliments Dirk much better. I also think It is much, much more likely Carter turns into Stackhouse of Finley this year than it is for Howard to decline.

[amk482]

Carter's D is fine - he isnt all NBA defensive team but he is certainly not a liability like you seem to think. This is the same nonsense you hear about him being injury prone.

[SpeedyG]

Howard is 29 years old... I doubt we see any huge improvements from him... Though I do agree there were some clearcut instances that Carter was on the decline this year. On a good team where you could cut back his minutes it would be less noticeable, but all good things come to an end eventually...

Well, I can still see him improving, mainly because his faults were for the most part, mental. That can only improve with age....until you hit JJ and Enetric's age then it all goes downhill from there.

[NetsForce]

Howard is 29 years old... I doubt we see any huge improvements from him... Though I do agree there were some clearcut instances that Carter was on the decline this year. On a good team where you could cut back his minutes it would be less noticeable, but all good things come to an end eventually...

Well, I can still see him improving, mainly because his faults were for the most part, mental. That can only improve with age....until you hit JJ and Enetric's age then it all goes downhill from there.

low blow...

[Rich Rane]

Well, I can still see him improving, mainly because his faults were for the most part, mental. That can only improve with age....until you hit JJ and Enetric's age then it all goes downhill from there.

Holy crap...best post ever.