Vince Carter To Cavs Rumors (Updated)

brook_11 · Post #1 » by **brook_11** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:36 pm

Here´s the link:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... &type=lgns
It says we are talking about a deal sending vince to cleveland for Ben Wallace and Pavlovic. What are your thoughts?

Preludepunk27 · Post #2 » by **Preludepunk27** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:34 pm

Don't care. That is NOT happening in my opinion. If we didn't do Wally for Vince, which would have saved us more money in the long run, why would we do this?

But for fun, I'll consider it. Now, if the Nets did this, it would be a post draft deal I think. Just my opinion, I have no other reason for my logic here. But I need to know this: If Ben retired, how much of his contract counts to our cap in the 09-10 season. Is there a date that he'd have to retire by to have it off our books "technically." If that is the case...would that put us under the cap enough to sign Carlos Boozer or do a S&T for Bosh or Amare where we wouldn't have to make salary? Just throw a couple picks or something ala how we traded Kenyon for 3 first rounders?

Once someone can answer those questions, I will be able to respond to this b.s. trade for entertainment purposes.

brassviews · Post #3 » by **brassviews** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:40 pm

Jersey is looking to make the playoffs next season. So it's likely Carter stays at least until the deadline (better perspective of where the team stands playoff wise).

tsp00n · Post #4 » by **tsp00n** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:09 am

my problem with trading vc would be the lack of leadership on a young team with a coach like Opie. I think IF VC is to get traded it should happen at the deadline, give CDR and maybe TWILL a chance to soak some stuff up... but then u would still need that vet leader...

amk482 · Post #5 » by **amk482** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:33 am

Preludepunk27 wrote:Don't care. That is NOT happening in my opinion. If we didn't do Wally for Vince, which would have saved us more money in the long run, why would we do this?

But for fun, I'll consider it. Now, if the Nets did this, it would be a post draft deal I think. Just my opinion, I have no other reason for my logic here. But I need to know this: If Ben retired, how much of his contract counts to our cap in the 09-10 season. Is there a date that he'd have to retire by to have it off our books "technically." If that is the case...would that put us under the cap enough to sign Carlos Boozer or do a S&T for Bosh or Amare where we wouldn't have to make salary? Just throw a couple picks or something ala how we traded Kenyon for 3 first rounders?

Once someone can answer those questions, I will be able to respond to this b.s. trade for entertainment purposes.

To summarize the below, his salary counts, we could save some $ if we bought him out for less but why would he do this? unless he believes in the honor system.

53. How do retired players count against the cap?
Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player has retired. For example, James Worthy retired in 1994, two years before his contract ended. He continued to receive his salary for the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons, so his salary was included in the Lakers' team salary in those seasons. It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief. If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary. For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley's entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley's salary). This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.

If the player "proves the doctors wrong" and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to his team's team salary when he plays in his 10th game in any one season (including pre-season, regular season and playoff games). This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. A team loses this salary cap relief even if the player later signs and plays 10 games with a different team.

Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.

VCRJKidd15 · Post #6 » by **VCRJKidd15** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:22 am

if vince gets traded for that trash ima have a heart attack and yes i understand it would be for financial purposes

amk482 · Post #7 » by **amk482** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:01 pm

I dont like it but undestand it. Its also vey possible that old news is just being recycled to get people talking. However, if we do move VC to the Cavs I think three things must happen and hopefully Thorn and Kiki would make it happen.

1 - JJ Hickson has to be part of the deal.

2 - Cavs have to take our crap in return

3 - Wallace retires and agrees to buyout

NJ trades: VC, Hassel, Swat, Najera, Boone

Cle trades: Hickson, Pavlovic, Wallace, Kinsey, Jackson, #30, $3M cash

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=5126160

NJ takes out the trash, receives max $ to pay wallace and pavlovic, #30 (collison?? Euro???) and PF of the future in Hickson who we liked a lot last year. We also generate a TPE of about $4M which could be useful.

Cavs get VC. Najera could be useful in guarding Turk and Lewis in next year's ECF. Boone provides suport at the 4/5. Swat might get minutes and Hassel collects a paycheck.

amk482 · Post #8 » by **amk482** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:05 pm

didnt see the other trhread till now. can this post be moved?

cram · Post #9 » by **cram** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:50 am

Wouldn't it make way more sense to trade him for a simple expiring?

Preludepunk27 · Post #10 » by **Preludepunk27** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:01 am

cram wrote:Wouldn't it make way more sense to trade him for a simple expiring?

Exactly what I was saying. Nets would NEVER do this. Last year, if we traded for Wally, we'd just be paying the remained 90 days of his contract then walking away. This one would require us, even if we bought both out, a few million. If Thorn turned down Wally for Vince, he would NEVER do this without getting something of value in return. I personally don't think Thorn will ever trade Vince for just an expiring unless we swing a deal for a LEGIT player with Simmons's contract first. Until that day happens, I'll gladly be a doubting Thomas.

deviljets7 · Post #11 » by **deviljets7** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:17 am

Preludepunk27 wrote:
cram wrote:Wouldn't it make way more sense to trade him for a simple expiring?

Exactly what I was saying. Nets would NEVER do this. Last year, if we traded for Wally, we'd just be paying the remained 90 days of his contract then walking away. This one would require us, even if we bought both out, a few million. If Thorn turned down Wally for Vince, he would NEVER do this without getting something of value in return. I personally don't think Thorn will ever trade Vince for just an expiring unless we swing a deal for a LEGIT player with Simmons's contract first. Until that day happens, I'll gladly be a doubting Thomas.

Agreed.

One of the misconceptions regarding Vince and 2010, is that NJ doesn't need to clear the entire contract to have max cap room that summer. If you can pawn Najera with Carter (the absolute least CLE can do since Vince for Wallace is a joke), you can add an $8-10 million player, while maintaining the needed max cap room.

I think this might be what Thorn has planned. Since Vince for Wallace works straight up, there's no point including Pavlovic's deal unless it was to either 1.) use the savings he provides for another deal and/or 2.) a way to get Najera out as well. Otherwise Pavlovic's inclusion costs NJ an additional $1.5 million.

Post #12 » by **Rich Rane** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:56 am

Peter Vecsey of the New York Post
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06212009/sp ... 175377.htm

Peter Vecsey wrote:the Nets have had no conversation with the Cavaliers since mid-February regarding Vince Carter for anybody, much less Sasha Pavlovic and Ben Wallace, who talked about retiring but is not about to forfeit $14M.

No first hand confirmation from Thorn though.

vincecarter4pres · Post #13 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:40 pm

Honestly, this silly rumor may have been purposely started by Thorn or Kiki through a 3rd party just to get the phone ringing with offers for Vince from other teams. Create a littl buzz about him right before draft day to hopefully open up some options and grease the wheels.

Edit: This could also easily be Ferry starting this rumor. He knows the Cavs have very limited trade assets if they aren't willing to include Delonte West or JJ Hickson. Therefore he could be trying to make it look as though there are teams really interested in salary dumps for a stud player on VC's level, so if there are any other teams that have been mulling sending one of their player's such as a Kaman for nothing more then Wallace's expiring or Pavs nonguaranteed deal, they better do it now before it's too late.

deviljets7 · Post #14 » by **deviljets7** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:29 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:Honestly, this silly rumor may have been purposely started by Thorn or Kiki through a 3rd party just to get the phone ringing with offers for Vince from other teams. Create a littl buzz about him right before draft day to hopefully open up some options and grease the wheels.

Edit: This could also easily be Ferry starting this rumor. He knows the Cavs have very limited trade assets if they aren't willing to include Delonte West or JJ Hickson. Therefore he could be trying to make it look as though there are teams really interested in salary dumps for a stud player on VC's level, so if there are any other teams that have been mulling sending one of their player's such as a Kaman for nothing more then Wallace's expiring or Pavs nonguaranteed deal, they better do it now before it's too late.

It's possible, there's just something really weird about the rumor in general since the deal works on the checker without Pavlovic involved. CLE loses, what for them would be an asset.

For NJ, unless Pav's partially guaranteed was used as a vehicle to dump Najera on a team looking to save now (ie: Pav/Najera for $10 million in expirings), Pavlovic only represents an extra $1.5 mil the Nets have to pay in a buyout.

Post #15 » by **rsavaj** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:57 pm

if you guys are salary dumping vince, please take shaq off our hands.

Preludepunk27 · Post #16 » by **Preludepunk27** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:05 pm

rsavaj wrote:if you guys are salary dumping vince, please take shaq off our hands.

I think the only way we salary dump vince is if we get a good draft pick this year like #5 with Washington. If that isn't the case, Nets will certain look for probably an established player a little younger with a better contract and hopefully more potential to land a 2010 FA with.

But again, I think Vince only gets moved if we somehow can package Simmons/Hassel/fillers or Simmons/Najera/fillers to another team for a legit 3 or 4.

amk482 · Post #17 » by **amk482** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:54 pm

cram wrote:Wouldn't it make way more sense to trade him for a simple expiring?

I agree but they may not be able to get an expiring, young player and pick (or combination thereof). My post was simply made to note that Wallace and Pavlovic for VC rumored deal is not nearly enough from the Nets perspective. They need to take on our additional bad contracts to save us $ and also give us #30 and Hickson and the $ to buy out pavlovic. Without those add-ons, Nets dont even consider, as you all have mentioned.

S.I.C. GM · Post #18 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:42 pm

Preludepunk27 wrote:
rsavaj wrote:if you guys are salary dumping vince, please take shaq off our hands.

I think the only way we salary dump vince is if we get a good draft pick this year like #5 with Washington. If that isn't the case, Nets will certain look for probably an established player a little younger with a better contract and hopefully more potential to land a 2010 FA with.

But again, I think Vince only gets moved if we somehow can package Simmons/Hassel/fillers or Simmons/Najera/fillers to another team for a legit 3 or 4.

Prelude,

Etan Thomas, Mike James and Darius Songaila seem to be the three players the Wizards wouldn't mind getting off the books.

The Wizards have gotten at least 10 offers for the pick, but every team I spoke with still was in the dark about where it stood.

The Knicks have offered Larry Hughes for Thomas and James. The Wolves reportedly have offered Mike Miller. The Celtics would give them Ray Allen. The Rockets would give them Tracy McGrady and Carl Landry. The Bucks would send them Richard Jefferson. The Nets would entertain unloading Vince Carter. The Suns could do something with Shaquille O'Neal. The Blazers could part ways with Steve Blake, Jerryd Bayless or Travis Outlaw.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft200 ... DraftBuzz2

I would take on Etan, James and songoila's contracts. If etan can stay healthy he would push the Yi, SWAT and Anderson around for a year. Songoila has the hustle. James back up PG for a year.

Preludepunk27 · Post #19 » by **Preludepunk27** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:44 pm

Depending on who was there at 5 (by that, I mean is James Harden there?), I would be open to this. It'd be nice if we could move Swat or Boone in the deal though too. One of them needs to go.

deviljets7 · Post #20 » by **deviljets7** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:54 pm

If I can get pick #5 for Vince, I'll take the Wizards' bad contracts back. Even if you assume having to take back both Songalia and Stevenson, the cost of those two and pick #5 would be around $7 million less than Vince in 2010/11.

A high lottery pick and max cap room for Vince is a no-brainer at this point.