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Help me out guys. Im having this debate with some poster on the cleveland board. i think VC improves our team a lot, while he thinks we get a lot weaker.

how good a passer is VC, especially compared to hedo? how has he helped your current bigs, as well as past big guys?

VC is the better passer, playmaker, creator, facilitator, runs an offense better, can actually run the point and has better court vision.

/Thread

lol yeah. i know he is, but can you give specific examples why?

Specific examples?
He runs the pick and roll like a top point in the league.
He has excellent court vision and is a great creator in the half court.
He finds guys in transition.
He actually ran the point for a huge chunk of the game every single game since his 2nd year here, including when Kidd was here.
He averages something like 8 assists and change when filling in for Devin or Kidd when either one was injured.
He takes care of the ball and runs the offense efficiently.
He makes those around him better.
He's gotten some guys paid and made them look better ala J Kidd.

I mean what else?
I am not a huge stats guy, so if you want assist % stats and usage, efficency etc., I suggest you just pull this page up:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... evi01.html

dwighty111 wrote:how good a passer is VC, especially compared to hedo?

Vince has averaged 4.71 assists per game as a Net, through some times when the Nets were not much for 3 point shooting.

Over the last two years Carter has averaged 4.9 assists per game.

Hedo has averaged 5 apg for the last two years. Before those two years however, he had years of 2.3, 2.8, and 3.2. I'll drop the 2.3 since he wasn't a starter and therefore played a different role..... Also we should account for the increase in minutes he has gotten in the two years since then...... over the last two years those numbers per 37 minutes (about his average per game): 3.1 and 3.8.

Hedo has only averaged 5 assists over the last two years, not coincidentally when the Magic signed Rashard Lewis and began playing him as a mismatch shooter against power forwards. With increased floor spacing on a team full of shooters complementing his pick and rolls or drive and kicks, Hedo's assists took a significant jump.

Should the Magic choose to employ the same strategy with Vince expect a similar jump in production, though I suspect they may use a traditional lineup more often with Vince being interchangeable between the SG and SF.

Assist per turnover ratio also is decidedly in favor of Vince.
Hedo's for the past two years: 1.66 and 1.88.
Vince's: 2.13 and 2.24

Aside from assist numbers, you can also look at the radical spike in 3pt shooting for nearly every shooter on the Nets team this year. Dooling, Simmons, Hayes, Anderson early in the year, Yi pre-injury..... those guys were set up off of Harris/Carter pick and rolls or drive and kicks.

Less often this past year due to the emergence of Harris and (particularly) Lopez but Vince has also shown to be an excellent passer from the high and mid post (which is one of his most effective spots on the floor).

Vince has played point guard for this team. I mean that literally. He was the point guard. No point forward or a SG handling the ball. He brought the ball up and guarded the opposing teams PG. That's not ideal, for defensive reasons mostly, but the fact that he can do it speaks volumes towards his passing ability.

Finally, don't forget that Vince isn't playing with Dwight Howard.

how has he helped your current bigs, as well as past big guys?

NOTEBOOK Like most kids new to the business, Brook Lopez readily admits that he was crushed: Vince Carter was his role model and touchstone, so any forced separation was going to make the young Nets center feel a little less at home than he used to be.

"He was our leader. He was always there for us," Lopez said of Carter yesterday. "A great teacher for me, he definitely made the transition easier. Obviously he is going to be missed, but I'm happy for him. He's in a good situation.

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2009/06/new_jersey_nets_brook_lopez_le_1.html

Lopez seemed decidedly mixed. Carter helped him enormously - remember in pre-season in London when Carter got on him, demanding he play like a 7-footer?

"It's a good fit for both Vince and Ryan," said Lopez, who with Anderson learned the league together as rookies last season. "Obviously, Orlando likes to put shooters around Dwight. He'll be seeing a lot more one-on-one, less doubles with the roster they've got."

So all those doubles Carter saw with the Nets could easily settled down low to stop Lopez.

The Nets lost more than stats with Carter's departure.

"Obviously, he was our leader. He was always there for us. A great teacher for me, definitely made the transition easier. He's going to be missed but I'm happy for him. He's in a good situation," Lopez said.

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/nets/archives/2009/06/our_mister_broo.html

06-07 - Mikki Moore has a career year with 9.8 ppg while shooting 60.9%. Can't find quotes but I'm sure both Moore and the coaching staff made a point of giving credit to both Kidd AND Carter. They would always comment about how Carter made things easy for Moore who I believe led the league (or was close to it) in FG% that year.

Krstic lived on the pick and pop with both Carter and Kidd (though he was a hugely underrated post player).

Brook Lopez pick and rolled with both Harris AND Carter.

All excellent points and examples, especially the jump in everyone's 3 point% last season.

dwighty, Dont go down that route. I read some of the stuff those guys wrote about this trade on their board.

They are just scared. Their management was going after VC too. The Cavs still havent address the pick and roll defense. They still need a robin to Lebron's Batman. Shaq will help but they cant play both Z and Shaq because of the pick and roll.

Dont waste your time. Magic will continue to smack the Cavs around.

All howard needs to do is continue to develop an inside game and learn to pass out of the post.