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Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:54 pm
by S.I.C. GM
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:45 pm
by isekii
haha exactly what I was thinking.
Harris + Future picks and salary relief if need be.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:03 pm
by Preludepunk27
I'd crap my pants if he pulled that off, but I think it's 99% that it won't happen. If they traded Chris Paul, the Hornets may as well just move to Seattle now.
With that said, I'd be open to trading Harris + Anyone not named Brook and Courtney + expirings for Paul and Peja. Peja has this year and next on his contract, but we can try to use Peja's expiring next summer in a Sign & Trade for a free agent possibly. If not, Peja is done defensively but still DOESN'T MISS if he's open on offense and I'd be fine using him as a stop gap for one of our young SF's to develop while Peja just waits for a pass from CP3 or out of the double team from Brook. I know some of you are against Peja, but I couldn't care.
A starting 5 of Paul, Lee, Peja, Yi, Brooks is a fun line up to me (this is also implying that New Orlean's wouldn't want Yi, but whatever)
I'm rambling. I'm not gonna say another word about it until something happens because I don't think anything will.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:44 pm
by S.I.C. GM
Prelude you are not rambling. I feel the same way.
Even if this isnt even close to being possible, Thorn still needs to make that call.
This could be Kidd for Marbury(Not come paring attitudes) all over again.
Actually getting Harris back wouldnt be that much of a change for the Hornets. Clearly Paul is a better player then Harris.
Wouldnt trading Harris, Simmons, CDR, and 1st round pick 2010 for Paul and Peja work?
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:14 pm
by NJ To BK
There giving up way to easy...they had a really good run the year before last.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:49 pm
by vincecarter4pres
What have I been saying for months now?!
Paul is BYC, but there are extremely easy ways around it.
There are only 5 or 6 teams that can put together a really competitive package for Paul, that at the same time gives them long term salary relief and gets them under the luxury tax this season, all while still fielding a real deal future contender and instant playoff team of at least 2nd round strength, and we are part of that select group.
We might even be able to snag Boozer in a seperate tr4ade without completely gutting the roster!
I know this is all just talk, but you have to admit, it gets you excited, does it not?!
I gotta find a link to this old thread I made on the Trade Board, be right back...
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:53 pm
by Preludepunk27
NJ To BK wrote:There giving up way to easy...they had a really good run the year before last.
I've been talking to friends about the Hornets since the beginning of last year. Even way early in the season, they looked lost and unmotivated and I started pointing the finger at Byron Scott. Now, I think he's a great coach, but to me it seems like the star players on his team (mind you I'm going off his time with the Nets which I have a bias towards and his few years in NOH) buy into his system for a little while then basically stop giving a damn. I have NBA League pass and there were countless games I watched where Chris Paul looked like he didn't give a damn about what Scott was saying. Everyone basically listened to James Posey most of the time. Even though I think Scott obviously got a totally raw deal in Jersey, I think there is some truth to my logic. If a team stops buying into a coaches system, you CAN NOT win no matter how talented you are. Just from watching the 10-15 Hornets games this year, I think that is what is starting to go on. It seemed to only get worse when management started going crazy too (see: Tyson Chandler ordeal).
I'll monitor the situation, but I still don't believe they'd ever trade Chris Paul unless it was like "Chris Paul, Peja, Chandler for Amare (who signs an extension), Nash and Fillers.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:59 pm
by vincecarter4pres
NJ To BK wrote:There giving up way to easy...they had a really good run the year before last.
Their team blows chunks, it's CP3, West and a bunch of D-leaguers and retirees.
They have no young talent or good contracts to flip the lineup, they're a 7th seed at best that completely overachievd for one year, they're never healthy, stuck in mediocrity.
One injury to Paul away from high lotto, one West injury away from the 12th pick.
I've been saying this since last December, they have 3 options:
1) Trade away the entre roster for expirings. Trade Posey for an expiring, trade Chandler for whatever expiring they can get, package West and Peja for expirings, a draft pick and a young prospect. Sit CP3 down and tell him what he already knows, "We were going nowhere as presently constructed and there was no way to improve. We will suck this year, but we let the few young guys we have develop and we get a top 3 pick in next year's stellar draft. We clear pretty much every contract we have off the books and we are instantly one of the top player in FA, you are a huge draw and we can completely revamp the roster.
2) Remain as is, maybe even sell off a piece such as Posey or Chandler to get under the tax. The team is obviously junk, Chris Paul demands a trade, his value goes down because all the other teams in the league have leverage. Game over.
3) Trade Chris Paul, right now. Put him on the block and get a great package for him, all while getting under the tax and cutting major long term salary.
I'm telling you, you can read in between the lines on that article, Paul is getting very frustrated and he is not a stupid young man. He's going to be asking out soon if NOH ownership doesn't get smart faster then you can say Micheal Scott.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:01 pm
by crazykidd2k6
Yeah were going to have to take Peja as well if we that trade for Paul which i'm totally fine with. The trade will be:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=kl2vs3and 1 or 2 first round picks for the Nets.
But can't we just waive Peja's contract if we do this so we can still be competitive 09-10 Free agent? Let's be Honest here, even if we have CP3 were still not gonna go anywhere. We are still going to need more weapons at the 3 and 4
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:14 pm
by vincecarter4pres
crazykidd2k6 wrote:Yeah were going to have to take Peja as well if we that trade for Paul which i'm totally fine with. The trade will be:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=kl2vs3and 1 or 2 first round picks for the Nets.
But can't we just waive Peja's contract if we do this so we can still be competitive 09-10 Free agent? Let's be Honest here, even if we have CP3 were still not gonna go anywhere. We are still going to need more weapons at the 3 and 4
This does not get it done, you need more talent and you have to get NOH under the tax this season, which this doesn't do.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:20 pm
by vincecarter4pres
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=922953&start=0Top of the 2nd page:I honestly think New Jersey can put together the best package available while still fielding a very competitive or even contender level team that would still have major cap space in 2011 to add one more piece if needed.
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=5170542
Devin Harris
Courtney Lee
Josh Boone
Rafer Alston
Jarvis Hayes
Bobby Simmons
one of the 2010 picks
future 1st
for
Chris Paul
Peja Stojakovic
Antonio Daniels
Rasual Butler
Clears Peja's nearly immovable contract, gives them an Allstar point guard who is arguably the 5th best point in the league and is only 26 locked up for 4 years for about 34 million, a really nice shooting guard prospect in Courtney Lee, a very capable backup big in Boone and 2 future 1sts.
It also shaves off about 7.5 million instantly, bringing NOH under the luxury tax including Collisons salary. If they wanted they could buyout Simmons and Alston for likely at least 2.5 million less then their contracts each to save even more money, figured they wouldn't be needed nor really a good fit on New Orleans after this trade.
For the fact it would be very hard to get full value for a player like Paul, especially at his young age and with his BYC status, then adding in the ability to dump Peja's craptastic contract and bringing them under the tax, that honestly looks like a hell of a deal.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:21 pm
by S.I.C. GM
crazykidd2k6 wrote:Yeah were going to have to take Peja as well if we that trade for Paul which i'm totally fine with. The trade will be:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=kl2vs3and 1 or 2 first round picks for the Nets.
But can't we just waive Peja's contract if we do this so we can still be competitive 09-10 Free agent? Let's be Honest here, even if we have CP3 were still not gonna go anywhere. We are still going to need more weapons at the 3 and 4
VC4Prez is right. you have to add some young guys and/or draft picks.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:25 pm
by crazykidd2k6
what do you think of this trade then?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=l9to4zthen add 1 or 2 first round picks there
That should be enough talent there? right?
Anyway I don't know the rules for the NBA Salary so yeah.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:25 pm
by S.I.C. GM
VC4, that seems too much.
Lee with 1 2010 and 1 future is a lot. I would rather give them CDR then Lee if we are giving them 2 draft picks.
I dont think they want to add Daniels and Rasual because they need those expiring.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:36 pm
by vincecarter4pres
S.I.C. GM wrote:VC4, that seems too much.
Lee with 1 2010 and 1 future is a lot. I would rather give them CDR then Lee if we are giving them 2 draft picks.
I dont think they want to add Daniels and Rasual because they need those expiring.
You have to understand, Paul is BYC, so it's hard to get NOH under the luxury tax and still make it work by the BYC.
Saying that's too much is silly to bro, it's F-ing CP3, he's the best point in the game, a likely HOF lock, who may go down as a top 3 point guard of all time and he's only like 25 and he's locked up for 3 or 4 more seasons.
Terrence Williams can be subbed for Lee, but the salaries are so tight, i think CDR makes the trade undoable by the CBA.
Teams like OKC would likely offer Westbrook
and Jeff Green or maybe even Harden along with pure raw cap space and taking back Peja.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:37 pm
by S.I.C. GM
^VC4P, I understand what you are saying but is Harris isnt westbrook. Harris is an Allstar. Westbrook is going to be a second year player.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:51 pm
by Rich Rane
S.I.C. GM wrote:http://www.probasketballnews.com/story/?storyid=647
Paul is hopeful the Hornets will end up retaining their key players, but knows nothing is certain.
"Right now, it looks like the same cast," he said. "But, if something happens, it happens. ... Me and (forward James Posey say to one another that) we've got to work with what we've got and go out and play hard."
Thorn work your magic.
Harris and whatever for Paul!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!
HAH! If this happens, I'm going to stop being a commitaphobe.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:21 pm
by vincecarter4pres
Which means he is on a rookie contract and all types of potential.
I don't really like Westbrook much, but it seems he is held in high regard around the league and Harris is as well, but Westbrook has better long term potential to a complete rebuilding team, not even because he may become more talented, but because time is on his side if he does turn out to be a franchise or even 2nd option talent.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:58 pm
by S.I.C. GM
vincecarter4pres wrote:Which means he is on a rookie contract and all types of potential.
I don't really like Westbrook much, but it seems he is held in high regard around the league and Harris is as well, but Westbrook has better long term potential to a complete rebuilding team, not even because he may become more talented, but because time is on his side if he does turn out to be a franchise or even 2nd option talent.
Oh Ok. I understand.
Re: Thorn Get 'er Done
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:26 pm
by deviljets7
I'm 99% sure Paul is not getting traded, but here we go. It's a 2-part trade.
Part 1:
NJ Trades: Harris, Yi, CDR, Boone, Hassell, Hayes, NJ's 2010 #1 (unprotected) and GSW's 2011 #1
(Total Out: $20,800,588) for Chris Paul, Morris Peterson and James Posey (Total In: $25,796,628)
NO Trades: Paul (BYC), Peterson and Posey (Total Out: $18,917,280) for Harris, Yi, CDR, Boone, Hassell, Hayes, NJ's 2010 #1 (unprotected) and GSW's 2011 #1 (Total In: $20,800,588)
Part 2:
NJ Trades TPE for Hilton Armstrong
The Hornets save $7,797,238 this year (before accounting for the luxury tax), add an all-star PG, two young prospects in Yi/CDR, two draft picks and dump two undesirable contracts in MoPete and Posey. I know most deals have Peja instead, but NOH saves $4 million more with MoPete/Posey and Posey's deal is a year longer.
PG: Harris/Daniels
SG: CDR/Butler
SF: Peja/Hayes
PF: West/Yi
C: Chandler/Boone
The Nets get one of the top 5 players in the league with Chris Paul, without seriously jeopardizing the ability to sign a max free agent in 2010/11. Assuming you renounce Dooling, Armstrong and SWAT, you have about $38,797,830 committed for 8 players (Paul, Posey, MoPete, Lopez, Lee, TWill, Najera and the DAL pick). That total includes the buyout for Dooling and Najera's cruddy contract.
If you can pair Dooling/Najera for an expiring and then trade the DAL pick for a 2011 1st rounder, you'd have $16.4 in cap room if the cap is at $53.6 million.
PG: Paul/Alston/Dooling
SG: Lee/TWill/MoPete
SF: Posey/Simmons
PF: SWAT/Armstrong/Najera
C: Lopez/Battie