Did Rod Thorn do Vince a favor?

guess_wh0 · Post #1 » by **guess_wh0** » Wed Sep 9, 2009 3:31 pm

Hi, I'm an Orlando fan and I had a question.

Do you guys think that Rod Thorn traded Vince Carter to the Magic as a favor or was it the best deal on the table?

Orlando is the perfect situation for Carter. Its his home-town. A legit Championship team and the only one without a star wing. Therefore, a place where Vince can shine. Carter was seen at Magic's playoff games, last season. He's been talking to Dwight about playing in Orlando for a long time.

There's way too many variables to think that this was the best deal on the table and If this was done as a favor, how do you feel as a Nets fan?

vincecarter4pres · Post #2 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Wed Sep 9, 2009 3:58 pm

Come on dude, really?!
Yes it was the best deal on the table, at least as far as Thorn was concerned. It saved NJ the max money possible by the CBA and brought back two solid vet expirings.
He also swapped Lee for Anderson, which is what he wasnted I guess.

Who else really wanted him? Maybe Cleveland and Portland.
Portland are the one's who really missed out in my opinion.
They could have had him last year for something as simple as Raef and maybe Batum and passed. They make a deeper playoff run and have him for the next two years. Instead they offer 10 mill a year to a much lesser player in Hedo, who is close to the same age and for a longer term deal. Made no sense to me, even the Miller signing.
There was no way we would send him to Cleveland...
To Boston for Ray Allen? Meh.
IDK what else you think was out there when Shaq and RJ are being dealt for pure expirings...

Preludepunk27 · Post #3 » by **Preludepunk27** » Wed Sep 9, 2009 4:42 pm

Probably a little bit of both. Carter probably new the Nets had to trade him. He's done enough for the organization that they'd try their best to trade him to a contender. At the deadline last year, Portland tried to fist us and we obviously told them to die. Even though we wanted to move him to a good team, we also didn't want garbage for him. We looked for the same thing we looked for in the Kidd deal: To send Vince to a good team where we could nab some expirings and a young player we felt could become at least a solid NBA starter. Courtney fit that bill to our brass and I don't think any other teams offering (personally I hadn't heard any offers from other teams anyway) could beat the offer of Courtney + expirings (who actually could help out our team this year). Orlando wanted Anderson if they were gonna give up Lee. Nets management as well as fans love Ryan Anderson. He plays with a lot of heart and is a smart player, but the Nets felt he was expendible because we're still committed to Yi as our PF of the future and if that is what it took to get Lee into a Nets uni, well then so be it.

Personally I'm ok with it. We all new Vince wasn't gonna play in Jersey through his whole contract and we wish him the best of luck. He was a class act from Day 1 of arriving here and will do the same in Orlando as well. It's nice to get a guy like Lee and I hope he pans out. Either way, we set ourselves up better for next summer. We have a young/hungry team. Though probably a top 5 pick, there is potential on this team. If we show we're at least competitive, yet lose a ton, we could still convince some decent FA's to come here next year. If we land a top 3 pick (which I could see Stern rigging, but that's another discussion), I think it would be enticing for an FA to sign with a good young team. I believe we will have a lot of "possitive losses" next season where we play hard and lose by a few points to a team that pretty much should have blown us out. I expect progression from Harris, Lee, CDR, Brook and Yi. You can't name many teams in this league that have the amount of young talent with upside like we do. Portland obviously comes to mind but that core has played together for a few years together now. I think in the 10-11 season, with the FA addition, we could be like they were last year, eventually getting back into serious contention.

Maybe that's just me being too optimistic though, but I think our future on the court scares a LOT of teams and fans. They just won't admit it.

ecuhus1981 · Post #4 » by **ecuhus1981** » Wed Sep 9, 2009 5:22 pm

I think that Thorn did him a favor.

Rod doesn't get his arm twisted in trade negotiations very often, but the addition of Anderson (selected one spot before Lee!) and conspicuous absence of a future 1st reeks of our FO caving to Otis' trade demands, because we didn't want to send VC anywhere else. Personally, I think it was a classy move; but although I have faith that Lee will be a solid player, I believe we could have gotten more from other teams.

For goodness sakes, before the trade deadline, HOU was ready to send the expiring Artest, Battier, Landry and Lowry to us for Vince. Those pieces aren't as good for us in terms of fit, but in terms of pure value, I believe that they outweigh our return value from Orlando.

S.I.C. GM · Post #5 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Wed Sep 9, 2009 5:30 pm

I dont know about favors. If this was a favor, then Kidd for Harris was a favor too.

I think this was a good deal. The other thing is why would Thorpe look like an idiot just for a favor. Remember that guy said VC was fools gold.

Another thing I like when people talk about the Lee for Anderson trade. Yeah it was a side deal, but this wasnt some give away.

If the you were Thorn and you had the opportunity to do a do over of that Draft, who do u pick Lee or Anderson?

Would Orlando trade Lee for Anderson straight up?

ecuhus1981 · Post #6 » by **ecuhus1981** » Wed Sep 9, 2009 6:18 pm

S.I.C. GM wrote:I dont know about favors. If this was a favor, then Kidd for Harris was a favor too.

I think this was a good deal. The other thing is why would Thorpe look like an idiot just for a favor. Remember that guy said VC was fools gold.

Another thing I like when people talk about the Lee for Anderson trade. Yeah it was a side deal, but this wasnt some give away.

If the you were Thorn and you had the opportunity to do a do over of that Draft, who do u pick Lee or Anderson?

Would Orlando trade Lee for Anderson straight up?

Oh, I don't mean to suggest that it wasn't a good deal, nor that I or NJ would pick Anderson over Lee again, if we could re-do the 2008 draft.

I'm just saying that it wasn't the BEST deal we could have gotten, just a pretty good one. If Lee blows up to the tune of 18/4/3/1/1 next year, I will be eating crow. But as for the Lee-Anderson swap, obviously I prefer the deal with it than without it. It just looks like a mea culpa from the organization.

Bottom line, I feel "Battie, Alston, Lee and a 2012 1st for Carter" would have been a competitive offer with the other proposals we received for VC. Remove the 1st AND we have to pony up a quality young big who we just drafted, and it loses its lustre.

guess_wh0 · Post #7 » by **guess_wh0** » Wed Sep 9, 2009 8:01 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:Come on dude, really?!
Yes it was the best deal on the table, at least as far as Thorn was concerned. It saved NJ the max money possible by the CBA and brought back two solid vet expirings.
He also swapped Lee for Anderson, which is what he wasnted I guess.

Who else really wanted him? Maybe Cleveland and Portland.
Portland are the one's who really missed out in my opinion.
They could have had him last year for something as simple as Raef and maybe Batum and passed. They make a deeper playoff run and have him for the next two years. Instead they offer 10 mill a year to a much lesser player in Hedo, who is close to the same age and for a longer term deal. Made no sense to me, even the Miller signing.
There was no way we would send him to Cleveland...
To Boston for Ray Allen? Meh.
IDK what else you think was out there when Shaq and RJ are being dealt for pure expirings...

I'm pretty sure there were rumors of Cleveland, Houston, San Antonio, Portland all being interested.

Maybe it was the best deal but VC wanting to play for Orlando, attending their games and then ending up there seems like he knew he was coming to the Magic.

Btw Lee is a great young player, unselfish, good defensively, level headed. I just don't think he can be a star in this league. A good role player yes. His peak right now I would say is Richard Jefferson.

Preludepunk27 · Post #8 » by **Preludepunk27** » Wed Sep 9, 2009 8:31 pm

If he turned out to be Richard Jefferson without the Ego and more of a pure 2 than a 3, I'd sign off on this deal every single day of the week.

But still when you list those teams, it still does not sound like a "favor" to me. Besides Landry the Houston deal doesn't interest me and adding him would take minutes from Yi who management still wants to be "our PF." Portland was stingy at the deadline and I'm sure they were stingy in the offseason. Cleveland and San Antonio hhad nothing of value to offer besides picks and expirings. We have 4 picks in the next 2 drafts so and with the amount of young guys we already have, I think we wanted a guy we've seen with "our own eyes." Lee was the best player he could get and I'm happy with it. It cost us Ryan Anderson. THAT is what you can argue is the favor. Nets could have been like "Vince for this package or nothing." They asked for Ryan. We love Ryan but he was expendible. I much rather would have given them BOTH Sean and Josh, but honestly it's moot. It's a no brainer since management things Lee has a higher upside.

Either way, I just don't see that we did them a favor. Even with including Ryan Anderson, I don't like anyone's potential deals more than the one we ended up getting.

Rockice_8 · Post #9 » by **Rockice_8** » Wed Sep 9, 2009 8:52 pm

The only team that could have put up a better offer in my opinion was Portland. And they wouldn't do Raef + Batum for VC. They were asking for Dallas' 1st. They were trying to rip us off. We got a young player with some potential. He's not gonna be a star but a solid role player for a championship team why not he almost was in his rookie year. It comes down to who you want more Batum/Outlaw or Lee.

nowfocus · Post #10 » by **nowfocus** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:08 pm

I think the trade could have been stronger in NJ favor, but you can't take a player like VC to a team he doesn't want to be on. It just doesn't work for all parties.

ecuhus1981 · Post #11 » by **ecuhus1981** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:16 pm

San Antonio offered expirings plus Hill. Now, I'm no big George Hill fan, but he's an OK prospect. I'd take Lee over him any day of the week obviously; but Hill AND getting to keep Anderson... that's worth a bit more than Lee IMO.

Oh well, I think it worked out for everyone. Lee fits a greater need for the post-VC Nets than Hill or Anderson would have, VC belongs in Orlando, and RJ is a better fit for the Spurs (and he didn't cost them Hill).

crazykidd2k6 · Post #12 » by **crazykidd2k6** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:24 am

There was no favors in this trade. Carter was definitely going to land to a winning team. It was just the matter of need. Orlando coincidentally needed a wing player and the Nets coincidentally needed a 2 guard. Also, this was the best deal that was offered to us. We needed to take it even if it was giving up a promising prospect.(Ryan Anderson) Also this trade built us up even more for the 2010 signing OR making HUGE blockbuster trades. Don't think Devin Harris is untradable I know, Thorn will definitely pull the trigger if he see's any player on superstar being on the block. Our team I believe is the most promising rebuilding team and the fastest one. Only 2 years thats quick. I feel like we are a ticking time bomb like we are one move away to become a dominating team.

Post #13 » by **jerseyjac** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:14 pm

look at anyway your want...Vince got a big time favor, its happens to be his hometown...(call it luck or whatever...Vince walked out the Nets door saying "thank you very much, you guys have been great"...)

go back to 2008 or earlier...look at some of the trade rumors and how I believe the Nets were not ready to pull the trigger on any trade...Fast forward to VC trade day...not that it was a bad trade, not that we dont have big options dropping his contract for the upcoming FA sweepstakes...but I will always feel we could of gotten more if we took something last year or if we waited to the trade deadline of this year...there is risk everywhere, I believe the Nets dropped their price tag on Vince, and did what was financially best for the franchise...

Birth of the Cool · Post #14 » by **Birth of the Cool** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:41 pm

It seemed to be a perfect fit for Vince.
Hometown, Championship Caliber team, playing with an Elite Bigman.
I don't know if Rod & Co., did any favours but Rod definitely thought well of Vince so maybe a slight nod of thanks but at the end of the day it was a business deal for the Nets.

Anyways it is funny (karma..lol) how the "big 3" ended up considering how each departed NJ:
Kidd - Dallas (good team, possible darkhorse but still not the elite of the West)
RJ - Spurs are right up there with Lakers to be there at the end
VC - Magic can possibly duplicate finals return

Imagine RJ & Vince reaching the Finals this coming season...Kidd would be "wtf...! damn!".

halfHAVOC · Post #15 » by **halfHAVOC** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:38 am

theres no favors in business

NetsForce · Post #16 » by **NetsForce** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:09 am

Bad economy = declining salary cap = less suitors for Vince (due to contract / money owed / luxury tax) = less than ideal return for Nets.

I would have liked to keep Ryan Anderson I think he can be an excellent 6th-7th man impact role player... But oh well.

Post #17 » by **jerseyjac** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:32 pm

NetsForce wrote:Bad economy = declining salary cap = less suitors for Vince (due to contract / money owed / luxury tax) = less than ideal return for Nets.

I would have liked to keep Ryan Anderson I think he can be an excellent 6th-7th man impact role player... But oh well.

agreed...both on the return and the fact we let Ryan go...this kid is really young and the flashes of talent we saw from him last year makes me believe he could of been that 6 or 7th impact player off the bench...smart kid, high bball IQ, wants to succeed and knows when he makes a mistake (hard worker, who's only going to get better)