Pittsburgh @ Toronto

NeverGoingToWin · Post #1 » by **NeverGoingToWin** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:49 pm

The word is that Toskala is going to start tonight. Does anybody else think that Raycroft deserved to start again tonight?

jalenrose#5 · Post #2 » by **jalenrose#5** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:53 pm

I personally didn't think Rayzor was tested nearly enough to say he really did well in that game. The game was over by the second period and it looked like the Isles just gave up.

I'm big on redemption and I think Vesa's track record speaks for itself. He deserves the attempt to redeem himself...at least on home ice. If he still stinks, they'll have to make a decision.

TR50 · Post #3 » by **TR50** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:23 pm

Well in Vesa's defense, the game VS the Canes, he played solid and made some big saves until the D fell apart and the wheels came off....

i still think that if Vesa was in goal VS the Isles, we may have even shut them out

ok maybe i'm pushing it

l2RDO · Post #4 » by **l2RDO** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:16 am

Well, Vesa is one of my fantasy goalies, so I dont actually get to watch the games, but looking at the box score I find it hard to blame him for any of his losses. Your D is giving up waaaay to many shots. Tonights game was 27-51 in favor of Pitt. I dont know how well he played, but stopping 51 shots in a game seems like it would be pretty hard to do, especially against a talented Pitt offense.

Post #5 » by **Crowned** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:01 am

It certainly wasn't Vesa's fault tonight...no team should allow 50+ shots in a game and expect to win unless you have a Luongo or Brodeur behind you.

Tor-Rap-Tor · Post #6 » by **Tor-Rap-Tor** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:59 pm

Crowned wrote:It certainly wasn't Vesa's fault tonight...no team should allow 50+ shots in a game and expect to win unless you have a Luongo or Brodeur behind you.

Agreed...

Even Luongo or Brodeur, would have been hard pressed to get a "W" in this game...

They have a very good young team and it can only get better...

whysoserious · Post #7 » by **whysoserious** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:57 pm

Crowned wrote:It certainly wasn't Vesa's fault tonight...no team should allow 50+ shots in a game and expect to win unless you have a Luongo or Brodeur behind you.

And it's too bad we're locked in to McCabe and Kaberle for another 4 yrs with no way to move either of them. Throw in Kubina as well. Personally, I don't mind keeping one of them, preferably Kaberle, but to have all three together on the same team making that kind of money makes no sense whatsoever.

TR50 · Post #8 » by **TR50** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:33 pm

Tor-Rap-Tor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Agreed...

Even Luongo or Brodeur, would have been hard pressed to get a "W" in this game...

They have a very good young team and it can only get better...

def. brodeur let in 5 goals and only had 12 saves last night...

sucks suz i have him on my team

RapsVC15 · Post #9 » by **RapsVC15** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:36 pm

Put any goalie in the world on the Leafs and I guarantee you we'll still have the same problems. We have only one person to blame and thats Ferguson. Too bad he can't make any decisions for himself and lets random fanboys determine what he does with his club. We had a 35+ win goaltender on our hands last year folks, teams die for that kind of numbers from their goaltender. Raycroft was never the problem, it was the "defense" he had in front of him. Ferguson didn't do anything to improve our d and we'll have another 10th place finish to show for it.

Go Leafs Go.

Griff83 · Post #10 » by **Griff83** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:48 pm

TJ11 wrote:Put any goalie in the world on the Leafs and I guarantee you we'll still have the same problems. We have only one person to blame and thats Ferguson. Too bad he can't make any decisions for himself and lets random fanboys determine what he does with his club. We had a 35+ win goaltender on our hands last year folks, teams die for that kind of numbers from their goaltender. Raycroft was never the problem, it was the "defense" he had in front of him. Ferguson didn't do anything to improve our d and we'll have another 10th place finish to show for it.

Go Leafs Go.

Teams die for goalies with sub .900 save percentage stats?

jalenrose#5 · Post #11 » by **jalenrose#5** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:57 pm

BlueJay_ wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Teams die for goalies with sub .900 save percentage stats?

It was sub .900 for a reason, the D blew hard. And now, it still does. Toskala had seasons of 26 and 23 wins with SJ with a high SP% and great GAA. He comes to Toronto and looks like Trevor Kidd.

There's a common problem and that's team defence....not just the defence. I think the Leafs have 2 good lines (Steen/Sundin/Blake and Stajan/Antropov/Poni) but after that, this team is severely lacking. The Leafs are pretty decent @ EVS, but special teams is the downfall of this team. All those 6 players are + players, Also, Gill, Woz, and White are the only + defenseman.

Some notable numbers....

Chad Kilger (supposed to be a PK'er) -8
Darcy Tucker (get him out) -4
Kris Newbury (sees 4 mins a game) -4
McCabe/Kaberle (top D pairing) both -3

Just some examples of players this team doesn't need. Tucker and McCabe especially since they take up about 10 million in cap space.

Griff83 · Post #12 » by **Griff83** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:34 pm

[quote="jalenrose#5"][/quote]

No it was sub .900 because Raycroft is nothing more then a average goalie. Tim Thomas and Olaf Kolzig both played on worse defensive teams last season then Raycroft but where able to post .900+ save percentage numbers. Sure the leafs D was horrible last season but Raycroft wasnt close to being good last season, beyond people hyping up his win totals and that is a flawed argument seeing he played so much and there in no longer ties, so this number is inflated over previous years.

Raycroft is a average goalie, who doesnt make the big saves and has a issue with softies and last time I checked, teams dont die for those kind of goalies.

Post #13 » by **Crowned** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:04 pm

I'd like to address those "soft" goals that Raycroft apparently let it that cost us several wins. How many of them were from players that were completely open, and able to pick corners? How many were from defensive breakdowns? How many were from odd man rushes? I'd hate to tell you, but those defensive breakdowns are extremely tough on goaltenders. You not only have to face the shooter (who has all the time in the world to pick corners, which is easy for any NHL calibre player), but you have to concentrate on players breaking down on you as well (the leafs struggled at times covering the player breaking down from the off wing). When players are able to completely emerge from a wing (while not covered), serious problems could then occur....they could rotate into the middle, they can park themselves beside the net, infront of the net, behind the net.

Again, out of the "softies" that Raycroft let in, I can guarantee it was from a defensive breakdown, odd man rush, or from a player failing to backcheck. Not to mention the defenders failing to clear rebounds (partly Raycroft's fault). It's been said for as long as hockey has existed, the goaltender should have to make the first save, everything else is in the defenders hands.

Raycroft did struggle at times, like any young goaltender, and did let in weak goals...but to blame him for our poor record is ridiculous. He's not a great goalie, and we had such great expectations for him because he plays for the Leafs...he played fine....as did Toskala in his starts.

Griff83 · Post #14 » by **Griff83** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:46 pm

Crowned wrote:I'd like to address those "soft" goals that Raycroft apparently let it that cost us several wins. How many of them were from players that were completely open, and able to pick corners? How many were from defensive breakdowns? How many were from odd man rushes? I'd hate to tell you, but those defensive breakdowns are extremely tough on goaltenders. You not only have to face the shooter (who has all the time in the world to pick corners, which is easy for any NHL calibre player), but you have to concentrate on players breaking down on you as well (the leafs struggled at times covering the player breaking down from the off wing). When players are able to completely emerge from a wing (while not covered), serious problems could then occur....they could rotate into the middle, they can park themselves beside the net, infront of the net, behind the net.

Again, out of the "softies" that Raycroft let in, I can guarantee it was from a defensive breakdown, odd man rush, or from a player failing to backcheck. Not to mention the defenders failing to clear rebounds (partly Raycroft's fault). It's been said for as long as hockey has existed, the goaltender should have to make the first save, everything else is in the defenders hands.

Raycroft did struggle at times, like any young goaltender, and did let in weak goals...but to blame him for our poor record is ridiculous. He's not a great goalie, and we had such great expectations for him because he plays for the Leafs...he played fine....as did Toskala in his starts.

No there were plenty of softies that he let with his glove that werent caused by some sort of defensive breakdown. At no point in either of my two previous posts was I blaming Raycroft for this teams overall record, just stating that teams arent dying for goalies with sub .900 sv %'s. Everyone talks about his 35 wins etc etc, but considering he played so much of the teams games and there is no longer ties, im not too impressed with his win total.

Post #15 » by **Crowned** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:40 am

Crowned wrote:I'd like to address those "soft" goals that Raycroft apparently let it that cost us several wins. How many of them were from players that were completely open, and able to pick corners? How many were from defensive breakdowns? How many were from odd man rushes? I'd hate to tell you, but those defensive breakdowns are extremely tough on goaltenders. You not only have to face the shooter (who has all the time in the world to pick corners, which is easy for any NHL calibre player), but you have to concentrate on players breaking down on you as well (the leafs struggled at times covering the player breaking down from the off wing). When players are able to completely emerge from a wing (while not covered), serious problems could then occur....they could rotate into the middle, they can park themselves beside the net, infront of the net, behind the net.

Again, out of the "softies" that Raycroft let in, I can guarantee it was from a defensive breakdown, odd man rush, or from a player failing to backcheck. Not to mention the defenders failing to clear rebounds (partly Raycroft's fault). It's been said for as long as hockey has existed, the goaltender should have to make the first save, everything else is in the defenders hands.

Raycroft did struggle at times, like any young goaltender, and did let in weak goals...but to blame him for our poor record is ridiculous. He's not a great goalie, and we had such great expectations for him because he plays for the Leafs...he played fine....as did Toskala in his starts.

BUMP!

See what I mean? I've read posts elsewhere, and even talked to people who have blamed the loss on Raycroft tonight...this team is a mess defensively.