What could these Leaf Players fetch in the trade market?

[Mr Swagtastic]

Alright here's the thing.

I personally think Kaberle will net you MORE than Sundin. He's entering the prime of his career at 31-32 years old, he's making 4 million per year with 2 years left on his deal, and he's a #1 defenseman which every team salivates for. Teams would have a bidding war for him. So I think we really should be asking for more for him.

Sundin is pretty obvious what you can get, top notch prospects and high draft choices. But remember, he is a rental player. If we traded him last year we could have really demanded more because he had a team option on his contract. But that's not there anymore. The fact is, if a team wants Sundin they're going to have to break the bank to get him, Fletcher will not give him away for nothing.

bingo, short term = Sundin longterm for a rebuilding team Kabrle.

Kabrle is a great defensemen on a bad team. He's always seemed to put up a respectable +/- and is always is in the league lead for takeaways and points among d-men. Why would they move him? Unless they somehow tear down the team and start from nothing or they get serious talent. I don't see them wanting to move him at all, you need a great defensemen to build around. I think defensemen are harder to find then fowards. Sundin is a exception can't go wrong with a guy whose put up 60-70+ points longterm.

[emfive]

I have a different opinion of Kaberle. His plus minus even on a bad team when compared to others on his team is not impressive in the least.

I would love to see these giveaway takeaway stats. As I understand it, the league will not keep the stats. Also, as I understand it, the Ducks were at the bottom of the list in these stats. I am pretty sure no one knows what they mean at this point.

I will tell you watching that guy in his own end is not a pretty thing unless he has the puck. There would be more than a dozen guys I would rather have than him back there.

However, for the Leafs sake I would suggest be promote the other point of view and get him out in a nice package coming back.

[ansoncarter]

I will tell you watching that guy in his own end is not a pretty thing unless he has the puck. There would be more than a dozen guys I would rather have than him back there.

me too. Even though he isn't terrible or anytthing, he isn't all that slick defensively

[Crowned]

Eklund raised some good points recently (I know, I know).

He basically suggested that by trading Kaberle to a Western Conference team (specifically a powerhouse), it'd force additional teams to make a harder push for the likes of Sundin and Tucker to offset a Kaberle acquisition.

Also, Cliff Fletcher was brought in to make trades...plain and simple. If the Leafs wanted to stand pat, they would've allowed Ferguson to ride out the rest of the season, and decline larger trades he would propose to the board.

[emfive]

Eklund raised some good points recently (I know, I know).

He basically suggested that by trading Kaberle to a Western Conference team (specifically a powerhouse), it'd force additional teams to make a harder push for the likes of Sundin and Tucker to offset a Kaberle acquisition.

Also, Cliff Fletcher was brought in to make trades...plain and simple. If the Leafs wanted to stand pat, they would've allowed Ferguson to ride out the rest of the season, and decline larger trades he would propose to the board.

I know this is heresy. But I would hang on to Sundin unless I got an offer I could not refuse or Sundin refused to go. I would rather sign him to 2 more years at the same money, if possible. Tricky I know. Keep Kubina. Trade Kaberle, McCabe, Tucker, Antropov and anyone else over 26 who would bring something, even if it were a 2nd to 4th rounder. I also have no use for White.

Having said that Mas' comments on Ecklund come into play re Sundin. If someone got stupid ... well ... I would trade anyone and so would Cliff.

Re Tucker and his no trade. I know it is not Cliff's style but I would point out that the only place in TO he was sure of playing was a little further north between Dufferin and Bathurst St. I would also point out that losing him at 1/2 price on the way back up might not bother me that much. Of course, that I could not control were he was playing then. Cliff might manage to point that out nicely.

Tell Mikey it was just business.

[Griff83]

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I know this is heresy. But I would hang on to Sundin unless I got an offer I could not refuse or Sundin refused to go. I would rather sign him to 2 more years at the same money, if possible. Tricky I know. Keep Kubina. Trade Kaberle, McCabe, Tucker, Antropov and anyone else over 26 who would bring something, even if it were a 2nd to 4th rounder. I also have no use for White.

Having said that Mas' comments on Ecklund come into play re Sundin. If someone got stupid ... well ... I would trade anyone and so would Cliff.

Re Tucker and his no trade. I know it is not Cliff's style but I would point out that the only place in TO he was sure of playing was a little further north between Dufferin and Bathurst St. I would also point out that losing him at 1/2 price on the way back up might not bother me that much. Of course, that I could not control were he was playing then. Cliff might manage to point that out nicely.

Tell Mikey it was just business.

What id like to see Happen is Mats being traded with a behind closed door handshake that he will return in the offseason via free agency. I know reports are starting to grow that alot of the teams in the hunt for Sundin are pushing that he signs a extension with them when they trade for him. This means no return for Mats, but a higher return in terms of assets(so you have to make the decision what youd rather have). If Fletcher was able to sell off Kubina, Tucker and trade Sundin to a contender, it would leave the Leafs some cap space to work with next summer and in the process adding some great young pieces like (Hudler, Kessler, Setoguchi types), 1st round picks via Mats trade and having a very high first rounder ourselves seeing we will stink when Mats goes.

these are 3 deals id make at the deadline. I havent taken into account the exact cap numbers for each team and if they can make it fit, but ill try to be realistic.

1). Mats Sundin to Vancounver for Ryan Kesler, Luc Bourdon and 2008 first rounder.

2). Pavel Kubina to Boston for David Kreci, 4th rounder

3.). Darcy Tucker/Ian White to Dallas for Trevor Daly, 2nd rounder in 2008

shed lots of salary in the process, add some quality picks outside the first round and bring back some good young players in the process. Then take the saved cap space and throw a nice offer sheet at one of the young restricted free agents.

[kelso]

Fetcher and Mats will be speaking this week- if he doens't want to be traded, then sign him for 2 more years at 5mil and shut everyone up. Mats is well worth the money and as good or better then anything we would sign at the same money.

Deal ANYTHING else on the roster other than Toskala for picks, prospects, cap relief. After Feb 26th, whatever bloated contracts you have left, buy them out and start over. Go into July 1st with cap space and a ton of draft picks from this year (with more picks for next year). Buy a first line for Sundin to play with (unless you got a few wingers in the deals you made) and build the team out from goal.

I would be okay with keeping either of Kaberle or McCabe, but not Kubina. You need to buy him out if you can't trade him as 5mil for that pantload is unacceptable.

[Griff83]

Fetcher and Mats will be speaking this week- if he doens't want to be traded, then sign him for 2 more years at 5mil and shut everyone up. Mats is well worth the money and as good or better then anything we would sign at the same money.

Deal ANYTHING else on the roster other than Toskala for picks, prospects, cap relief. After Feb 26th, whatever bloated contracts you have left, buy them out and start over. Go into July 1st with cap space and a ton of draft picks from this year (with more picks for next year). Buy a first line for Sundin to play with (unless you got a few wingers in the deals you made) and build the team out from goal.

I would be okay with keeping either of Kaberle or McCabe, but not Kubina. You need to buy him out if you can't trade him as 5mil for that pantload is unacceptable.

Ya that would be a ideal plan if Mats does indeed to say no to Fletcher about agreeing to be dealt and waive his NTC. In this scenario we'd be left with really any valuable players in trade besides Kaberle. Im not totally against trading him if they return is a overpayment. If I was to trade Kaberle the Sharks are the team id contact instantly as they badly need a puckmoving defencemen who can be efficient on the powerplay. They also have some awesome young players that you would look to add in any Kaberle trade. Im not sure they would go for either of these deals but you could put together some good ones.

Kaberle for Bernier, Ehrhoff, 2008 first rounder

Kaberle for Pavelski, Carle, pick

With Kulemin coming over next season along with a player like Bernier, Dustin Boyd types, would greatly improve the teams overall skill up front and thats one of the areas that needs to be adressed. Even though this team scores a decent amount of goals, the overall talent on forward is mediocre in terms to most teams. I think the reason this team scored so many goals to start the year was more to do with the teams style and pace more then the fact they have alot of good goal scorers (at the start of the season they played at a faster, more uncontrolable pace and this resulted in alot of bad defensive play).

The only problem with keeping Mats around past the deadline is the variance it could have on this years first round pick. If we were to deal Mats, this team would be guranteed to have a top 5 pick and with a good chance to nab a top 3 pick where the franchise changers are this year (Stamoks, Doughty, Pietrangelo). Those 3 are in my opinion 3 future cornerstones. If we keep Mats I get the feeling this team will crawl out of the basement and end up finishing about 10th in the east and resulting in another pick in the 11-13 range and we need more then that imo.

[kelso]

Yes, it'tough to tell Mats, "We'll extend you, but for the rest of the year do you mind taking it easy and mailing it in?". It would be so Toronto for us to finish in the 9-11 spot and get a middle round pick and watch other teams build with better prospects.

I'm not sold on Doughty. I wasn't at all impressed with him at the World Juniors and in the prospects game the other night he looked very ordinary. I think I'd much prefer Pietrangelo or Schenn.

Another example of the effect of good management- the Ducks sit 6th overall in the NHL standings, yer through trades they currently would have the 8th pick in the draft.

EDIT: they get the 8th pick because of Edmonton signing Penner- my bad.

[Griff83]

Yes, it'tough to tell Mats, "We'll extend you, but for the rest of the year do you mind taking it easy and mailing it in?". It would be so Toronto for us to finish in the 9-11 spot and get a middle round pick and watch other teams build with better prospects.

I'm not sold on Doughty. I wasn't at all impressed with him at the World Juniors and in the prospects game the other night he looked very ordinary. I think I'd much prefer Pietrangelo or Schenn.

Another example of the effect of good management- the Ducks sit 6th overall in the NHL standings, yer through trades they currently would have the 8th pick in the draft.

EDIT: they get the 8th pick because of Edmonton signing Penner- my bad.

Doughty looked good in spurts and on a few plays you could really see the elite level skill he has but I thought his defensive game was sometimes suspect. Great with the puck, good speed and good vision. I like Pietrangelo the best after Stamkos and think he will turn into a Pronger type blueliner only with better skating. If we were to get a pick 4-6, id prolly rather trade down to 10 and look to add a young player along the way. 6 thru 15 this season seems to be fairly even.

Bottom line this team needs to hit a homerun at this draft.

[LieCheatSteal]

Richards will not be moved in Philly. He's on a long, long contract now. Carter perhaps.

I doubt you're going to get a good value for any of these players. Sundin will probably get you a Forsberg to Nashville type of deal.

Here's what I'm thinking each player will probably get you, if all were available and all would be traded by themselves:

1) NHL player, high prospect and a pick (1st): Sundin

2) high prospect and a pick (1st): Kaberle

3) pick (1-2): Tlusty, Steen, Toskala

4) mid prospect or a pick (2nd-4th): Gill, Blake, Antropov, Ponikarovsky, Stajan, Colaiacovo, Kubina, White, Strahlman

5) mid round pick (3rd-5th): Tucker, Belak, Wellwood, Belak, McCabe, Wozniewski,

6) marginal prospect or cash: Devereaux, Raycroft, Kilger, Pohl, Moore, Bell

[emfive]

Fetcher and Mats will be speaking this week- if he doens't want to be traded, then sign him for 2 more years at 5mil and shut everyone up. Mats is well worth the money and as good or better then anything we would sign at the same money.

Deal ANYTHING else on the roster other than Toskala for picks, prospects, cap relief. After Feb 26th, whatever bloated contracts you have left, buy them out and start over. Go into July 1st with cap space and a ton of draft picks from this year (with more picks for next year). Buy a first line for Sundin to play with (unless you got a few wingers in the deals you made) and build the team out from goal.

I would be okay with keeping either of Kaberle or McCabe, but not Kubina. You need to buy him out if you can't trade him as 5mil for that pantload is unacceptable.

Kubina is playing better than Kaberle and better than McCabe has for 2 seasons. The increased ice time has done him good. Also you would get a lot more for Kaberle than Kubina. Also Kaberle does not provide the leadership young defencemen would need. You can sign that later. When the Leafs are ready to contend neither of those two better be your best defenceman.

Trading Toskala would help your draft position and might bring a good return from a contending team whose goaltending has been shaky. I feel that Raycroft will be better without expectations. If he still stinks it is win ... win. Pogge is turning into the guy they will need down the road anyway.

Keep Sundin if the return is not exemplary!

[Griff83]

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Kubina is playing better than Kaberle and better than McCabe has for 2 seasons. The increased ice time has done him good. Also you would get a lot more for Kaberle than Kubina. Also Kaberle does not provide the leadership young defencemen would need. You can sign that later. When the Leafs are ready to contend neither of those two better be your best defenceman.

Trading Toskala would help your draft position and might bring a good return from a contending team whose goaltending has been shaky. I feel that Raycroft will be better without expectations. If he still stinks it is win ... win. Pogge is turning into the guy they will need down the road anyway.
Keep Sundin if the return is not exemplary!

Theres no way I deal Toskala.

Tampa Bay is a perfect example of a team that once it gave away there good goalie in Khabbibulin, they have struggled to find a #1 and coincedently they have struggled to be a playoff team and its mostly to do with sparactic goaltending. Toronto traded away such a hefty price just to aquire a #1 goalie (in sense Rask, 1st rounder and 2nd rounder) and Toskala has proved he can be a good to above average goalie. Theres nothing guranteed with Pogge, he could come in and live up to expectations of some fans and be a good #1 but theres also a decent chance he doesnt and becomes nothing more then a Mediocre goalie. Id feel really dissapointed if they traded away Toskala.

[emfive]

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Theres no way I deal Toskala.

Tampa Bay is a perfect example of a team that once it gave away there good goalie in Khabbibulin, they have struggled to find a #1 and coincedently they have struggled to be a playoff team and its mostly to do with sparactic goaltending. Toronto traded away such a hefty price just to aquire a #1 goalie (in sense Rask, 1st rounder and 2nd rounder) and Toskala has proved he can be a good to above average goalie. Theres nothing guranteed with Pogge, he could come in and live up to expectations of some fans and be a good #1 but theres also a decent chance he doesnt and becomes nothing more then a Mediocre goalie. Id feel really dissapointed if they traded away Toskala.

I don't believe that the Leaf's GM will be as rash or as I would be. I cannot disagree wtith what you posted. It is a lot hockey smarter than my post. But if Toskala plays the way he has be playing they is a very good chance that the Leafs will not be drafting Stamkos this year or Tavares or whoever next year ... unless they are willing to deal a large part of their roster. (You must admit that there might not be as much of a drop off in replacements on the current roster, unless they are totally ruthless.) I suppose that is my worry and the Leaf Nation's dilemna.

That Peddie now and for the future comment has me quaking in my boots.

[Griff83]

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I don't believe that the Leaf's GM will be as rash or as I would be. I cannot disagree wtith what you posted. It is a lot hockey smarter than my post. But if Toskala plays the way he has be playing they is a very good chance that the Leafs will not be drafting Stamkos this year or Tavares or whoever next year ... unless they are willing to deal a large part of their roster. (You must admit that there might not be as much of a drop off in replacements on the current roster, unless they are totally ruthless.) I suppose that is my worry and the Leaf Nation's dilemna.

That Peddie now and for the future comment has me quaking in my boots.

Well I think if we deal Sundin at the deadline, it wouldnt matter how much Toskala stood on his head after because that team will struggle to win a single game once Mats is gone. I guess my worry is this team will go on a little run in the next 2 weeks to put themselves in a position where it would be almost impossible spot to trade your captain. As much as anyone ive been advocating rebuilding, but you can even perform a decent rebuild situation in one-two offseasons. Put Kulemin, the young player recieved from Mats trade (Kesler, Filpula etc), out first rounder which will most likely be top 5 and a resigned Mats this team would have alot more firepower up front.

This team really needs to develop a better 3rd and fourth line.