Oops .... never mind.
How can we fix the Leaf's
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whysoserious
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I haven't read the entire thread so I don't know what's been suggested.
Here's what I would do:
Remove Peddie from all dealings with the on-ice operation.
Bring in Scotty Bowman as President and GM of the Maple Leafs. Bowman would report directly to the board and has the final say on all decisions.
Fire both Ferguson and Maurice. Still think PM is a good coach but things just aren't working out here. Let Acton coach the team short term and eye getting Muller out of Montreal to be your future head coach.
Hire Glenn Healy as his assistant GM and groom him to take over the roll.
Then I would try and move Tucker, Blake, McCabe, Kubina, Bell, Gill, Raycroft, and possibly even Toskala. In making these moves I'd be looking for as many prospects and picks as possible. Picks would be for the 08 and 09 draft possibly eying as many picks for the 09 draft as possible in hopes of making a major move to move up in the top of the draft if we don't end up with the number one pick.
If both goalies are moved, I'd bring Pogge and let him play as many games as possible. Also, I'd bring up as many guys from the AHL as possible that you think could be legit NHL'ers for you and let them just go out and have fun.
I would avoid going out and trying to make a big splash this off-season if you are able to clear capspace and hold off for one more season. Let the young guys continue to play, hope for a high pick in 09 (eyeing Tavares) and make a big splash that off-season.
Obviously a lot of these moves are going to be hard to make but I'd still try and make them as much as possible, even if you have to eat some salary for a season or two.
Here's what I would do:
Remove Peddie from all dealings with the on-ice operation.
Bring in Scotty Bowman as President and GM of the Maple Leafs. Bowman would report directly to the board and has the final say on all decisions.
Fire both Ferguson and Maurice. Still think PM is a good coach but things just aren't working out here. Let Acton coach the team short term and eye getting Muller out of Montreal to be your future head coach.
Hire Glenn Healy as his assistant GM and groom him to take over the roll.
Then I would try and move Tucker, Blake, McCabe, Kubina, Bell, Gill, Raycroft, and possibly even Toskala. In making these moves I'd be looking for as many prospects and picks as possible. Picks would be for the 08 and 09 draft possibly eying as many picks for the 09 draft as possible in hopes of making a major move to move up in the top of the draft if we don't end up with the number one pick.
If both goalies are moved, I'd bring Pogge and let him play as many games as possible. Also, I'd bring up as many guys from the AHL as possible that you think could be legit NHL'ers for you and let them just go out and have fun.
I would avoid going out and trying to make a big splash this off-season if you are able to clear capspace and hold off for one more season. Let the young guys continue to play, hope for a high pick in 09 (eyeing Tavares) and make a big splash that off-season.
Obviously a lot of these moves are going to be hard to make but I'd still try and make them as much as possible, even if you have to eat some salary for a season or two.
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Griff83
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vc_dunkchamp wrote:I haven't read the entire thread so I don't know what's been suggested.
Here's what I would do:
Remove Peddie from all dealings with the on-ice operation.
Bring in Scotty Bowman as President and GM of the Maple Leafs. Bowman would report directly to the board and has the final say on all decisions.
Fire both Ferguson and Maurice. Still think PM is a good coach but things just aren't working out here. Let Acton coach the team short term and eye getting Muller out of Montreal to be your future head coach.
Hire Glenn Healy as his assistant GM and groom him to take over the roll.
Then I would try and move Tucker, Blake, McCabe, Kubina, Bell, Gill, Raycroft, and possibly even Toskala. In making these moves I'd be looking for as many prospects and picks as possible. Picks would be for the 08 and 09 draft possibly eying as many picks for the 09 draft as possible in hopes of making a major move to move up in the top of the draft if we don't end up with the number one pick.
If both goalies are moved, I'd bring Pogge and let him play as many games as possible. Also, I'd bring up as many guys from the AHL as possible that you think could be legit NHL'ers for you and let them just go out and have fun.
I would avoid going out and trying to make a big splash this off-season if you are able to clear capspace and hold off for one more season. Let the young guys continue to play, hope for a high pick in 09 (eyeing Tavares) and make a big splash that off-season.
Obviously a lot of these moves are going to be hard to make but I'd still try and make them as much as possible, even if you have to eat some salary for a season or two.
You wouldnt deal Sundin?
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whysoserious
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BlueJay_ wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
You wouldnt deal Sundin?
I forgot to add that part but it would be my last move after I've exhausted all the other moves. Sundin could definitely net you something of significant value.
I wouldn't be too upset in keeping him either, the cap relief would be fine and not re-sign him this off-season or just sign him on the cheap.
If I was able to make those other moves, I'd consider keeping Sundin for the season. If I was having trouble, which is more than likely than I would look to move Sundin.
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Crowned
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Marmoset wrote:A few thoughts:
Kubina was a top defenceman with Tampa Bay 4 seasons ago. That doesn't make him a top defenceman now. If it was a year or two after that Cup season, I might go for the argument that it's his situation or he's having a down year, but he simply has not played to that level since coming to Toronto. Injuries have probably played a role, but that doesn't change the result, and doesn't make it any easier to trade him.
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You're going to honestly say that Kubina isn't a top 4 defenseman on a team?
His contract aside, he's a good defenseman. Is he worth the contract? No, but that isn't his problem. Let's cut him some slack here, because he is a good player.
Everyone views a contract, looks at his statistical production...and basis conclusions from there. You simply cannot do that with a defenseman...which is what myself and everyone else did on here last season. If you had watched Kubina closely this season, you would've noticed that he was easily our best defenseman...and yes, he was better than Kaberle.
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whysoserious
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Crowned wrote:lol @ all this Toskala hate.
If he had a defensive core that wasn't comparable to the Orillia Minor Peewee selects, he'd be looking great. If Justin Pogge doesn't pan out, who do we have?
As it stands, I'd trade everyone except Kaberle, Steen, Wellwood, Toskala and our prospects.
I wouldn't absolutely have to trade Toskala but I would try as I believe you could get some good value for him.
If Pogge doesn't pan out we are in trouble but if you acquire enough assets you can get another goalie.
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Pchu
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Here is my idea:
Everything has to start at the top, I am convinced that no team can win anything when Peddie is around. So Peddie has to go. Reassign him to someplace, or better yet, fire him.
Let JFJ go, he is done at this point. His reputation is ruined already, so there is no point in being a lame duck GM.
Hire Scotty Bowman as the president of kockey operations and he will be the interim GM as well. You can't get a more respected hockey man than Scotty Bowman. Let him do the GM search, and I would bet he would find a good quality hockey GM.
I like Maurice enough to let him stick around for the remainder of the season. Let him go if the new GM doesn't want him there.
In the short term, they have to trade the older players and bring in as many draft picks and prospects as possible. Unfortunately, that means you have to trade Mats Sundin. He is still very valuable and he will get you a good package of prospects. Sundin is nothing but a class act, and it will be sad to see him go.
Some will be harder to trade than others. I have a hard time seeing anyone would want McCabe and Kubina with their contracts. Antropov and perhaps Tucker should be easier to move.
Keep one of the goaltenders and trade the other one if possible. Not sure if Pogge is ready, so having another goalie is just an insurance; I don't care which one we keep.
That's my plan so far. Nothing too dramatic yet. As long as Peddie is gone, then they have a good start.
Everything has to start at the top, I am convinced that no team can win anything when Peddie is around. So Peddie has to go. Reassign him to someplace, or better yet, fire him.
Let JFJ go, he is done at this point. His reputation is ruined already, so there is no point in being a lame duck GM.
Hire Scotty Bowman as the president of kockey operations and he will be the interim GM as well. You can't get a more respected hockey man than Scotty Bowman. Let him do the GM search, and I would bet he would find a good quality hockey GM.
I like Maurice enough to let him stick around for the remainder of the season. Let him go if the new GM doesn't want him there.
In the short term, they have to trade the older players and bring in as many draft picks and prospects as possible. Unfortunately, that means you have to trade Mats Sundin. He is still very valuable and he will get you a good package of prospects. Sundin is nothing but a class act, and it will be sad to see him go.
Some will be harder to trade than others. I have a hard time seeing anyone would want McCabe and Kubina with their contracts. Antropov and perhaps Tucker should be easier to move.
Keep one of the goaltenders and trade the other one if possible. Not sure if Pogge is ready, so having another goalie is just an insurance; I don't care which one we keep.
That's my plan so far. Nothing too dramatic yet. As long as Peddie is gone, then they have a good start.
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Tor-Rap-Tor
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There are some pretty good ideas here but...
If JFJ is replaced, who will take this job mid season, we need a really good GM to take over, even if it is for a short term, someone that can assess talent and is familiar with the nuances of cap restriction, some of the names bandied about, were big name players but can they do this job. If JFJ is a rookie what in the world are these guys, they were good players but could they be good GM's, thats a crap shoot...
There are some people out there that can do the job, Muckler or Cliff Fletcher comes to mind and at end of season they would replace Peddie as the president of hockey operations, better still, would be to place them in that capacity right now and evaluate the team and let him make the decisions on who goes and who stays and to mentor JFJ or be it, replace him but either way we need someone, that knows hockey and has been a good GM. My preference is Muckler, he is more current and has been a GM in the new era of the cap and was the architect of a good team like Ottawa...
We are just over a quarter of the way into the season and we are already out for blood, if we blow up the team, how many of us are willing to watch the team for the rest of the season go down the pipe, this is what will probably happen if we trade players, like Sundin, McCabe, Kubina, Kaberle or even Antropov and receive back prospects and draft choices, this will set us up for the future but right now, we will still suck and will have no chance, to get back into contention this year or maybe even next year or... when after that?
Certainly changes will have to be made but in an orderly fashion, I have been advocating getting rid of Maurice because I think he has lost the confidence of the team and they look completely disorganized but in a recent interview, players like Mats Sundin and Jason Blake say no, that it's the players that are not performing up to par and that injuries and their bad play has cause this, giving Maurice a vote of confidence. Only a good hockey person in authority can determine where the problem lies and can make these changes but in any changes, make sure you have the right person waiting in the wings, to come in and do the job, after all it's team improvement that is the goal, not to slash and burn with no plan in place...
If JFJ is replaced, who will take this job mid season, we need a really good GM to take over, even if it is for a short term, someone that can assess talent and is familiar with the nuances of cap restriction, some of the names bandied about, were big name players but can they do this job. If JFJ is a rookie what in the world are these guys, they were good players but could they be good GM's, thats a crap shoot...
There are some people out there that can do the job, Muckler or Cliff Fletcher comes to mind and at end of season they would replace Peddie as the president of hockey operations, better still, would be to place them in that capacity right now and evaluate the team and let him make the decisions on who goes and who stays and to mentor JFJ or be it, replace him but either way we need someone, that knows hockey and has been a good GM. My preference is Muckler, he is more current and has been a GM in the new era of the cap and was the architect of a good team like Ottawa...
We are just over a quarter of the way into the season and we are already out for blood, if we blow up the team, how many of us are willing to watch the team for the rest of the season go down the pipe, this is what will probably happen if we trade players, like Sundin, McCabe, Kubina, Kaberle or even Antropov and receive back prospects and draft choices, this will set us up for the future but right now, we will still suck and will have no chance, to get back into contention this year or maybe even next year or... when after that?
Certainly changes will have to be made but in an orderly fashion, I have been advocating getting rid of Maurice because I think he has lost the confidence of the team and they look completely disorganized but in a recent interview, players like Mats Sundin and Jason Blake say no, that it's the players that are not performing up to par and that injuries and their bad play has cause this, giving Maurice a vote of confidence. Only a good hockey person in authority can determine where the problem lies and can make these changes but in any changes, make sure you have the right person waiting in the wings, to come in and do the job, after all it's team improvement that is the goal, not to slash and burn with no plan in place...
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whysoserious
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I can't argue with Muckler as a possiblity.
What I would do is give Mucler or my choice Bowman the Presidency now. Let them try and clear out the capspace and and gain some prospects and picks. Then the GM's job becomes more enticing come the off-season.
I still like the idea of Bowman getting the President and GM title with Healy as his assistant.
Firing Maurice and letting one of the assistants take over for the rest of the season and possibly bring in Muller as the new coach.
That is a strong looking hockey department with Bowman, Healy and Muller. Possibly even bringing in Gilmour in some sort of capacity.
What I would do is give Mucler or my choice Bowman the Presidency now. Let them try and clear out the capspace and and gain some prospects and picks. Then the GM's job becomes more enticing come the off-season.
I still like the idea of Bowman getting the President and GM title with Healy as his assistant.
Firing Maurice and letting one of the assistants take over for the rest of the season and possibly bring in Muller as the new coach.
That is a strong looking hockey department with Bowman, Healy and Muller. Possibly even bringing in Gilmour in some sort of capacity.
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Tor-Rap-Tor
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vc_dunkchamp wrote:I can't argue with Muckler as a possiblity.
What I would do is give Mucler or my choice Bowman the Presidency now. Let them try and clear out the capspace and and gain some prospects and picks. Then the GM's job becomes more enticing come the off-season.
I still like the idea of Bowman getting the President and GM title with Healy as his assistant.
Firing Maurice and letting one of the assistants take over for the rest of the season and possibly bring in Muller as the new coach.
That is a strong looking hockey department with Bowman, Healy and Muller. Possibly even bringing in Gilmour in some sort of capacity.
That does sound like a strong hockey dept...
Some of the reasons I didn't mention Bowman are...
First we should hire someone on a short term contract, say a 2 year tenure, Scotty wants job security and wants more years but we can re-up a person after 2 years and it makes more sense to do it in 2 year terms, instead of say five years guaranteed and if things don't work out, after 2 years get someone else...
Secondly Scotty was GM in Buffalo and was let go because it didn't work and after only a short term (go figure)...
Thirdly he has repeatedly said he doesn't want the job and is happy where he is, so I have dismissed him for the job but in every case, one can never say never and he is a good hockey mind, no question about it...
When a person takes over for Peddie and if it's now instead of later, he will have time to evaluate where we are and make changes, the key here is... DUMP PEDDIE NOW!
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Marmoset
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Crowned wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
You're going to honestly say that Kubina isn't a top 4 defenseman on a team?
His contract aside, he's a good defenseman. Is he worth the contract? No, but that isn't his problem. Let's cut him some slack here, because he is a good player.
Everyone views a contract, looks at his statistical production...and basis conclusions from there. You simply cannot do that with a defenseman...which is what myself and everyone else did on here last season. If you had watched Kubina closely this season, you would've noticed that he was easily our best defenseman...and yes, he was better than Kaberle.
Of course he's a top 4 defenceman on most teams. My comment was directed at the suggestion that just because he was the number one guy in Tampa several seasons ago, he is still a top-notch guy now. I haven't seen much evidence of the guy that was a star for the Lightning.
I also agree that Kaberle hasn't been too good this year, and you can make a case that Kubina has been better. But don't forget that Kaberle has picked up some of the offensive load which McCabe hasn't produced.
I totally disagree with you on Toskala though - an average team in front of him would make him look good, but he's just not a top-notch goalie - at least he's not showing it now. You can't say that all the goals he's been giving up or solely because of the defence - there have been a lot of goals that a top-tier goalie would not let in. Still, he's a big step above Raycroft, so I can't complain that much about it.
But we agree in principle about the general direction - they need to blow it up! I'd go even further than you - while I would not look to trade Wellwood, or Toskala, or even Kaberle, I would if the right offer was there. Ther is not a single player in the Leafs organization that is the equivalent of a Chris Bosh, T.J. Ford, Andrea Bargnani, or maybe even Jose Calderon - guys you would not trade unless a star or a top-notch prospect is coming back.
Interestingly enough, I'm only in this part of the board because I got bored with the Raptors game since it was over so early.
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emfive
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I am saying it again. The Leafs need to send some of their fat contracts down to the Marlies. It will cause a very healthy stir in the dressing room and the only price is money. It is the only loophole in that CBA and NJ and the Flyers employed it to great effect.
The papers should pick up on this and start pressuring MLSE to get their arses (padded by their fat wallets) moving on this pronto.
The papers should pick up on this and start pressuring MLSE to get their arses (padded by their fat wallets) moving on this pronto.
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Mak
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emfive wrote:I am saying it again. The Leafs need to send some of their fat contracts down to the Marlies. It will cause a very healthy stir in the dressing room and the only price is money. It is the only loophole in that CBA and NJ and the Flyers employed it to great effect.
The papers should pick up on this and start pressuring MLSE to get their arses (padded by their fat wallets) moving on this pronto.
Really does not help though? Just pissing off players that are signed to long term contracts. Although it would be nice, it is not never happening.
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emfive
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Mak wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Really does not help though? Just pissing off players that are signed to long term contracts. Although it would be nice, it is not never happening.
Sadly, I absolutely agree that it will not happen.
However, JFJ made some mistakes in terms of contracts. It takes courage to fix mistakes. What disappoints me most about JFJ was that I thought he had that sort of courage. Apparently he does not. Do you think Lamorello would hesitate?
JFJ has made some players wealthy beyond their just desserts. Does he owe them even more?
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Crowned
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Mak wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Really does not help though? Just pissing off players that are signed to long term contracts. Although it would be nice, it is not never happening.
Agreed. It wouldn't exactly look good on us when pursiong free agents in the future, especially if we're looking to send guys like Gill and Kubina down.
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emfive
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Crowned wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Agreed. It wouldn't exactly look good on us when pursiong free agents in the future, especially if we're looking to send guys like Gill and Kubina down.
I was thinking one or both of the goalies and Tucker. Gill and Kubina have been useful. Tucker brings something to the table but I would prefer my 170 pounders to have better hands and quickness.
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whysoserious
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During the hotstove last night in the 2nd intermission, they mentioned that there's a possibility of one of the big three in Tampa being available due to the sale of the team not going through.
Obviously if they had their choice they would move Marty but if I'm the Leafs I would be doing every and anything to get my hands on either of Lecavalier or Richards if this is true.
It's more like a salary dump from their perspective so I don't know what they'd be willing to give up.
Acquire one of them and then send down a big contract to the Marlies.
Obviously if they had their choice they would move Marty but if I'm the Leafs I would be doing every and anything to get my hands on either of Lecavalier or Richards if this is true.
It's more like a salary dump from their perspective so I don't know what they'd be willing to give up.
Acquire one of them and then send down a big contract to the Marlies.
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Tor-Rap-Tor
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vc_dunkchamp wrote:During the hotstove last night in the 2nd intermission, they mentioned that there's a possibility of one of the big three in Tampa being available due to the sale of the team not going through.
Obviously if they had their choice they would move Marty but if I'm the Leafs I would be doing every and anything to get my hands on either of Lecavalier or Richards if this is true.
It's more like a salary dump from their perspective so I don't know what they'd be willing to give up.
Acquire one of them and then send down a big contract to the Marlies.
If Lecavalier is going on the block, I too would like to get him for sure and as they need a goalie, maybe Raycroft and Sundin but Mats may not waive his NTC and they are not going anywhere in the play-offs. Mats is the only player that would be a salary dump because he is only signed for this year...
Sending a big contract to the Marlies doesn't help the cap unless someone claims him and like someone already said, it only makes that player mad and doesn't help at all when signing UFA's in the future...