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Leafs Regular Season Discussion

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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#541 » by Crowned » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:06 am

I get a really strange feeling that Burke will be using our pick to trade for Rick Nash this offseason.
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#542 » by sanity » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:58 am

Crowned wrote:I get a really strange feeling that Burke will be using our pick to trade for Rick Nash this offseason.


Wouldn't surprise me. He does believe the draft is weak.

He has to find a way to clear some major salary and/or figure out the goaltending situation to make things work. I hope he even gives consideration towards dealing Phaneuf if there is a taker. Gardiner should be very, very good in a few years time.

The positive to draw from Nash (if any) is despite the ridiculous salary is that he is young and would presumably be our best player.
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#543 » by whysoserious » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:52 pm

Crowned wrote:I get a really strange feeling that Burke will be using our pick to trade for Rick Nash this offseason.



Honestly, I hope he moves Kessel. The guy had a great start to the season, he's young still and a pure sniper but he's too much of a floater out there to be a leader which is the position Burke has put him in. If that pick drops down to the top 3, I hope Burke is smart enough to not move it.

Rick Nash alone is not going to fix the problems and he does nothing to address the needs down the middle.

McCown often throws a lot of crap at the wall but he did make an interesting comment last Friday. He said Burke may have signed Grabo with the intent of trading him before the contract actually kicks in. He was being offered first-rounders for basically a rental player. Now that he's signed, possibly a discount compared to the market this summer, he may try and squeeze a bit more. I don't think it is what he planned, but it would be pretty solid move to move him before the contract kicks in for some young talent down the middle with more potential or some picks.

How good would Turris look as our second line C? The Leafs always seem to come up short on those kind of moves like Stoll and the fax machine incident years ago.

Also, I'm quite disappointed in some of the guys effort considering they are basically auditioning for Carlyle at this point. And we've been using that same PP move, it was successful early but it's been scouted to death, you would think they would try something else to set up. So frustrating watching that play do nothing on Saturday and turnoverf for the first goal yesterday.
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#544 » by Deron05 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:37 pm

I hope we get the 3rd overall pick. Right now, the top 3 look like Yakupov, Grigerenko, and Dumba. Edmonton might select Dumba because of their lack of defence. Grigerenko is a great fit for Toronto, Big center with skill.
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#545 » by _venom_ » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:51 am

While Grigorenko has a ton of skill there are huge red flags when it comes to him. His desire and heart has been questioned with some scouts even saying they wouldn't draft him in the 1st rd. I would actually not be opposed to taking Filip Forsberg.

My draft board would probably be:

1. Yakupov
2. Dumba
3. Forsberg
4. Grigorenko
5. Galchenyuk
6. Murray
7. Trouba
8. Gaunce
9. Ceci
10. Rielly
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#546 » by andyo » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:52 am

I like Grig and Gal over Dumba personally. I can't see the oilers passing on Grigs even though they have a pressing need for defense on that team....
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#547 » by Relentless88 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:27 pm

Can some of the draft experts here give us their tier 1 prospects for this draft? At what pick does the draft fall off, since it's supposedly top heavy?
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#548 » by _venom_ » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:36 pm

Relentless88 wrote:Can some of the draft experts here give us their tier 1 prospects for this draft? At what pick does the draft fall off, since it's supposedly top heavy?


I honestly don't see this huge dropoff. I'd say that there's a big gap between Yakupov and everyone else. The next 6-10 guys are really just a matter of preference in all honesty. This draft is very deep on Dmen so some forwards may go earlier than they should just because of positional needs.

The forwards near the top all have some question marks other than Yakupov. Grigorenko is apparently all skill no heart, Galchenyuk missed the entire sesaon due to injury, Forsberg might not have elite offensive potential. After that it's basically all D near the top of the draft.
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#549 » by Relentless88 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:23 pm

_venom_ wrote:
Relentless88 wrote:Can some of the draft experts here give us their tier 1 prospects for this draft? At what pick does the draft fall off, since it's supposedly top heavy?


I honestly don't see this huge dropoff. I'd say that there's a big gap between Yakupov and everyone else. The next 6-10 guys are really just a matter of preference in all honesty. This draft is very deep on Dmen so some forwards may go earlier than they should just because of positional needs.

The forwards near the top all have some question marks other than Yakupov. Grigorenko is apparently all skill no heart, Galchenyuk missed the entire sesaon due to injury, Forsberg might not have elite offensive potential. After that it's basically all D near the top of the draft.

Thanks.

I read somewhere that Columbus might be open to moving the #1 pick. Would Kessel + our pick (let's say the 6th pick) be enough? I've watched some Yakupov videos and the kid looks like a generational talent. :o
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#550 » by whysoserious » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:23 pm

If it's not enough, this is where getting a few extra picks for Grabbo, Kulemin/MacArthur would have really come in handy. Heck, you could have made an attempt at signing Grabbo after trading him.
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#551 » by sanity » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:21 am

Well, we're not far off from being mathematically eliminated now (no surprise)
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#552 » by Dr Positivity » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:00 am

lol
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#553 » by Dr Positivity » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:16 am

6 out of a possible 34 points over this stretch. Wow!
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#554 » by Jay_Hawk » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:30 am

Dr Mufasa wrote:6 out of a possible 34 points over this stretch. Wow!


And four of those 6 points came from wins against the 29th, and 28th placed teams in the league.
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#555 » by sanity » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:28 am

A lot of those games were coached by good ol' Ron Wilson! But yeah... this team wasn't meant for the playoffs. THey started out well and fizzled when it mattered in the 2nd half of the season. I'm hopeful heading into the summer Burke doesn't do something completely moronic for a change and we manage to upgrade the goaltending and lack-of-size-at-forward situations.
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#556 » by whysoserious » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:21 pm

I'm actually kinda glad Bruke isn't panicking at this point. This team is a playoff team but just for some reason went in the tank. Are they a good playoff team or one that can win a round or two? Probably not.

There will definitely be changes, but these are the times you don't panic and do something drastic that could hurt the team more than help.

Up until yesterdays game, they were playing better defensively overall (they still would have mental lapses during games) but they had been playing better.

I think Burke is going to regret signing Lyles and Grabovski too early though.
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#557 » by andyo » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:25 pm

I would say there's a clear drop off in talent after Yakupov with guys like Murray, Dumba, Grig, Gal, and Forsberg in the next tier.

Preferably, I hope we can snag one of Grigs or Gal, but if we get a top 6 pick and one of the 6 aforementioned players, I would say it was a successful season for us as a whole (especially if we ended up getting kicked out in the 1st round anyways).

I don't think the Liles signing was too bad but I didn't like the timing of it after the concussion. He certainly gave us a discount to stay here, unlike Grabo. When healthy, I would argue him, Franson, and Gardiner were the bright spots of this team's D.

WIth Grabo, I guess I would have been ok with the contract as Grabo still presents high value on the trade market with that deal IMO (considering I feel he would have got much more as a UFA), I just don't like the fact he has a limited NTC to hinder that value and the precedent it sets.
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#558 » by Jay_Hawk » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:38 pm

whysoserious wrote:I'm actually kinda glad Bruke isn't panicking at this point. This team is a playoff team but just for some reason went in the tank. Are they a good playoff team or one that can win a round or two? Probably not.

There will definitely be changes, but these are the times you don't panic and do something drastic that could hurt the team more than help.

Up until yesterdays game, they were playing better defensively overall (they still would have mental lapses during games) but they had been playing better.

I think Burke is going to regret signing Lyles and Grabovski too early though.


I disagree completely on the suggestion that this is a 'playoff team.' What makes this a playoff team? Certainly not the past decade of non-playoff hockey.

Here's the thing- the only reason the leafs were where they were early on, was because some of the best teams in this conference had a horrendous start to the season. You look at teams like BUF, WAS, TB, BOS, all teams that struggled early and allowed the Leafs to have their fifteen-minutes of first place.

I would argue that these teams (eastern conference only) are, without a doubt, better than the Leafs:

Pittsburgh
Boston
Washington
Buffalo
Tampa Bay
Philadelphia
Ottawa
New Jersey

The majority of those teams are in the playoffs this year, some of them have stumbled but still have more talent then this Leafs' squad. And I'd argue that teams like the Jets, Canadiens, and Canes have at least similar rosters to the Maple Leafs (I'd probably prefer the Jets to this Leafs squad). So again, I really don't understand how you or anyone can call this a 'playoff team.'
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#559 » by _venom_ » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:39 pm

If swapping Kessel for Nash was a possibility then I would be all over it. Despite Kessel having the better season, he is nowhere near as complete of a player. Nash kills penalties (probably the best forward PK in the NHL), can hit, can score, and he's a leader. Kessel is one dimensional and he'll never become an all around player. I would only do that deal in a straight swap though because of the salary difference and the age difference.

Burke's offseason goal should be:

1) Get a goalie, a legitimate goalie. Try to pry Corey Schneider away from the Canucks. I would give up our pick this year unless it's 1st overall to get Schneider.

2) Try to shed the deadweight on this team. There's a lot of it so it will be hard. Connolly, Komisarek, Lombardi, Armstrong, Steckel should all be shipped out. Komisarek would be the toughest to move but I hope an amnesty clause in the new CBA takes care of him. The others will all be going into the final years of their contract so some teams may be willing to take them.

3) Try to get tougher up front. By this I don't mean going out and getting 3rd/4th line grinders. We need legit top 6 talent that can play in the corners and not getting moved off the puck easily. Guys like Nash, Brown, or Malone. Carlysle promotes cycling in the offensive zone and maintaining possession deep. We barely have anyone on the roster capable of that right now.

4) Do not sign mediocre players in free agency. This has been Burke's biggest problem as Leafs GM. Signing mediocre players like Komisarek, Connolly, and Armstrong to big contracts. If you can't get legitimate top tier players don't settle. Bring up a couple of kids for next season. Ashton can easily play on our 3rd line next season. Same with Frattin. Colborne and Kadri deserve to be up too. Don't waster roster spots on overpaid scrubs when you have cheaper, younger options at your disposal.
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Re: Leafs Regular Season Discussion 

Post#560 » by whysoserious » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:47 pm

Jay_Hawk wrote:
I disagree completely on the suggestion that this is a 'playoff team.' What makes this a playoff team? Certainly not the past decade of non-playoff hockey.

Here's the thing- the only reason the leafs were where they were early on, was because some of the best teams in this conference had a horrendous start to the season. You look at teams like BUF, WAS, TB, BOS, all teams that struggled early and allowed the Leafs to have their fifteen-minutes of first place.

I would argue that these teams (eastern conference only) are, without a doubt, better than the Leafs:

Pittsburgh
Boston
Washington
Buffalo
Tampa Bay
Philadelphia
Ottawa
New Jersey

The majority of those teams are in the playoffs this year, some of them have stumbled but still have more talent then this Leafs' squad. And I'd argue that teams like the Jets, Canadiens, and Canes have at least similar rosters to the Maple Leafs (I'd probably prefer the Jets to this Leafs squad). So again, I really don't understand how you or anyone can call this a 'playoff team.'



I'm not gonna out and out disagree with you but other than Buffalo getting hot, those other teams are playing pretty much up and down hockey that are around us in the playoffs. Up until a month ago, this team was 6th in the conference and just playing .500 likely would have kept them in and making an appearance. One month of bad play doesn't mean you blow it up. There's definitely things to address but you don't blow it up.

There's gonna be changes, but they don't have to be drastic. Carlyle from the start of next season should be a bonus. They are headed in the right direction and no one was sitting here saying they weren't a playoff team a month ago. It's been bad, but the month doesn't define their season, nor does the first half of the season.

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