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Ron Wilson fired

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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#21 » by sanity » Sat Mar 3, 2012 6:02 am

Carlysle was an in-demand coach (apparently), so Burke finally got his man. Extending Wilson (just 2 months ago) was pretty stupid in hindsight though. Kudos for Wilson for cashing in

I agree about the goaltending but our blueline has been extremely erratic in the last month or so of play and it does reflect on the shtty time Reimer/Gustav. has been having even without some of those weak goals
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#22 » by J Dilla » Sat Mar 3, 2012 6:05 am

Other than Dallas, what other coaches were available?

Not too thrilled with hiring your buddies. This time just needs new blood. New management, new young coaching like Dallas, and the team just needs to commit to a full rebuild or full commitment to play and develop the young guys.

What I can hope for is guys like Nazem Kadri and Joe Colborne pan out under Carlyle. What I am concerned about now is how he handles Lupul, because Lupul's disapproval of his hiring can affect his production.
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#23 » by sanity » Sat Mar 3, 2012 6:08 am

Carlysle was coaching Anaheim when they won the cup, so as far as prestige goes he's probably the most qualified coach we've had in many years
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#24 » by Crowned » Sat Mar 3, 2012 6:25 am

andyo wrote:I'm more concerned about losing Lupul than losing Eakins as a potential coach. Eakins is simply not ready for this assignment, sure he may have grew with the team but you don't pass up on a coach of the calibre of Carlisle. The years are irrelevant, if he doesn't do well here, he will get canned before his contract ends, just like Wilson. I don't forsee that happening however.

I assumed Burke did his due dilligence with Lupul before the signing however. Or at least spoken to him, which is why I'm weary of the Feschuck comments.


Ready for the assignment? The season is almost over, nobody would blame the guy for not making the playoffs, the pressure wouldn't have been the same had this taken place a few months ago.

And yes, the years are relevant. They just fired Wilson after giving him an extension in December. If they fire Carlysle next season, who's going to want the job? There's gotta be some stability.
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#25 » by andyo » Sat Mar 3, 2012 6:56 am

Crowned wrote:
Ready for the assignment? The season is almost over, nobody would blame the guy for not making the playoffs, the pressure wouldn't have been the same had this taken place a few months ago.

And yes, the years are relevant. They just fired Wilson after giving him an extension in December. If they fire Carlysle next season, who's going to want the job? There's gotta be some stability.


When I say ready for the assignment, I don't simply mean finishing this year out. I wouldn't have minded Eakins as the coach but he doesn't have the NHL experience Carlysle does. Just a few years ago, Carlsylse was considered one of the best coaches in the league. This market isn't meant for a new coach like Eakins, especially not with this team, he would have been eaten alive and questioned with regards to his NHL experience as soon as he slipped up. Not to mention Carlsylse has already won a cup in the new NHL and has a winning pedigree with Burke. What this team really lacks however is a system. From what I've seen, Eakins follows the same run and gun philosophy as Wilson did. Carlysle plays a more tight-knight, 2 way style of game, his teams are well known to be strong back-checking teams, which is exactly what this team needs- accountability and a system. And having a coach as a hard ass isn't a bad thing , just take a look at the effect Torts has had on New York.

The years are not relevant because you and I know Burke won't fire Carlysle after next season. If Burke held out for 4 years of fans calling for Wilson's head, I'm sure he can hold out a lot longer for Carlysle. If worse comes to worst, I don't see him hesitating making a coaching change. Carlysle is making something like 1.5 mil or less for the next 3 years. This isn't Gretzky making 6.5 mil a year coaching the coyotes. Not to mention, this isn't a cap floor team like the Coyotes are, Toronto can more than absorb the hit of his deal.
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#26 » by YogiStewart » Sat Mar 3, 2012 3:07 pm

Carlyle makes a lot of sense. too much sense.

First, he's another one of Burke's Ducks transplants (and people thought Colangelo was bad for going back to the Phoenix Suns' well).
second, his resume is great. if the Leafs didn't sign up, someone else would have this off season.

but...you're basically taking out a surly, grumpy old coot and replacing him with a surly, grumpy old coot that is arguably better at matching lines.

i'd suggest that you would want to get a different style coach. if players weren't responding to Wilson's style, one can argue that Carlyle will rub them in the same bad way.

I fully expect the free fall to continue. I don't think the Lupul angle can be overplayed. and just wait until Kessel pisses Carlyle off. this will be a fun soap opera to watch.
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#27 » by ATLTimekeeper » Sat Mar 3, 2012 3:11 pm

I think there will be some roster moves in the summer to match the coach, for sure. But they were needed anyway. I can definitely see Kessel under fire.

I'm also interested in seeing if our awful goaltending (since pre-lockout) kills yet another established coach.
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#28 » by j127 » Sat Mar 3, 2012 5:19 pm

Hopefully Carlyle can help to shore up our porous defence.
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#29 » by UN-Owen » Sat Mar 3, 2012 8:21 pm

How does Burke justify giving him an extension just over 2 months ago?

He (Burke) basically stole millions of dollars from his employer to line the pockets of his friend (Wilson)
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#30 » by andyo » Sat Mar 3, 2012 9:00 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
but...you're basically taking out a surly, grumpy old coot and replacing him with a surly, grumpy old coot that is arguably better at matching lines.


Except I don't think Wilson was nearly the hard ass Carlysle will be. Wilson has mentioned this before, and in Burke's post presser, I think it was clear that Wilson either changed his philosophy into a player's coach in his tenure here, or the past notions of his grumpiness were overblown. Based on that, Carlysle is four fold the hard ass Wilson was here. The perception of Wilson being an ass may just be his handling of the media here over his 4 years. I think it's pretty evident based on comments by guys like Roenick and Burke that Carlysle will be more demanding, grumpy, and the run and gun system we played with Wilson is basically dead. While I still think Carlysle will exploit team speed, he's going to force his teams to be more defensively responsible like his Duck teams, and players like Kessel won't get a free ride on the back check.

This team needed more of a culture change than Eakins would have provided, and while I'm not sure Carlysle is 100% sure the guy to do it, he was most defintely the best option on the market. Only guy I can think of who could be better is Barry Trotz, but he loves Nashville and I can't forsee him leaving.
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#31 » by Deron05 » Sat Mar 3, 2012 10:54 pm

Crowned wrote:*shakes head*.

We just lost Dallas Eakins, I hope Burke realizes that. They just signed Carlysle for this year, and 3 more seasons.

Had this taken place earlier in the season, I'd agree that Eakins would be in over his head (like the Montreal situation with Muller). However, there's a handfull of games left, and he's shown his stripes in the minors. He was the logical choice, but Burke hired his buddy. He's an upgrade over Wilson, and I hope he proves me wrong, but there were better choices out there.

this season counts as year one on that contract.
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#32 » by Deron05 » Sat Mar 3, 2012 10:59 pm

BB is garbage. He hires his damn friends, when there is a great young coach in the minors. I say you leave Eakins down for the playoffs, then fire Carlyle and bring Eakins up next year. AND THEN BB hires Carlyle when both Lupul and Carlyle hate each other. Like is BB stupid? Great, he won the stanley cup for you, but that was in Anaheim, were in toronto now. like BB stop living in the damn past! Carlyle is practically the same coach as Wilson, only difference is Carlyle is meaner.
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#33 » by YogiStewart » Sun Mar 4, 2012 12:13 am

UN-Owen wrote:How does Burke justify giving him an extension just over 2 months ago?

He (Burke) basically stole millions of dollars from his employer to line the pockets of his friend (Wilson)


well...no.
you can't have a lame duck coach.
i have zero problem with the extension. it was fair (1 year) and it was deserved (arguably).

its more of an issue if you're Washington and turfing Boudreau.

if you want to pick apart the firing, i wouldn't include the extension as an issue.
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#34 » by Crowned » Sun Mar 4, 2012 4:06 am

andyo wrote:
Crowned wrote:
Ready for the assignment? The season is almost over, nobody would blame the guy for not making the playoffs, the pressure wouldn't have been the same had this taken place a few months ago.

And yes, the years are relevant. They just fired Wilson after giving him an extension in December. If they fire Carlysle next season, who's going to want the job? There's gotta be some stability.


When I say ready for the assignment, I don't simply mean finishing this year out.I wouldn't have minded Eakins as the coach but he doesn't have the NHL experience Carlysle does. Just a few years ago, Carlsylse was considered one of the best coaches in the league. This market isn't meant for a new coach like Eakins, especially not with this team, he would have been eaten alive and questioned with regards to his NHL experience as soon as he slipped up. Not to mention Carlsylse has already won a cup in the new NHL and has a winning pedigree with Burke. What this team really lacks however is a system. From what I've seen, Eakins follows the same run and gun philosophy as Wilson did. Carlysle plays a more tight-knight, 2 way style of game, his teams are well known to be strong back-checking teams, which is exactly what this team needs- accountability and a system. And having a coach as a hard ass isn't a bad thing , just take a look at the effect Torts has had on New York.

The years are not relevant because you and I know Burke won't fire Carlysle after next season. If Burke held out for 4 years of fans calling for Wilson's head, I'm sure he can hold out a lot longer for Carlysle. If worse comes to worst, I don't see him hesitating making a coaching change. Carlysle is making something like 1.5 mil or less for the next 3 years. This isn't Gretzky making 6.5 mil a year coaching the coyotes. Not to mention, this isn't a cap floor team like the Coyotes are, Toronto can more than absorb the hit of his deal.


All of what you're saying is irrelevant in this situation. The Leafs are a young, rebuilding team. Ask the youth in the AHL what they think about Eakins.

- He's spent 3 years as the head coach of the Marlies
- Spent 3 years as an assistant with the Marlies
- Was an assistant with the Leafs
- Was the Leafs director of player development
- The Marlies currently have the 2nd lowest G.A in the AHL
- One of the best PK's in the league
- Well liked, and ridiculously respected in the dressing room.

Do you think Carlysle's personality is any different than Wilson's? They're very similar, and you'll come to see that. He's terrible in the media, he's stuck in his ways like Wilson was, he completely lost the Ducks dressing room this year, he's not well liked amongst his players, and his relationship with Lupul is sour as well.

The point of another coach is to bring something new to the dressing room, I don't see that with Carlysle.

His monetary value in the contract is irrelevant. You can't go around firing coaches every year to bring someone new in every year. Do you think they'll have anyone interested should they fire Carlysle next year?
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#35 » by andyo » Sun Mar 4, 2012 4:40 am

Crowned wrote:All of what you're saying is irrelevant in this situation. The Leafs are a young, rebuilding team. Ask the youth in the AHL what they think about Eakins.

- He's spent 3 years as the head coach of the Marlies
- Spent 3 years as an assistant with the Marlies
- Was an assistant with the Leafs
- Was the Leafs director of player development
- The Marlies currently have the 2nd lowest G.A in the AHL
- One of the best PK's in the league
- Well liked, and ridiculously respected in the dressing room.

Do you think Carlysle's personality is any different than Wilson's? They're very similar, and you'll come to see that. He's terrible in the media, he's stuck in his ways like Wilson was, he completely lost the Ducks dressing room this year, he's not well liked amongst his players, and his relationship with Lupul is sour as well.

The point of another coach is to bring something new to the dressing room, I don't see that with Carlysle.

His monetary value in the contract is irrelevant. You can't go around firing coaches every year to bring someone new in every year. Do you think they'll have anyone interested should they fire Carlysle next year?


So the only credential you listed which is relevant to NHL experience was the fact Eakins was an NHL assistant at one point, on a terrible leafs team. What happened the last time we promoted our AHL coach after a good year coaching the Marlies? Burke himself has said Eakins was not ready for the 'pirhannas' that this team and market is.

So having a coach who's philosophy and history with teams does not involve Wilson's run and gun system, porous defense is not a suitable change in itself? Or what about the fact he's won a cup already. Sure, the ducks team that he won with were great on paper, but they beat a great Ottawa Senators team who many analysts (the majority of which) had pegged to win the cup that year. Those teams were defensively responsible, and accountable, all of Carlysle's team were strong 2 way and their forwards backchecked. Hell, he even got an aging Selanne to buy into his system.

Speak to a ducks fan of whether you think he is a terrible coach, and they wouldn't overly criticize him. In fact, the consensus is he was a very good coach, he's hard on players but if you play well, you will love playing for him. Get in his dog house, and you will hate it. But how is that any different than a coach like Torts has done over his career? Am I the only leafs fan tired of Ron Wilson and his preferntial treatment to players like Phaneuf, who consisntely got minutes despite being down right terrible at times? And clearly, he's not as bad as it seemed considering Selanne extended numerous times in his tenure, and Getzlaf and Perry both signed extremely favourable deals to stay with the Ducks. Yes, he's tough and his team eventually tuned him out, or so it seemed. But every coach has a shelf life and he already accomplished what our team has never done since 67, win a cup. Not to mention the Ducks were perrenial slow starters for a few years now, and this year is no different, but he always had his team peaking when it mattered, in the playoffs.

Yes, I do think Carlysle is completely different than Wilson in terms of personaility. Not only has Wilson said several times in his tenure here that was softer on players here, but Burke himself said in his presser that Wilson was a players coach and not nearly as "tough" as he wanted..... a far cry from the perception he's garnered over the years from the media and fans alike. How much of that has to do with his repoire with the media, I'm not sure, but whether the coach is good with the media or not isn't a prerequisite to being a good coach. Nor do I really care, I just want this team to win and get a cup. The only thing in common between Carlysle and Wilson are they are both terrible charismatic coaches that will tune out the media after a long enough time. In terms of coaching philosophies, they are completely different.

The only concern I have is the Lupul situation, but Carlysle has already admitted he was wrong.

They're will always be coaches interested in the Leafs coaching job, and elite ones at that. We haven't won a cup for over 4 decades yet a position with this team is still as desireable as it comes. Kids from the GTA still grow up wanting to play for the leafs. Who would have thought Burke would have left Anahiem to inherit this peice of garbage team at the time? Finding a coach for the Toronto Maple Leafs will never be a problem. They can't get any worst than they have already been, the Ballard Era, the JFJ era, but this is still the hockey capital of the world and that won't change.
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#36 » by Deron05 » Sun Mar 4, 2012 5:54 am

All of what you're saying is irrelevant in this situation. The Leafs are a young, rebuilding team. Ask the youth in the AHL what they think about Eakins.

- He's spent 3 years as the head coach of the Marlies
- Spent 3 years as an assistant with the Marlies
- Was an assistant with the Leafs
- Was the Leafs director of player development
- The Marlies currently have the 2nd lowest G.A in the AHL
- One of the best PK's in the league
- Well liked, and ridiculously respected in the dressing room.

Do you think Carlysle's personality is any different than Wilson's? They're very similar, and you'll come to see that. He's terrible in the media, he's stuck in his ways like Wilson was, he completely lost the Ducks dressing room this year, he's not well liked amongst his players, and his relationship with Lupul is sour as well.

The point of another coach is to bring something new to the dressing room, I don't see that with Carlysle.

His monetary value in the contract is irrelevant. You can't go around firing coaches every year to bring someone new in every year. Do you think they'll have anyone interested should they fire Carlysle next year?

I couldnt agree more! Carlyle is the exact same coach as ron, just more strict, which IMO a young team like this doesnt need. Im okay with this if its just for the rest of the year, but its for 3. Eakins deserved a shot, and I think Edmonton will snatch him up.
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#37 » by Relentless88 » Sun Mar 4, 2012 4:00 pm

Crowned wrote:His monetary value in the contract is irrelevant. You can't go around firing coaches every year to bring someone new in every year. Do you think they'll have anyone interested should they fire Carlysle next year?


People will always be interested. Coaches would rather have the job (any head coaching job) than not have one, so I'd say yes.

Also the head coaching job for this market is a pretty big deal, and I'm sure many coaches would love it. Also what do you mean instability? Wilson was the coach for 4 years before getting fired.
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#38 » by Deron05 » Sun Mar 4, 2012 5:21 pm

Do Eakins and Carlyle have the same style? Or are they completely different?
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#39 » by Deron05 » Sun Mar 4, 2012 6:43 pm

Just saw this thing on TSN where they asked Eakins about Carlyle and he said he wants to coach just like Carlyle, so how about Bringing Eakins up next season to be a assistant coach?
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Re: Ron Wilson fired 

Post#40 » by andyo » Sun Mar 4, 2012 7:48 pm

^ Because Burke would want Eakins in the Marlies, he stressed the importance of being successful in the minor league level as being crucial to the development of our prospects, and Eakins is doing a fine job down there so I can't see them promoting him. He was already an assistant at this level at one point. Simply put, Eakins serves a larger purpose as the head coach of the marlies for this organization as a whole than simply being an assistant at the professional level.

Eakins isn't like Carlysle at all, he is much more like Wilson in terms of philosophy and he is a players coach. Carlysle has a rep for being a negitve, demanding coach. As much of a rep Wilson has gotten as a hard ass, it's already been noted by himself, on several occasions, and by Burke in his presser that Wilson isn't nearly as demanding or tough as a guy like Carlysle will be. Wilson is a players coach in comparsion to a guy like Carlysle. People in general, and in this thread, will keep bringing up the fact that Wilson was a hard ass, just like Carlysle, just out of the stigma he's garnered with past players and his repoire with the media (which both Carlysle and Wilson share in common). Internally, everything that has been said, by guys like Roenick, Burke, Wilson, etc. have been anything but the case.

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