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Grabovski re-signed

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Re: Grabovski re-signed 

Post#21 » by andyo » Tue Mar 6, 2012 10:39 pm

whysoserious wrote:That basically limits two-thirds of the league as options should the contract become a problem in a year or two. These clauses should be limited to the elite players if you're even considering giving them out.

I would have preferred they move him for the first-rounder, taken a stab at signing him as a FA if he hits the market or just use those funds on someone else while giving a couple of our youngsters a shot to round out the season.


It depends on the value of the 1st though, if its a late 1st like the one Nashville gave up for Gaustad, I don't think I'd do that deal. I also think if we did move Grabo at the deadline for a 1st, he was as good as gone, no chance to retain him . And I wouldn't have liked the odds of putting all my apples in one basket with Parise to fill the enormous gap we'd give up by losing someone like him. We already lack a true bonafide #1C and IMO, Conolly and Bozak are well below average #2 centers. In my mind, Detroit would have snatched him up at this price and would have been happy doing it, judging by some of the contracts handed over the last 2 years in the FA market, this was a bargain. What's really concerning though about the contract for me isn't the fact we overpaid but the precedent it sets for guys like Kessel and Lupul. If we have to overpay for them too, we're simply retaining our mediocre core.

Some things I would have done in the deadline: Macarthur for a 1st, Yes, no doubt. And considering Ottawa gave a 2nd for Ben Bishop, I would have done something similar if Reimer fetched that type of value (I just don't think he's a capable goalie moving forward).

I also would have went after Chris Stewart hard during the deadline, was playing on the blues 4th line at one point and a perfect buy low scenario. Don't know if we could have gotten him, but that's one player I would have targetted. We're in desperate need of a power forward and I still think he has some tremendous upside, just needs the right situation.
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Re: Grabovski re-signed 

Post#22 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue Mar 6, 2012 10:43 pm

whysoserious wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:I won't complain about overpaying a good player like Grabbo. The deal only looks bad because we have some millstone contracts on our books (Armstrong, Komi) and Connolly, and then he inherited Lombardi to get Franson (who is being benched for Komi :cry: ).


I'm kinda disappointed Franson's getting the boot too. It's true we have some bad contracts but you can't deny Grabbo's overpaid for his production. You could have taken that money and put it towards a true front line C. The good thing is Connoly's only signed for another season. You could have taken on salary in a trade and then given you're young guys a shot or slid Bozak down to the second line.


I think Grabbo is a pretty good two-way center and he's still young enough where we'll be getting his best years. Bozak seems like more of a third line guy to me or trade bait to bring in a top line center as a part of a package. With the amount of dead weight coming off the books next year (Connolly, Armstrong, Lombardi) we'll actually have some decent coin (about 10.5 million) to spend on re-signing Lupul and possibly adding that top line center or goaltender.
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Re: Grabovski re-signed 

Post#23 » by whysoserious » Wed Mar 7, 2012 12:51 am

Grabovski will now make more than Getzlaf and Kesler and I'd take those guys in an instant over him.
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Re: Grabovski re-signed 

Post#24 » by andyo » Wed Mar 7, 2012 4:36 am

whysoserious wrote:Grabovski will now make more than Getzlaf and Kesler and I'd take those guys in an instant over him.


I'm pretty sure both of those guys signed their current deals as RFA's though....Grabo signed his as a UFA...different scenario. When guys like Perry/Getzlaf hit the open market in a few years, expect them to make at least 7 million per, on a much longer term.
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Re: Grabovski re-signed 

Post#25 » by _venom_ » Wed Mar 7, 2012 4:56 am

I'm not a fan of the signing at that price but I can understand why he'd get that amount. The salary cap (and yearly increases) almost kills NHL free agency. Every year there are only 1-3 really good players available and teams with holes to fill are left to overpay the remaining talent. Grabovski would have easily gotten that amount if not more in July. I wish he would have given us a bit of a discount though.
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Re: Grabovski re-signed 

Post#26 » by Crowned » Wed Mar 7, 2012 5:12 am

I started typing some rant, but it's not worth it. All I'm going to say is....bad signing. Bad, bad, bad signing.
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Re: Grabovski re-signed 

Post#27 » by CPT » Wed Mar 7, 2012 6:53 am

Awww, just do it. ^
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Re: Grabovski re-signed 

Post#28 » by YogiStewart » Wed Mar 7, 2012 1:00 pm

whysoserious wrote:Grabovski will now make more than Getzlaf and Kesler and I'd take those guys in an instant over him.


this was a tough signing.
he's arguably the Leafs' 3rd best player and 2nd most talented player (Kessel would be ahead of him).

I think $4 mil/year is more logical, but his off-season market value would have been around $5 mil/season due to lack of UFAs.

but if Grabo is part of the Leafs' core, you have to ask yourself: you're paying high end money for a core that's been together for 2-3 years and has failed to make the playoffs?

Burke is one of the worst cap managing GMs out there. he established this with the Komisarek contract, cemented it with the Phaneuf trade and further embarassed himself with the riches handed out to Connoley and Liles. those are the contracts that make Grabovski's contract that much worse.

The Leafs can now only add through the draft and not through UFAs. adding through the draft means another 1-2 years until those players reach their potential. and then you can't put them on the 1st two lines because of all the crappy contracts.

oh, and this means Franzen will walk and Kulemin will likely walk.
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Re: Grabovski re-signed 

Post#29 » by whysoserious » Wed Mar 7, 2012 1:23 pm

I kinda look at this now as not a bad signing in and of itself. I think Grabbo would have got 6 million maybe had he hit the market. As Yogi mentioned, what makes it look bad is the other signings on the team alongside.

Yogi, can't really say anything about Phaneuf. He's a bit overpaid but it was a good trade and he can definitely be a good defensemen. I think he's gonna benefit from a full season under Carlyle next year.

Connoly's got a horrible contract but it's only 1 more year so that's not bad. What all the signings have done though is limit them this off-season and having to wait another year. It's why as I stated, if I was Burke and the freefall was happening up to the deadline, I would have acquired as many assets as possible because those are pieces that can help you secure guys at the draft or make some moves.

Burkes done some good work here, but his cap management and FA signings have pretty much been duds.
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Re: Grabovski re-signed 

Post#30 » by YogiStewart » Wed Mar 7, 2012 1:29 pm

whysoserious wrote:I kinda look at this now as not a bad signing in and of itself. I think Grabbo would have got 6 million maybe had he hit the market. As Yogi mentioned, what makes it look bad is the other signings on the team alongside.

Yogi, can't really say anything about Phaneuf. He's a bit overpaid but it was a good trade and he can definitely be a good defensemen. I think he's gonna benefit from a full season under Carlyle next year.



Phaneuf has arguably regressed since his 1st year in the league. This season is better than last season, but he gets burned on D so bloody often.
He's a $4 mil/year D man, max. Think of your favourite D-men and look up their contracts. Out of the Cnd teams, I'd rather have Bogozian, Giordano, Phillips ahead of Phaneuf. Their contracts are all lower. the only contract like his is Bowmeister's and that is a HORRIBLE contract.

the Phaneuf trade was good because garbage out brought back a good player...but you cannot take a $6 mill contract when you are rebuilding. keep the cap low, build from the ground up and bring in talent when the time comes. instead, you're the ultimate NHL treadmill team. you're mimicking the Leafs from the past 15 years, where $$ was pissed away on big names with bigger contracts.
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Re: Grabovski re-signed 

Post#31 » by whysoserious » Wed Mar 7, 2012 2:21 pm

YogiStewart wrote:Phaneuf has arguably regressed since his 1st year in the league. This season is better than last season, but he gets burned on D so bloody often.
He's a $4 mil/year D man, max. Think of your favourite D-men and look up their contracts. Out of the Cnd teams, I'd rather have Bogozian, Giordano, Phillips ahead of Phaneuf. Their contracts are all lower. the only contract like his is Bowmeister's and that is a HORRIBLE contract.

the Phaneuf trade was good because garbage out brought back a good player...but you cannot take a $6 mill contract when you are rebuilding. keep the cap low, build from the ground up and bring in talent when the time comes. instead, you're the ultimate NHL treadmill team. you're mimicking the Leafs from the past 15 years, where $$ was pissed away on big names with bigger contracts.


There is no doubt that Phaneuf is overpaid, but it's not all doom and gloom. The guy has shown he can be a good defensemen and like I said, he can benefit from Carlyle probably a lot. He should be a second line defensemen. This is where Burke has made mistakes, overestimating his big club but giving up garbage for a player like Phaneuf alone doesn't hurt, it's the cumulative contracts. Had he not given the Komisarek deal out and a couple of young D men are playing with the big club, it's not so bad.

Schenn massively regressed under Wilson even though he gave him a shot as a rookie. But Phaneuf is still in his prime age-wise and can still be a contributor, Burke just didn't stick to his out and out rebuild alongside adding a Phanuef.
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Re: Grabovski re-signed 

Post#32 » by _venom_ » Wed Mar 7, 2012 2:27 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
whysoserious wrote:Grabovski will now make more than Getzlaf and Kesler and I'd take those guys in an instant over him.


this was a tough signing.
he's arguably the Leafs' 3rd best player and 2nd most talented player (Kessel would be ahead of him).

I think $4 mil/year is more logical, but his off-season market value would have been around $5 mil/season due to lack of UFAs.

but if Grabo is part of the Leafs' core, you have to ask yourself: you're paying high end money for a core that's been together for 2-3 years and has failed to make the playoffs?

Burke is one of the worst cap managing GMs out there. he established this with the Komisarek contract, cemented it with the Phaneuf trade and further embarassed himself with the riches handed out to Connoley and Liles. those are the contracts that make Grabovski's contract that much worse.

The Leafs can now only add through the draft and not through UFAs. adding through the draft means another 1-2 years until those players reach their potential. and then you can't put them on the 1st two lines because of all the crappy contracts.

oh, and this means Franzen will walk and Kulemin will likely walk.


This deal doesn't mean Kulemin and Franson walk. After the signing we are still 7.6 million under the cap not including the yearly cap increase which will happen. With that 7.6 million we need to sign 3 forwards, 1 dman, and 1 goalie. I assume 2 of those F spots are Kulemin and Frattin. I can't see Kulemin getting more than 3 million after the season he's had. Fratting won't get more than a million. Last forward spot can go to a league minimum type of contract like Joey Crabb. I could see Franson traded at the draft as he doesn't seem to be a long term fit. However, we still have enough money to re-sign him if necessary. Plus both Franson and Kulemin are restricted so there's very little chance that they don't get signed by us, or traded.

The problem now is that with this signing we really can't get a big upgrade in free agency (Parise) or through trade (Nash) unless we dump some serious salary (Connolly, Armstrong, Lombardi, Komisarek). Thankfully the first 3 of those guys are all in their final years next season. I'd like to see us move a few guys off the team and give guys like Colborne and Kadri a legit chance next year to play at the next level. If we go into next season with basically the same roster then we clearly aren't going for a top 4 seed in the playoffs let alone a bottom playoff seed.
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Re: Grabovski re-signed 

Post#33 » by Deron05 » Wed Mar 7, 2012 4:35 pm

You know whats sad? Both Boston and Vancouver had more cap space than the leafs before the deadline. And with this contract, Kessel and Lupul will both be asking for 6 million bucks a year.

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