Howard Berger's take on us making the play-offs

[Tor-Rap-Tor]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=8660

I don't disagree with him but I do have a little more optimistic view of our player's abilities. I think as we stand our D is pretty good and matches well with most other clubs and our goalie situation is vastly improved too...
I feel as he does however that Injuries will be a big factor in our making the play-offs this year...
I too want Mike Peca back, as he is a great defensive forward, if only we can figure out how to do it, when we are now virtually capped out...

How do others here see it?...

[Crowned]

I skimmed through it, and agree with some parts. We do have depth on the blueline, but no real defensive/shutdown type of defenseman, which is extremely important on any team.

[matt2727]

before I say anything, let me just admit that i'm a diehard sens fan and hate the leafs. But I realized that the only place people are talking hockey on realgm is the leafs forum, so i figured id come check it out. I'll try and be fair and not biased, so here's what i think about this article.

Personally I agree with Berger, you guys are a borderline playoff team. have you guys improved, i would have to say so. but enough to be anything more then a 7 or 8 seed in the east, no!

I think was a mistake for you guys to bring back Sundin, especially for the amount you paid him. he's not the player he once was, injuries are always an issue with him and he's just not a top 25 player in the anymore, top 50 yes, top 25 no, so he shouldnt be paid like one. let me just use my team as an example here, i'd take a guy like mike fisher over sundin anyday, and when its time for mike to sign a new deal, it still will be less then sundin's and he's much younger.

I think you guys did a good job getting Toskala and Bell....Bell is a wildcard, he could be a good player for you guys and Toskala has proven that he's a solid/steady goaltender. But I really think you guys over paid him, 4 million for a goalie thats good, but hasn't proven anything besides the fact that he's a solid goalie, he's never won anything major, hasnt been to the finals. Goalies who have accomplished more then him are getting paid less. but its still an upgrade over raycroft, who needs to be traded, because that whole situation just wont work.

I really liked the Blake signing, he's a guy that im sure every team would like to have, but i hope you guys aren't expecting another offensive season like the one he had. 40 goals for him was a fluke, well i would say fluke, but blake is not a 40 goal scorer, i see him getting about 60-65 points for you guys this year, 25 goals.

but guys just face it, with JFJ as your GM your never going to be anything more then a team that at best, just makes the playoffs, you guys just dont have the individual talent. you guys need to rebuild. your youngs guys aren't great prospect, most of them with potential to be nothing more then 2nd or 3rd liners. you need to focus on the draft and get some superstar prospects, not sign and trade for a bunch of older guys, and you guys continually resign guys you should be letting go. you guys should be bringing Pogge up soon, this team should be rebuilding, and not just one or 2 younger guys each, you need to just shut it down, and completely rebuild, rebuild or dont, no in between.

anyways good luck this year, but until you guys face the facts, and decide to completely rebuild, its just going to be season after season of just making the playoffs as your max potential, definitely no cup. sorry leafs nation.

[PJTucker]

before I say anything, let me just admit that i'm a diehard sens fan and hate the leafs. But I realized that the only place people are talking hockey on realgm is the leafs forum, so i figured id come check it out. I'll try and be fair and not biased, so here's what i think about this article.

Personally I agree with Berger, you guys are a borderline playoff team. have you guys improved, i would have to say so. but enough to be anything more then a 7 or 8 seed in the east, no!

I think was a mistake for you guys to bring back Sundin, especially for the amount you paid him. he's not the player he once was, injuries are always an issue with him and he's just not a top 25 player in the anymore, top 50 yes, top 25 no, so he shouldnt be paid like one. let me just use my team as an example here, i'd take a guy like mike fisher over sundin anyday, and when its time for mike to sign a new deal, it still will be less then sundin's and he's much younger.

I think you guys did a good job getting Toskala and Bell....Bell is a wildcard, he could be a good player for you guys and Toskala has proven that he's a solid/steady goaltender. But I really think you guys over paid him, 4 million for a goalie thats good, but hasn't proven anything besides the fact that he's a solid goalie, he's never won anything major, hasnt been to the finals. Goalies who have accomplished more then him are getting paid less. but its still an upgrade over raycroft, who needs to be traded, because that whole situation just wont work.

I really liked the Blake signing, he's a guy that im sure every team would like to have, but i hope you guys aren't expecting another offensive season like the one he had. 40 goals for him was a fluke, well i would say fluke, but blake is not a 40 goal scorer, i see him getting about 60-65 points for you guys this year, 25 goals.

but guys just face it, with JFJ as your GM your never going to be anything more then a team that at best, just makes the playoffs, you guys just dont have the individual talent. you guys need to rebuild. your youngs guys aren't great prospect, most of them with potential to be nothing more then 2nd or 3rd liners. you need to focus on the draft and get some superstar prospects, not sign and trade for a bunch of older guys, and you guys continually resign guys you should be letting go. you guys should be bringing Pogge up soon, this team should be rebuilding, and not just one or 2 younger guys each, you need to just shut it down, and completely rebuild, rebuild or dont, no in between.

anyways good luck this year, but until you guys face the facts, and decide to completely rebuild, its just going to be season after season of just making the playoffs as your max potential, definitely no cup. sorry leafs nation.

You lost me with that one statement right there.

Plus, suggesting that injuries are always an issue with Sundin is just so far from the truth, it shows you're pretty far removed from this situation.

I think the Leafs are a likely playoff team this year, provided they aren't decimated by injuries again this time. With average goaltending last year, they would've made the playoffs. This time around, they should be at least average in the net. Granted, other teams have improved too.

If I were guessing I'd say the most optimistic outlook possible would place them 6th or 7th in the conference, the least would place them 9th or 10th.

[matt2727]

I'm Pretty sure that if you asked all the NHL GM's today, who would you rather have on your team today, Mats Sundin or Mike Fisher? i bet at least 60% of GM's say Fisher. In my opinion, if you dont agree thats fine, but Sundin isnt worth more then 3 million a year. and on a good team, he's a second line player.

As for injuries always being an issue with sundin, what i meant was that he always seems to be bothered by something, he never seems to be 100% out there on the ice, he hasnt missed that many games in the past 2 seasons, 17 i believe, maybe its just the old age that makes him look hampered all the time.

[juucer]

i'd take a guy like mike fisher over sundin anyday

Ummmm yeah...

I stopped reading right there.

[UTMCretin]

I'm Pretty sure that if you asked all the NHL GM's today, who would you rather have on your team today, Mats Sundin or Mike Fisher? i bet at least 60% of GM's say Fisher. In my opinion, if you dont agree thats fine, but Sundin isnt worth more then 3 million a year. and on a good team, he's a second line player.

I hate it when people try and serve their arguement by saying crap like "i bet most GM's agree with my opinion". Its not a tangible point or anything and its served basically irrelevant by the fact that it has no real basis behind it, just a random talking point people use to serve whatever far-fetched idea they're pitching.

[kelso]

I'm Pretty sure that if you asked all the NHL GM's today, who would you rather have on your team today, Mats Sundin or Mike Fisher? i bet at least 60% of GM's say Fisher. In my opinion, if you dont agree thats fine, but Sundin isnt worth more then 3 million a year. and on a good team, he's a second line player.

As for injuries always being an issue with sundin, what i meant was that he always seems to be bothered by something, he never seems to be 100% out there on the ice, he hasnt missed that many games in the past 2 seasons, 17 i believe, maybe its just the old age that makes him look hampered all the time.

Get a grip. Fisher over Sundin AND it would be the majority of NHL GMs agreeing?!?! Your younger and less-injured Mike Fisher got less goals, less assists, played less games and got to play on an way more talented team.

Sundin always bothered by something? Yah, like playing with scrubs and only ever having one legitimate winger (Mogilny) albeit past his prime.

Sundin-haters are so en vogue.

[GameBoy]

I'm Pretty sure that if you asked all the NHL GM's today, who would you rather have on your team today, Mats Sundin or Mike Fisher? i bet at least 60% of GM's say Fisher. In my opinion, if you dont agree thats fine, but Sundin isnt worth more then 3 million a year. and on a good team, he's a second line player.

As for injuries always being an issue with sundin, what i meant was that he always seems to be bothered by something, he never seems to be 100% out there on the ice, he hasnt missed that many games in the past 2 seasons, 17 i believe, maybe its just the old age that makes him look hampered all the time.

here ya go buddy, hockey forum! and there's even a sens forum have fun!

http://hfboards.com/

[MAS]

I'm Pretty sure that if you asked all the NHL GM's today, who would you rather have on your team today, Mats Sundin or Mike Fisher? i bet at least 60% of GM's say Fisher. In my opinion, if you dont agree thats fine, but Sundin isnt worth more then 3 million a year. and on a good team, he's a second line player.

As for injuries always being an issue with sundin, what i meant was that he always seems to be bothered by something, he never seems to be 100% out there on the ice, he hasnt missed that many games in the past 2 seasons, 17 i believe, maybe its just the old age that makes him look hampered all the time.

That is a leaf hater voice if i ever heard one. Mats Sundin is a world class player, even now. Mike Fisher is a role player, a 3rd liner at best. He's the type of guy you get at the trade deadline to push yourself over the top imo

[Griff83]

-= original quote snipped =-



That is a leaf hater voice if i ever heard one. Mats Sundin is a world class player, even now. Mike Fisher is a role player, a 3rd liner at best. He's the type of guy you get at the trade deadline to push yourself over the top imo

3rd liner at best?

Thats weird seeing he was the Sens best forward outside the Cash line in the playoffs and played 2nd line center mostly throughout there whole run. He's easily a 2nd line player on many teams.

[Tor-Rap-Tor]

I'm Pretty sure that if you asked all the NHL GM's today, who would you rather have on your team today, Mats Sundin or Mike Fisher? i bet at least 60% of GM's say Fisher. In my opinion, if you dont agree thats fine, but Sundin isnt worth more then 3 million a year. and on a good team, he's a second line player.

As for injuries always being an issue with sundin, what i meant was that he always seems to be bothered by something, he never seems to be 100% out there on the ice, he hasnt missed that many games in the past 2 seasons, 17 i believe, maybe its just the old age that makes him look hampered all the time.

Mat Sundin brings way more to the table than Mike Fisher. He's the captain and soul of the club and he also plays multi positions, even point on the power play and as others have mentioned, plays center without the benefit of very good wingers but still puts up good numbers. Players of Mat Sundin's stature will be in the HOF one day, I doubt Mike Fisher will ever be there unless he pays admission to get in. Matts is worth every penny the club pays him and even had his contract torn up, so he could give our team more cap space. Will any of the players on your team do that?...

When your talking Goal tenders, Emery has only had one outstanding year (last year) and Raycroft was rookie goalie of the year in Boston a few years ago as a comparison. If you want bad goal tending, look no further than Gerber an over paid pylon that is untradable...

Now to JFJ, the results aren't in as yet but the moves he has made this year, while not spectacular have certainly improved the club. Murray has yet to get a year under his belt as GM in Ottawa and so far, how has he improved your club? I am by no means a JFJ fan but this year he has done his job and our team may surprise a few people...

[Crowned]

Personally I agree with Berger, you guys are a borderline playoff team. have you guys improved, i would have to say so. but enough to be anything more then a 7 or 8 seed in the east, no!

The Leafs were a boarderline playoff team last season, and missed the playoffs due to injuries throughout the season. When healthy, and a former 40 goal scorer, mixed with a legit #1 goaltender...I'd say we've moved out of that "boarderline 8th seed" category.

I think was a mistake for you guys to bring back Sundin, especially for the amount you paid him. he's not the player he once was, injuries are always an issue with him and he's just not a top 25 player in the anymore, top 50 yes, top 25 no, so he shouldnt be paid like one. let me just use my team as an example here, i'd take a guy like mike fisher over sundin anyday, and when its time for mike to sign a new deal, it still will be less then sundin's and he's much younger.

Sundin was signed on a 1 year contract, we can decide his future at the end of the season. If he significantly regresses to the point where we no longer want to retain his services under a large contract, we can deal with it. I'd much rather re-sign Sundin to a one year contract then hand out ridiculous contracts to players like Gomez and Smyth. Sundin is our captain, and leader. Let's see how he plays with Blake, Wellwood, Tucker or Bell this season before passing any judgements. He'll no longer be forced to play with Antropov.

I think you guys did a good job getting Toskala and Bell....Bell is a wildcard, he could be a good player for you guys and Toskala has proven that he's a solid/steady goaltender. But I really think you guys over paid him, 4 million for a goalie thats good, but hasn't proven anything besides the fact that he's a solid goalie, he's never won anything major, hasnt been to the finals. Goalies who have accomplished more then him are getting paid less. but its still an upgrade over raycroft, who needs to be traded, because that whole situation just wont work.

Ray Emery is 59-27-10 with a 2.59 g.a.a throughout his entire NHL career.

Vesa Toskala is 65-28-10 with a 2.34 g.a.a throughout his entire NHL career.

...would Ray Emery be playing a significant amount of games if he was paired with Nabokov on an NHL roster? I highly doubt it.

Vesa Toskala has proven to be a good NHL goaltender, both through his statistics, and his on ice abilities.

I really liked the Blake signing, he's a guy that im sure every team would like to have, but i hope you guys aren't expecting another offensive season like the one he had. 40 goals for him was a fluke, well i would say fluke, but blake is not a 40 goal scorer, i see him getting about 60-65 points for you guys this year, 25 goals.

We're not expecting another 40 goal season from him. However, I'm not so sure you can say scoring 40 goals in a single season is a 'fluke'. To score that amount of goals in a single season is quite the accomplishment, and not an easy task. You have to be a gifted scorer to reach that milestone. Fluke? How?

but guys just face it, with JFJ as your GM your never going to be anything more then a team that at best, just makes the playoffs, you guys just dont have the individual talent. you guys need to rebuild. your youngs guys aren't great prospect, most of them with potential to be nothing more then 2nd or 3rd liners. you need to focus on the draft and get some superstar prospects, not sign and trade for a bunch of older guys, and you guys continually resign guys you should be letting go. you guys should be bringing Pogge up soon, this team should be rebuilding, and not just one or 2 younger guys each, you need to just shut it down, and completely rebuild, rebuild or dont, no in between.

No, we shouldn't be bringing Pogge up soon.

anyways good luck this year, but until you guys face the facts, and decide to completely rebuild, its just going to be season after season of just making the playoffs as your max potential, definitely no cup. sorry leafs nation.

We'll see what situation the Sens will be in this time next season when they're scrambling with their cap.

...and LOL at Sens fans making these kinds of comments. Hit us while we're down why don't you? It was not too long ago where the Sens were at the bottom of the pack. Then, constantly losing to the Leafs in the playoffs. Now, you're coming off two successful seasons which saw the Leafs do poorly, and it's like a large bash fest. We'll see what happens.

[matt2727]

I'm not hating on sundin, he's a good player, i dont think he's as good as you guys do, but im on hating on him. of course Sundin is going to get his points, he's one of the few natural scorers the leafs have, who else is going to score, the leafs are a bunch of role players, some of them get a decent amount of points, but thats just because they have to take on that role, because they dont have enough scorers, if the leafs had a few more gifted scorers, they would be better off, cause their role players could focus mainly on what their actual job is and their team team game overall would be so much better.

as for the sundin-fisher debate...im not saying fisher is better, its not even really about fisher..lets just categorize fisher as a 2nd or 3rd line guy that gets between 40-60 points a season. if a GM was starting a team from scratch, he wouldnt use over 5 million of his cap to take a guy in his upper 30's who has maybe one or two more years left before retirement, a guy like fisher or if you will a 2nd/3rd line player that can get you 40-60 in a season would probably be higher on the priority list then a guy like sundin. Since the Cap era, affordable 2nd/3rd line guys, have become so important, the teams that have the best 2nd/3rd line talent seem to have the best records. If that GM is going to give a player big bucks, its going to a young star, not a old guy a year or two away from retirement like Sundin. make sense?? disagree if you want, thats fine, this is just my take on it.

As for the Emery/Toskala comparison:

"Ray Emery is 59-27-10 with a 2.59 g.a.a throughout his entire NHL career.

Vesa Toskala is 65-28-10 with a 2.34 g.a.a throughout his entire NHL career"

I agree Toskala is good, but just by the records you have provided, does that merit an extra million dollars per year. has Toskala played in the stanley cup finals like emery?, has he won a cup like Ward? has he led his team to the conference finals like Miller?
ok maybe he didnt really get a chance to, but i still don't see how the leafs could just go out and give him 4 million a year, he is good no doubt, but what were they basing the salary they offered him on?? I hope this doesnt come back to haunt the Leafs, like Ottawa is haunted by the gerber signing...going into last year ottawa needed a goalie that had playoff experience, someone that could get them to the cup, and what do they do..they sign gerber, a goalie who didnt even play in the playoffs..dumb! Gerber was a good backup for giguere then had a good regular season in Carolina, Toskala was a good backup for Nabokov, now lets just hope things turn out better for you guys.

[Tor-Rap-Tor]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=8903

This is more on Bergers assessment of our team player by player...

I'm not in complete agreement with him but for the most part, his observations are pretty accurate in my opinion and I think it will all come down to how injury free we can remain as to how far we can go in the play-offs...

[Griff83]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=8903

This is more on Bergers assessment of our team player by player...

I'm not in complete agreement with him but for the most part, his observations are pretty accurate in my opinion and I think it will all come down to how injury free we can remain as to how far we can go in the play-offs...

Ill say goaltending and penalty kill will be the difference if we make the playoffs or not.

[Tor-Rap-Tor]

http://torontohockey.net/leafs/maple-le ... eview.html

This is another Team assessment, Player by Player...

Again another well thought out assessment and it gives us an improved over all team but it still ranks us as a middle of the road team...