Make up your lines

[Griff83]

Post what youd have as the teams 4 forward lines.

Steen Sundin Blake

Bell Wellwood Tucker

Poni Stajan Antropov

Kilger Pohl Devereux

[Crowned]

As of right now...

Steen- Sundin- Blake
Poni- Wellwood- Tucker
Kilger- Stajan- Antropov
Deveraux- Bell- Battaglia
Pohl

Kubina- Kaberle
Carlo- McCabe
Gill- Stralman/White

Toskala
Raycroft


Later in the season, I'd like to see..

Wellwood- Sundin- Blake
Poni- Steen- Tucker
Bell- Stajan- Antro
Kilger- Deveraux- Tlusty
Pohl

Kubina- Kaberle
McCabe- Carlo
Gill- White/Stralman

Toskala
Raycroft


I'd love to see Wellwood on our top line, he can produce when provided the opportunity. I'd like to see him work some magic on the wing next to Blake and Sundin. He may be more effective on at center on the 2nd line, but with two other scoring threats on a line with him, he'll be able to run free.

As for Tlusty, I'm all for giving him a shot on our 4th line in the middle of the season. He'll probably be in the O or with the Marlies, but if he shows what he can do in training camp, it may be worth looking at. I'm all for developing players in the minors first, but he's just so determined to make this team.

[Griff83]

As of right now...

Steen- Sundin- Blake
Poni- Wellwood- Tucker
Kilger- Stajan- Antropov
Deveraux- Bell- Battaglia
Pohl

Kubina- Kaberle
Carlo- McCabe
Gill- Stralman/White

Toskala
Raycroft


Later in the season, I'd like to see..

Wellwood- Sundin- Blake
Poni- Steen- Tucker
Bell- Stajan- Antro
Kilger- Deveraux- Tlusty
Pohl

Kubina- Kaberle
McCabe- Carlo
Gill- White/Stralman

Toskala
Raycroft


I'd love to see Wellwood on our top line, he can produce when provided the opportunity. I'd like to see him work some magic on the wing next to Blake and Sundin. He may be more effective on at center on the 2nd line, but with two other scoring threats on a line with him, he'll be able to run free.

As for Tlusty, I'm all for giving him a shot on our 4th line in the middle of the season. He'll probably be in the O or with the Marlies, but if he shows what he can do in training camp, it may be worth looking at. I'm all for developing players in the minors first, but he's just so determined to make this team.

Mark Bell as your 4th line center? That would be horrible cap management to be playing a guy 2 million dollars a year to be on the fourth line seeing very limited ice time. Also dont like the Wellwood, Sundin, Blake line, way too small, we would never win any battles in the corners and would be a atrcious forechecking line. Sure they will make some awesome plays together, But I feel the first line needs a player who can grind it in the corners and get the puck out to Sundin/Blake.

[Crowned]

I'd like to see how he produces throughout training camp and preseason before passing judgement on Mark Bell. As of right now, you can plug him anywhere throughout your lineup. He may be effective next to Sundin, Wellwood, Stajan, or on your 4th line. With Bell, it's more of a "where does he fit in best" type of scenerio. I think he'd be effective with two grinders on the 3rd/4th line, but that depends on what you expect out of him. If you want him to score, you obviously want him moved up on your lineup. I'd like to see more of a "grind" game out of him first, because his scoring was rather inconsistant last season. If he picks up his scoring, feel free to move him up.

The 2nd lineup was a lineup that "I'd like to see", like I stated. I'd like to see Wellwood, Sundin and Blake together, no doubt for scoring purposes. Blake plays with an edge to him, much like Tucker does, he could play that "dig out of the corners" type of role if needed. I want to see Wellwood play to his ability, and he would certainly do it next to Sundin, and a natural goal scorer in Blake. It's a line worth trying, most definitely.

The Leafs have several players that could play different roles on different lines, which makes it much easier for Maurice when deciding opening day rosters and lines. The challenge is getting the most out of your players, which is what he did rather well last season.

Blake and Tucker are in your face type of players, but can both put the puck in the net.

Sundin and Wellwood can put the puck in the net, and set up goals when needed, and both do it extremely well.

Antro and Poni are both large players, and played quite well last season. They've both had large expectations placed on them next to Sundin, and should play better on 2nd/3rd line roles, same with Bell to a certain extent.

You have a guy like Steen that could be effective on a top line, and maintain that effectiveness throughout the lineup down towards the 4th line. Stajan can play that "defensive" role, and play on the PK. You also have quite a few players that play the checking role on the 4th line pretty well, in Bates, Kilger, Deveraux and Pohl.

[Tor-Rap-Tor]

I'd like to see how he produces throughout training camp and preseason before passing judgement on Mark Bell. As of right now, you can plug him anywhere throughout your lineup. He may be effective next to Sundin, Wellwood, Stajan, or on your 4th line. With Bell, it's more of a "where does he fit in best" type of scenerio. I think he'd be effective with two grinders on the 3rd/4th line, but that depends on what you expect out of him. If you want him to score, you obviously want him moved up on your lineup. I'd like to see more of a "grind" game out of him first, because his scoring was rather inconsistant last season. If he picks up his scoring, feel free to move him up.

The 2nd lineup was a lineup that "I'd like to see", like I stated. I'd like to see Wellwood, Sundin and Blake together, no doubt for scoring purposes. Blake plays with an edge to him, much like Tucker does, he could play that "dig out of the corners" type of role if needed. I want to see Wellwood play to his ability, and he would certainly do it next to Sundin, and a natural goal scorer in Blake. It's a line worth trying, most definitely.

The Leafs have several players that could play different roles on different lines, which makes it much easier for Maurice when deciding opening day rosters and lines. The challenge is getting the most out of your players, which is what he did rather well last season.

Blake and Tucker are in your face type of players, but can both put the puck in the net.

Sundin and Wellwood can put the puck in the net, and set up goals when needed, and both do it extremely well.

Antro and Poni are both large players, and played quite well last season. They've both had large expectations placed on them next to Sundin, and should play better on 2nd/3rd line roles, same with Bell to a certain extent.

You have a guy like Steen that could be effective on a top line, and maintain that effectiveness throughout the lineup down towards the 4th line. Stajan can play that "defensive" role, and play on the PK. You also have quite a few players that play the checking role on the 4th line pretty well, in Bates, Kilger, Deveraux and Pohl.

This is an extremely good assessment and several of the points made above, are the same ones I struggled with when making up my line up. Though I am not totally satisfied with player combos and would like to see some infusion of young talented players here it is...

Blake Sundin Wellwood
Ponikarovsky Antropov Bell
Tucker Steen Kilger
Battaglia Pohl Devereaux
Reserve Stajan Belak

McCabe Kaberle
Colaiacovo Kubina
White Gill
Stralman Kronwall

Toskala Raycroft

Young Players to fill holes
Brent Aubin
Robert Earl
Tyler Ruegsegger
Jiri Tlusty
Jeremy Williams

[Griff83]

I'd like to see how he produces throughout training camp and preseason before passing judgement on Mark Bell. As of right now, you can plug him anywhere throughout your lineup. He may be effective next to Sundin, Wellwood, Stajan, or on your 4th line. With Bell, it's more of a "where does he fit in best" type of scenerio. I think he'd be effective with two grinders on the 3rd/4th line, but that depends on what you expect out of him. If you want him to score, you obviously want him moved up on your lineup. I'd like to see more of a "grind" game out of him first, because his scoring was rather inconsistant last season. If he picks up his scoring, feel free to move him up.

The 2nd lineup was a lineup that "I'd like to see", like I stated. I'd like to see Wellwood, Sundin and Blake together, no doubt for scoring purposes. Blake plays with an edge to him, much like Tucker does, he could play that "dig out of the corners" type of role if needed. I want to see Wellwood play to his ability, and he would certainly do it next to Sundin, and a natural goal scorer in Blake. It's a line worth trying, most definitely.

The Leafs have several players that could play different roles on different lines, which makes it much easier for Maurice when deciding opening day rosters and lines. The challenge is getting the most out of your players, which is what he did rather well last season.

Blake and Tucker are in your face type of players, but can both put the puck in the net.

Sundin and Wellwood can put the puck in the net, and set up goals when needed, and both do it extremely well.

Antro and Poni are both large players, and played quite well last season. They've both had large expectations placed on them next to Sundin, and should play better on 2nd/3rd line roles, same with Bell to a certain extent.

You have a guy like Steen that could be effective on a top line, and maintain that effectiveness throughout the lineup down towards the 4th line. Stajan can play that "defensive" role, and play on the PK. You also have quite a few players that play the checking role on the 4th line pretty well, in Bates, Kilger, Deveraux and Pohl.

This is an extremely good assessment and several of the points made above, are the same ones I struggled with when making up my line up. Though I am not totally satisfied with player combos and would like to see some infusion of young talented players here it is...

Blake Sundin Wellwood
Ponikarovsky Antropov Bell
Tucker Steen Kilger
Battaglia Pohl Devereaux
Reserve Stajan Belak

McCabe Kaberle
Colaiacovo Kubina
White Gill
Stralman Kronwall

Toskala Raycroft

Young Players to fill holes
Brent Aubin
Robert Earl
Tyler Ruegsegger
Jiri Tlusty
Jeremy Williams

Please explain to me how Matt Stajan doesnt make your lineup and guys like John Pohl and Bates Battaglia do?

[Tor-Rap-Tor]

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Please explain to me how Matt Stajan doesnt make your lineup and guys like John Pohl and Bates Battaglia do?

This is one of the problems I had, when making my line up...

I just think Pohl and Battaglia are better checkers but Stajan could fill in for Steen on the 3rd line, should he get injured or could plug in to any spot on the 3rd and 4th lines. It's very tough to assess best combos and should Tlusty make the team out of camp Kilger would be moved down to the 4th line complicating choices even more ...

The other big problem I had to look at is the 2nd and 3rd lines they can almost be swapped and the only change I would make is changing Bell for Kilger if they were...

Defence is a problem too where do Harrison and Wozniewski fit in and will Stralman make the team?...

There are a lot of questions and only after camp and pre-season are over will Lines and Defence be set...

[Griff83]

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This is one of the problems I had, when making my line up...

I just think Pohl and Battaglia are better checkers but Stajan could fill in for Steen on the 3rd line, should he get injured or could plug in to any spot on the 3rd and 4th lines. It's very tough to assess best combos and should Tlusty make the team out of camp Kilger would be moved down to the 4th line complicating choices even more ...

The other big problem I had to look at is the 2nd and 3rd lines they can almost be swapped and the only change I would make is changing Bell for Kilger if they were...

Defence is a problem too where do Harrison and Wozniewski fit in and will Stralman make the team?...

There are a lot of questions and only after camp and pre-season are over will Lines and Defence be set...

Stajan is easily a better player then those 2 guys tho and still very young and much more apart of our future then Bates Battaglia or John Pohl. If Stajan is going to play on the fourth line or sit, it would be smarter to just trade him for a asset.

[Tor-Rap-Tor]

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Stajan is easily a better player then those 2 guys tho and still very young and much more apart of our future then Bates Battaglia or John Pohl. If Stajan is going to play on the fourth line or sit, it would be smarter to just trade him for a asset.

If he can raise his game a bit, I might even think putting him on the 3rd line with Tucker and Steen but as last year is the only way to judge a player's strengths or lack of, how else can we assess him...

I think The Checking Line is best without him and as for trading him for an asset, he is an asset. There is very little chance that we will have an injury free season and as a good Center, he will be used a great deal and may pick up his game a bit, if he does he may become a fixture and stay, moving another player down the list...

He has been quoted as saying (no link), that he intended to pick up his game and do just what I mentioned above

[Griff83]

Whats with all this putting Wellwood on the wing stuff? Hes never going to come close to maxing out his potential playing wing, his creativity in open ice would also become alot more restricted then when playing Center and his size would be alot more of a detriment on wing then at center. If anything I put Sundin on the wing and have Wellwood center the line before making Wellwood into a winger, which he has never been throughout any of his hockey career.

[Tor-Rap-Tor]

Whats with all this putting Wellwood on the wing stuff? Hes never going to come close to maxing out his potential playing wing, his creativity in open ice would also become alot more restricted then when playing Center and his size would be alot more of a detriment on wing then at center. If anything I put Sundin on the wing and have Wellwood center the line before making Wellwood into a winger, which he has never been throughout any of his hockey career.

We have 7 centers, 5 Left wingers and 1 Right winger (Tucker), so players will be playing out of position, Mats Sundin is our best face-off man and should stay in the center. To get the fire power and sharp passing on the first line Wellwood can play either wing and so can Blake, I put Wellwood on the left side and Blake on the right but they could be reversed as could most, if not all the players on the team...

Wellwood played last year with Sundin and Tucker, especially on the power play and he played Left Wing and he did very well...

With the addition of Blake, a potential 40 goal scorer, playing with Wellwood and Sundin wow!, they are the best wingers Sundin has Had here in quite a while...

[Griff83]

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We have 7 centers, 5 Left wingers and 1 Right winger (Tucker), so players will be playing out of position, Mats Sundin is our best face-off man and should stay in the center. To get the fire power and sharp passing on the first line Wellwood can play either wing and so can Blake, I put Wellwood on the left side and Blake on the right but they could be reversed as could most, if not all the players on the team...

Wellwood played last year with Sundin and Tucker, especially on the power play and he played Left Wing and he did very well...

With the addition of Blake, a potential 40 goal scorer, playing with Wellwood and Sundin wow!, they are the best wingers Sundin has Had here in quite a while...

That line would be

a.)Horrific in the corners
b.)Terrible in its own end along the boards
c.)Too small to be effective come playoff time

Its very easy playing wing on the PP(where Wellwood played wing last year) , you hardly ever get touched when you have the puck. Wellwood would be lucky to last a full season on wing at ES without getting injured. His game consists of open ice creativity and when your pinned on the boards in your own end and mostly thru the neutral zone, this really restricts being able to be creative, especially when your only about 5'9 and will get thrown into the boards reguarly by big hit after big hit.

That line would greatly lack any sort of physical force. Wellwood, Blake and Sundin will see plenty of time on the PP together, I dont see the need to throw Wellwood on the wing (a position again, he has never played more then a few games at in his career). We dont have much talent as it is up front and sticking all 3 on one line would make our next 2 lines very short on skill/playmakers.

[Tor-Rap-Tor]

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That line would be

a.)Horrific in the corners
b.)Terrible in its own end along the boards
c.)Too small to be effective come playoff time

Its very easy playing wing on the PP(where Wellwood played wing last year) , you hardly ever get touched when you have the puck. Wellwood would be lucky to last a full season on wing at ES without getting injured. His game consists of open ice creativity and when your pinned on the boards in your own end and mostly thru the neutral zone, this really restricts being able to be creative, especially when your only about 5'9 and will get thrown into the boards reguarly by big hit after big hit.

That line would greatly lack any sort of physical force. Wellwood, Blake and Sundin will see plenty of time on the PP together, I dont see the need to throw Wellwood on the wing (a position again, he has never played more then a few games at in his career). We dont have much talent as it is up front and sticking all 3 on one line would make our next 2 lines very short on skill/playmakers.

Wellwood. Blake and Tucker are all around the same height and weight and are listed as 5'10" and 180 lbs (Tucker is 178) but no matter where you play, center or wing, your going to take your lumps by imposing very large Defencemen but the speed this line would bring to the table along with the fire power and great passing would certainly more than make up for getting bumped off the puck a little more often. When playing with Sundin last year he didn't look out of place and he did play on Sundin's wing more than just on the power play...

Our most productive line was Sundin, Wellwood and Tucker and granted most of the goals were scored on the power play but as a line. Injuries played a big factor in their not sticking together as much as they could have but when they did play together they did produce

Injuries and other factors will determine again where all the players will play but it sure would be nice to see those 3 on a line for a while and to see some amazing passing and shooting they will display-- can't wait!

[Griff83]

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Wellwood. Blake and Tucker are all around the same height and weight and are listed as 5'10" and 180 lbs (Tucker is 178) but no matter where you play, center or wing, your going to take your lumps by imposing very large Defencemen but the speed this line would bring to the table along with the fire power and great passing would certainly more than make up for getting bumped off the puck a little more often. When playing with Sundin last year he didn't look out of place and he did play on Sundin's wing more than just on the power play...

Our most productive line was Sundin, Wellwood and Tucker and granted most of the goals were scored on the power play but as a line. Injuries played a big factor in their not sticking together as much as they could have but when they did play together they did produce

Injuries and other factors will determine again where all the players will play but it sure would be nice to see those 3 on a line for a while and to see some amazing passing and shooting they will display-- can't wait!

Difference is those 2 Tucker and Blake are far more agressive and physical compared to Wellwood. Centermen dont take nearly the amount of punishment from hits that a winger do. Sure that line will have good speed, but you cant always just carry the puck into the opposing teams zone and this line would have nightmares trying to retrieve the puck after dumping it in.

How many games did Wellwood play wing last season maybe 10? Thats not even close to a big enough sample size to start to think he will be effective on wing over a 82 game schedule. Sure would be some nice highlight reel goals with those 3, but alot of mats offensive strength comes from cycling the puck down low and I couldnt see a line of him, Wellwood and Blake being very effective at this due to the other 2 players size.

I think Steen or Antropov would be a much better fit alongside Sundin/Blake.

[Crowned]

Size isn't everything in the 'new' NHL. It makes a difference, but when you have a big Mats Sundin, and a fiesty Jason Blake next to you, that "this line is too small" comment comes into question.

I've seen too much of Antropov and Poni on the top line, and they were "big" players, they did diddly squat out there in next to Sundin. I'm not to sure how you can dismiss the idea before even witnessing the outcome, it's something worth looking at.

Detroit's largest forward is 6'3, and played an insignificant role with the team. They have Zetts (6'0, 190), Dats (5'11, 185), Draper (5'10, 190), Holmstrom (5'11, 185), Hudler (5'9, 178), Maltby (6'0, 190) all playing large roles with the team. They're not exactly a big team, but got it done throughout the season.

My point is, whe you have Sundin next to a fiesty player (regardless of size), it makes it a bit easier for Wellwood. It may not workout due to the size/strength issue, but it's worth exploring, based on the potential outcome alone.

[Griff83]

Size isn't everything in the 'new' NHL. It makes a difference, but when you have a big Mats Sundin, and a fiesty Jason Blake next to you, that "this line is too small" comment comes into question.

I've seen too much of Antropov and Poni on the top line, and they were "big" players, they did diddly squat out there in next to Sundin. I'm not to sure how you can dismiss the idea before even witnessing the outcome, it's something worth looking at.

Detroit's largest forward is 6'3, and played an insignificant role with the team. They have Zetts (6'0, 190), Dats (5'11, 185), Draper (5'10, 190), Holmstrom (5'11, 185), Hudler (5'9, 178), Maltby (6'0, 190) all playing large roles with the team. They're not exactly a big team, but got it done throughout the season.

My point is, whe you have Sundin next to a fiesty player (regardless of size), it makes it a bit easier for Wellwood. It may not workout due to the size/strength issue, but it's worth exploring, based on the potential outcome alone.

Yes size isnt everything in the new rules NHL, but find me a line with 2 wingers that are 5'9- 5'10 that is effective. The game has turned into a more offensive open ice game, but dumping and chasing is still a big part of the game and always will be. I dont see a line of Wellwood, Sundin and Blake being good at retreiving pucks and this will limit there offensive production.

The stat sheet might not show you this but Antropov was actually very effective last season when healthy playing on Sundin's wing. Now I never said I wanted both Poni and Antropov on the top line again, but every line needs that player who will do the dirty work, sacrifice his body in the corners on a regular basis and im not sure that line would have enough of that to fully be as good as it seems on Paper. Blake might be a fiesty mother, but he's never been strong in the corners and mediocre at cycling the puck.

On top of that I dont like moving Wellwood to wing, he wouldnt be able to be as creative and the risk of him getting injured greatly increases. But hell, Try it out, i just dont think it will be as effective/dominant as it might seem on paper.

[jalenrose#5]

My Lines

Steen/Sundin/Antropov
**Skilled, big top line, no pushing these guys around
Tucker/Wellwood/Blake
**Smaller, skilled group, a creative passer like Welly paired with Blake
Poni/Bell/Kilger
**A big physical, yet skilled third line, can be a good two way line.
Pohl(Boyd)/Stajan/Battaglia(Boyd)
**A typical checking line

Kaberle/Kubina
McCabe/Carlo
Gill/Stralman

Xtra: White

Goalies

Toskala/Razor

[Tor-Rap-Tor]

I liked my first line-up the best but lets try and see if we can address all the objections that it incurred...

Tucker Sundin Blake
Steen Wellwood Bell
Ponikarovsky Antropov Kilger
Pohl Stajan Devereaux

Reserve Newbury Battaglia Belak

Same Defence/Goal

This looks pretty solid but if any younger players Ruegsegger, Tlusty or Williams make the team out of camp it could all change...

(Last minute minute position change)

[youreachiteach]

I liked my first line-up the best but lets try and see if we can address all the objections that it incurred...

Tucker Sundin Blake
Steen Wellwood Bell
Ponikarovsky Antropov Kilger
Pohl Stajan Devereaux

Reserve Newbury Battaglia Belak

Same Defence/Goal

This looks pretty solid but if any younger players Ruegsegger, Tlusty or Williams make the team out of camp it could all change...

(Last minute minute position change)

Poni Sundin Blake
Steen Wellwood Bell
Tucker Antro Williams/ Tlusty
Kilger Stajan Devereaux

Carlo McCabe
Kaberle Kubina
Gill Stralman.

Extra: White

Goalie: Toskala (70)/Raycroft (30)

Sundin gets help on the boards and an outlet to pass to in front of the net.
Wellwood gets protection and speed (with scoring touch) to complement his passing skills. Antro and Tucker grind it out, and Tlusty Williams finishes.Not a bad transition line. Stajan Kilger and Devereaux were our hottest socrers on some nights last year. They go back to their proper places and still present a strong threat offensively.

The defenseman are spread out to provide a stay at home with a more offensively minded player/passer.

Goalie is obvious.

[npw001]

Jason Blake/Mats Sundin/Darcy Tucker -----Skill, Speed, Grit
Alexander Steen/Kyle Wellwood/Matt Stajan-----Young, Versatile, Similar levels
Alex Ponikarovsky/Mark Bell/Nik Antropov----Big Bashers, Decent Skill, Hard to Handle
Bates Battaglia/Chad Kilger/Boyd Devereaux ----- Veterans, Responsible, Good Skaters
Extras: John Pohl/Wade Belak


Bryan McCabe/ Carlo Colaiacovo
Tomas Kaberle/ Pavel Kubina
Hal Gill/ Ian White
Extras: Andy Wozniewski

Goalie Vesa Toskala
Goalie Andrew Raycroft (until he's traded)