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Leafs Pre-Season Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:52 am
by The-Insider
why hasn't there been a thread for this yet? :cry:

@ Edmonton - 18th (Oilers: 3-2 final)
http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=270918006
@ Phoenix - 19th (Leafs 3-2 final)
http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=270919024
vs. Phoenix - 20th (Coyotes 3-2 final)
http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=270920021
@ Boston - 22nd (Leafs 4-3 SO final)
http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=270922001

vs. Ottawa - 24th (7:30pm ET)
vs. Buffalo - 26th (7:30pm ET)
vs. Detroit 28th (7:30pm ET)
@. Detroit 29th (7pm ET)

Not too concerned about winning or losing tonight; just looking for some quality things. Pogge playing well, and perhaps some good special teams work.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:05 am
by MAS
Pogge looks great so far, and Poni had a nice backhand

The score is 1-1

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:58 am
by Crowned
I wish it was at the ACC tonight, I could just hear it now...


PO-GGE! PO-GGE! PO-GGE!

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:11 am
by MAS
Crowned wrote:I wish it was at the ACC tonight, I could just hear it now...


PO-GGE! PO-GGE! PO-GGE!


The problem i see with Pogge is that his puck handling isn't as good as we're used to. Other than that he's been solid.

Also, McCabe has looked pretty good so far. In position defensively and got a nice goal too. Syvret lost an edge and McCabe just walked into the slot and blasted it past Dubnyk

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:28 am
by MAS
Gamache looks like he has some skills and he's fast. But what I've noticed is that he tries to force the play too much, if a pass isn't there, it isn't there. Also, yes he does go to the front of the net but once he's in a scrum he doesn't really fight back, or he didn't in that particular case

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:40 am
by MAS
Game is over

Pogge blew the shot in OT, final score 3-2. But it also looked like a deflection, the defense blew it too, the pair that was on the ice was Carlo and McCabe

What I noticed over the game (and something I've thought about in the past few years) is that on the power play or when momentum is on our side, our shot selection is pretty bad. It's like in basketball, if you take too many mid-range jump shots and 3 pointers then the likely hood is your going to miss more than you'll hit.

The shots the Leafs take are usually out in the perimeter or a random swing when the shooter isn't even looking where he's shooting (Tucker is very good at that). First of all for the latter, the likely hood of it being on net is slim to none. For the first one, it's just that when a guy like McCabe has the shot, he takes too long to take the shot. It gives the goalie enough time to get set. It's like picking cherries to the goalie. If he shoots as the pass is coming across to him it would be even more tough.

The difference between the Leafs and the Ducks is really the inability to go into the slot at will. You'll notice when your watching the playoffs that the big bodies of the Ducks will go inside the PK or the defending teams defensive box, and are able to take the abuse they give. We try to do that, but we tend to get hurt while doing it, which leads to our injuries.

But for tonight, it's only pre-season, this isn't the team you'll see on Oct. 3rd. So I'm not too worried.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:13 am
by youreachiteach
MAS wrote:Game is over

Pogge blew the shot in OT, final score 3-2. But it also looked like a deflection, the defense blew it too, the pair that was on the ice was Carlo and McCabe

What I noticed over the game (and something I've thought about in the past few years) is that on the power play or when momentum is on our side, our shot selection is pretty bad. It's like in basketball, if you take too many mid-range jump shots and 3 pointers then the likely hood is your going to miss more than you'll hit.

The shots the Leafs take are usually out in the perimeter or a random swing when the shooter isn't even looking where he's shooting (Tucker is very good at that). First of all for the latter, the likely hood of it being on net is slim to none. For the first one, it's just that when a guy like McCabe has the shot, he takes too long to take the shot. It gives the goalie enough time to get set. It's like picking cherries to the goalie. If he shoots as the pass is coming across to him it would be even more tough.

The difference between the Leafs and the Ducks is really the inability to go into the slot at will. You'll notice when your watching the playoffs that the big bodies of the Ducks will go inside the PK or the defending teams defensive box, and are able to take the abuse they give. We try to do that, but we tend to get hurt while doing it, which leads to our injuries.

But for tonight, it's only pre-season, this isn't the team you'll see on Oct. 3rd. So I'm not too worried.


You're right about how the powerplay was(last year)... but I'm telling you. I watched Blake, Sundin and Antro out there in the blue and white game...they were fabulous. They have chemistry already. I think we have a line that could have three thirty goal scorers to rival Ottawa's big three.

I seriously doubt we'll have the same problems this year, because we'll just have too many weapons. We'll be able to create so many mismatches down low with the size of Sundin and Antro, and watching Blake will open up the points. Good luck for the opposing penalty kill. And, oh yeah, Blake is great defensively, too, so look out for those end to end rushes after he breaks up a two on one to go the other way. The Wellwood Poni Tucker combo needs work. I'd put Tlusty out there...he's the better finisher.

It doesn't seem like Maurice is sweating the first four games. He is simply using them as an evaluating tool, and then he'll take who he likes to implement his system. He mentioned on Leafs TV that he is separating the first four games from the last four (the last four being clearly the time to practice with what amounts to the ALMOST "A" team). I don't think the Leafs tried to practice "anything" today that the coach had planned.

To be honest, it didn't seem like they were trying except for the first and last few minutes of the first and the third period/overtime (after Mo probably tore a strip off them for leaving Pogge out to dry).

Maurice said he was going to roll the lines, and he was basically sending out everyone and their mother on the PK and PP with absolutely no pattern; just to see what they could do.He had Ondrus playing with Tlusty, and Jeremy Williams seemed like he was being double shifted.

Gamache is ok, just small, and not particularly adept defensively. I've seen him dish out hits, so I don;t think he's a pansy. And from what I saw of the blue and white game (and heard on the radio today) Pogge made some nice tape to tape passes and clearouts..but I'll watch for that after I..."acquire" the game later.

One thing annoyed me though. I just listened to the game, so I'm not one hundred per cent certain, but from what I heard Wellwood pissed me off. I can't count howmany times he let himself get taken out of the play or tried to get too cute with his passes. He also needs to shoot more, he has a decent shot, even if it's not powerful (at least get a backhand off!!). Teams are just going to let him skate himself into no man's land and then crunch him like a grape. He'll be better, I know, but those kind of habits need to be broken soon.

I also wasn't impressed with Jeremy Williams, he struggles with the speed of the game. He blew a tire all by himself like 4 times in the game. He also has problems finishing and takes too long to shoot. Bell seemed like a passenger most of the game, although he did throw a few healf-hearted hits. He needs to ratchet up the enthusiasm, even if he isn't gonna play.

I like Tlusty and the Finnish kid, they were good. I think they could make the team...but I think only Tlusty makes it, based on his shooting skill. I'd rather Gamache than Belak, too. Bell sits as the extra forward who replaces Kilger if he gets hot.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:28 pm
by Griff83
youreachiteach wrote:
MAS wrote:Game is over

Pogge blew the shot in OT, final score 3-2. But it also looked like a deflection, the defense blew it too, the pair that was on the ice was Carlo and McCabe

What I noticed over the game (and something I've thought about in the past few years) is that on the power play or when momentum is on our side, our shot selection is pretty bad. It's like in basketball, if you take too many mid-range jump shots and 3 pointers then the likely hood is your going to miss more than you'll hit.

The shots the Leafs take are usually out in the perimeter or a random swing when the shooter isn't even looking where he's shooting (Tucker is very good at that). First of all for the latter, the likely hood of it being on net is slim to none. For the first one, it's just that when a guy like McCabe has the shot, he takes too long to take the shot. It gives the goalie enough time to get set. It's like picking cherries to the goalie. If he shoots as the pass is coming across to him it would be even more tough.

The difference between the Leafs and the Ducks is really the inability to go into the slot at will. You'll notice when your watching the playoffs that the big bodies of the Ducks will go inside the PK or the defending teams defensive box, and are able to take the abuse they give. We try to do that, but we tend to get hurt while doing it, which leads to our injuries.

But for tonight, it's only pre-season, this isn't the team you'll see on Oct. 3rd. So I'm not too worried.


You're right about how the powerplay was(last year)... but I'm telling you. I watched Blake, Sundin and Antro out there in the blue and white game...they were fabulous. They have chemistry already. I think we have a line that could have three thirty goal scorers to rival Ottawa's big three.

I seriously doubt we'll have the same problems this year, because we'll just have too many weapons. We'll be able to create so many mismatches down low with the size of Sundin and Antro, and watching Blake will open up the points. Good luck for the opposing penalty kill. And, oh yeah, Blake is great defensively, too, so look out for those end to end rushes after he breaks up a two on one to go the other way. The Wellwood Poni Tucker combo needs work. I'd put Tlusty out there...he's the better finisher.

It doesn't seem like Maurice is sweating the first four games. He is simply using them as an evaluating tool, and then he'll take who he likes to implement his system. He mentioned on Leafs TV that he is separating the first four games from the last four (the last four being clearly the time to practice with what amounts to the ALMOST "A" team). I don't think the Leafs tried to practice "anything" today that the coach had planned.

To be honest, it didn't seem like they were trying except for the first and last few minutes of the first and the third period/overtime (after Mo probably tore a strip off them for leaving Pogge out to dry).

Maurice said he was going to roll the lines, and he was basically sending out everyone and their mother on the PK and PP with absolutely no pattern; just to see what they could do.He had Ondrus playing with Tlusty, and Jeremy Williams seemed like he was being double shifted.

Gamache is ok, just small, and not particularly adept defensively. I've seen him dish out hits, so I don;t think he's a pansy. And from what I saw of the blue and white game (and heard on the radio today) Pogge made some nice tape to tape passes and clearouts..but I'll watch for that after I..."acquire" the game later.

One thing annoyed me though. I just listened to the game, so I'm not one hundred per cent certain, but from what I heard Wellwood pissed me off. I can't count howmany times he let himself get taken out of the play or tried to get too cute with his passes. He also needs to shoot more, he has a decent shot, even if it's not powerful (at least get a backhand off!!). Teams are just going to let him skate himself into no man's land and then crunch him like a grape. He'll be better, I know, but those kind of habits need to be broken soon.

I also wasn't impressed with Jeremy Williams, he struggles with the speed of the game. He blew a tire all by himself like 4 times in the game. He also has problems finishing and takes too long to shoot. Bell seemed like a passenger most of the game, although he did throw a few healf-hearted hits. He needs to ratchet up the enthusiasm, even if he isn't gonna play.

I like Tlusty and the Finnish kid, they were good. I think they could make the team...but I think only Tlusty makes it, based on his shooting skill. I'd rather Gamache than Belak, too. Bell sits as the extra forward who replaces Kilger if he gets hot.


Wow slow down there. Sure they might have some good chemistry and turn out to be a very good line, but saying they will rival the Sens top line? a line that had a 100pt/50 goal scorer, Spezza who was on pace to hit the hundred mark if he played the full season and Alfreddson who was a 85+ pt scorer last season. Sure the Leafs line could all pot 30 goals, but there arent going to come close to putting up the point totals that a Heatley, Spezza and Alfreddson line will.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:58 pm
by jalenrose#5
Here is tonight's lineup.

Forwards:

Jason Blake - Mats Sundin - Nik Antropov

Chad Kilger - John Pohl - Alex Steen

Bates Battaglia - Simon Gamache - Jeremy Williams

Colin Murphy - Ben Ondrus - Nathan Perrott

Defence:

Hal Gill - Ian White

Andy Wozniewski - Pavel Kubina

Bruno St. Jacques - Staffan Kronwall

Goalies:

Andrew Raycroft - Starting

Justin Pogge

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:54 am
by MAS
Looked like the typical Leafs tonight. They played well in the 1st and 3rd periods, but had major brain cramps in the 2nd. We saw a lot of this type of thing last year which blew a few games

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:38 am
by GoRapstheoriginal
Dood they won! Be happy! :P

P.S. How's it goin'?

P.P.S I hope I get a earlier shift @ the end of the month coming up
so I can be in the chat for Raps and Leafs games this year! :) (It's me GoRaps btw! :))

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:05 pm
by MAS
GoRapstheoriginal wrote:Dood they won! Be happy! :P

P.S. How's it goin'?

P.P.S I hope I get a earlier shift @ the end of the month coming up
so I can be in the chat for Raps and Leafs games this year! :) (It's me GoRaps btw! :))


Yep i knew who it was, nice man We'll be seeing you on the Raps chat then

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:22 am
by youreachiteach
BlueJay_ wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Wow slow down there. Sure they might have some good chemistry and turn out to be a very good line, but saying they will rival the Sens top line? a line that had a 100pt/50 goal scorer, Spezza who was on pace to hit the hundred mark if he played the full season and Alfreddson who was a 85+ pt scorer last season. Sure the Leafs line could all pot 30 goals, but there arent going to come close to putting up the point totals that a Heatley, Spezza and Alfreddson line will.


Uh...I said rival, not equal.

Anyhoo, Blake had 40 goals last year playing with the lziest center that ever walked the planet. You don't think he could get fifty with Mats? Please.

And if Blake gets 50, then Sundin gets ...a lot. Probably, say..more than 85 points?

And Antro...he could get thirty and pick up a lot of cheap assists.

Bottom line: It will be one of the most dominant lines in the league this year. Period.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:36 am
by UTMCretin
youreachiteach wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Uh...I said rival, not equal.

Anyhoo, Blake had 40 goals last year playing with the lziest center that ever walked the planet. You don't think he could get fifty with Mats? Please.

And if Blake gets 50, then Sundin gets ...a lot. Probably, say..more than 85 points?

And Antro...he could get thirty and pick up a lot of cheap assists.

Bottom line: It will be one of the most dominant lines in the league this year. Period.


I'd like to be the first to say that no, I don't think Blake could get 50 goals playing with Sundin

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:41 am
by NeverGoingToWin
How did you guys think Toskala looked tonight?

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:41 am
by youreachiteach
AirCanada_1515 wrote:How did you guys think Toskala looked tonight?


I think he looked like the starting goaltender who has had the least work and is the least on the bubble.

The whole team stunk tonight--yes, mainly playing secondary players-- and Toskala wasn't thrilled about his D. He's a positional goalie, and the Leafs defence was coughing the puck up so much he was up and down like a two dollar you know what trying to get his position fixed.

TSN seems to think he was "soft". The first goal, the team had a chance to get the puck out of the zone twice, and couldn't. The puck changed directions and was tipped. I don't think you can call a tipped shot a soft goal, but whatever. He did look like he was trying to get himself together.
It looked much worse of a goal to let in than it was. Telquist let in a bad goal himself, and if it wasn't for a horrific powerplay mainly because of laziness, the Leafs take this one. They have to start coming out with more effort. I just don't get it. This is a chnce to win jobs and players are floating out there. I know Maurice has said these games are somewhat less important, but come on. At least compete and pay attention to the play.

To be honest, the Leafs are spending too much time trying to hit the opposition and settle scores (probably in an effort to impress Maurice with their "toughness" which is obviously high on his list for his players) instead of playing the dam* puck. Playing the man is great, but sometimes just taking the puck away is the smarter option. When they miss their man, they are leaving the puck in areas where it can be sent on to scorers.

Meh, it's still pre-season, but all in all, it looks like the team has the same bad habits it has had the last two years--laziness, poor breakout patterns, and half-as$ed d.

Raycroft and Pogge have had chances to play within the Leafs "system" (ie. they know they aren'tgonna get any help positionally) for some time, and it took Toskala some time to get acclimated to their crap play.

Once he did, he made several good saves. He had absolutely no chance on the other two. He looked like he was smooth with the puck, anyway.

They had better play with a purpose after the Boston game when they get their full team together, because the fans will not stand for this kind of BS three years in a row. Heads are gonna' roll.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:43 am
by youreachiteach
UTMCretin wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I'd like to be the first to say that no, I don't think Blake could get 50 goals playing with Sundin


Why not? Well, we'll see.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:18 am
by UTMCretin
youreachiteach wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Why not? Well, we'll see.



Well, let's look at it (and by look at it, I mean needlessly overanalyze a rather simple question to eliminate all possible hope). Blake is now 34 years old, and I think its safe to say that he's hit his peak, skill-wise. Which makes one predict that his yearly production would see no large aberrations over this time period, and remain fairly consistent (which is what all predictions must base themselves upon to be legitimately believable). The difference between last year, when he scored 40 goals, and the two years previous when he combined to score 50 in total, are his shooting percentage.

In 2003-2004 and 2005-2006, his shooting percentages were nearly identical (.091 and .092). He scored six extra goals after the lockout thanks to taking a lot more shots as a much bigger part of the offense (304 total). Then, over the past year he took nearly identical number of shots as in 2005-2006, only this time, they went in with much greater regularity (.131). This is a huge aberration, one that a rarely ever occurs in a players career, especially considering the highest his shooting percentages ever were before was still under 10%. When such an aberration happens, it begs the (valid) question of whether that year was just a fluke, or whether it was actually serious and rapid development on the player's part.

Assuming Blake really did develop to the level of a consistent 40 goal scorer (a pretty big assumption), it still remains near impossible that he will score 50 this year. For Blake to score 50 goals this year, he would need to receive 381 shots, assuming he stayed on the same level as he did last year. Or, in other words, more shots than anyone in the league not named Alexander Ovechkin (who played an even bigger role on an even worse team). This is incredibly unlikely because he will be going from a line in which he was the ultimate focus on offense, to a line with Mats Sundin, who took even more shots last year than Blake did. Both men were actually Top 10 in the league in total shots.

On this proposed Sundin-Blake-random person line, there just wouldn't be nearly enough shots to go around, much less Blake actually shoot more often as he would to reach the 50 goal platform. The only two players who shoot that much on the same team are Hossa and Kovalchuk, and both of those players are easily superior to Sundin and Blake (in efficiency and overall skill level). And on different lines, Blake just wouldn't see enough playing time to get it done (much less increase his shot total to the aforementioned amount).

To conclude, Blake just doesn't have what it takes in his skill-set, nor will he plausibly reach the opportunity to produce said numbers. He is not a feature player, and will likely lose shot attempts as the result of a decreased focus on his offensive abilities both by his teammates and by his entering into a new offensive system. So that's why.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:38 am
by youreachiteach
[quote="UTMCretin"][/quote]

So,according to your number crunching, first of all, it's totally impossible he's improved his selection of shots. He was simply a fluke. That's not what I see when I watch him, but whatever.

Second, your argument rests on the notion that despite the fact that Sundin is a better player and draws much more attention than Yashin, Blake wouldn't be able to get fifty because Sundin usually takes more shots than Blake. Gee, I wonder why that was? Could it be because he Sundin hasn't ever had the player a calibre of Blake before? Do ya think he might pass more now, like say, how he did to score the keygoal the other night? I guess not though, because "percentages" say he won't.

I'd say, if Sundin stays healthy (and he stays healthy), Blake could get fifty, or near it. He's gonna score the exact same goals on that line that stone hands Antro and Poni couldn't get--the chip ins. That's why he's got a great shot at it. That's why he is a threat. Sundin creates these situations by dragging himself along the crease. Players like Blake know where to go to finish those plays--and Sundin does it every game. Before, this year, they'd simply gamble on Sundin and let the stone hands shoot it into the goalie. But not this year. Prepare to be surprised.

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:34 pm
by Griff83
[quote="youreachiteach"][/quote]

No I dont think a guy whos been a perennial 25goal a year player is all the sudden going to score 50 at the age of 34, he's playing with Mats Sundin not Sidney Crosby.

Damn all your posts deal in extremes and best case scenarios, ive not heard one leaf fan (and ive talked to some huge homers) even contenplate Blake scoring 50 goals because its so far fetched.