RealGM

Well I stand corrected...

The system the Leaf's played tonight against Ottawa, shows a system of back checking and defense that has been sorely missing all year and same with last year as well. This surely shows how this team can play with a little direction, they were in position all night and it was a great game to watch...

Then Toskala stood on his head and clinched the game with a great performance...

This truthfully is the first game, I have watched all year from start to finish, even when there was no score, I thought the leaf's were going to give Ottawa a run for their money and in fact they won making Ottawa look very ordinary in the process...

It's only one game but if the Leaf's play this kind of hockey we can go a long way and deep in the play-offs...

I know I'm a homer............. Go leaf's Go!

I was really down on White until he started playing with Gill again. I don't get it! Gill is a generally a large slow footed throwbaack to another era, but the mix works.

emfive wrote:I was really down on White until he started playing with Gill again. I don't get it! Gill is a generally a large slow footed throwbaack to another era, but the mix works.

Gill is strong where White is small
White is fast where Gill is slow

ummm...are you sure you're not following why they might mesh? They have perfectly opposite skillsets, both help each other. Gill takes on the initial rush and hammers the forechecker, White takes the puck and whips it up ice (in a perfect world).

That said, when the situations managed to get switched, these two struggle. They work as a third pair playing somewhat limited minutes although I think Gill gets unfairly criticized, and is the better of the two defencemen despite his slowness. White often coughs the puck up and loses his man on the forecheck due to his size. It's a big problem, and one that probably cost him his job when Carlo and Stralman areready.White is forced to rely too much on his stickchecking.

He kills penalties, works hard, and clears the front of the net. Sure he makes some boneheaded plays once in a while, but most D men do.

The problem for the Leafs has been, when they've made mistakes, they haven't recovered to the proper position well enough--until last night. Team defence can make any group look competent, and that's what the Leafs need to do to win.

youreachiteach wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Gill is strong where White is small
White is fast where Gill is slow

ummm...are you sure you're not following why they might mesh? They have perfectly opposite skillsets, both help each other. Gill takes on the initial rush and hammers the forechecker, White takes the puck and whips it up ice (in a perfect world).

That said, when the situations managed to get switched, these two struggle. They work as a third pair playing somewhat limited minutes although I think Gill gets unfairly criticized, and is the better of the two defencemen despite his slowness. White often coughs the puck up and loses his man on the forecheck due to his size. It's a big problem, and one that probably cost him his job when Carlo and Stralman areready.White is forced to rely too much on his stickchecking.

He kills penalties, works hard, and clears the front of the net. Sure he makes some boneheaded plays once in a while, but most D men do.

The problem for the Leafs has been, when they've made mistakes, they haven't recovered to the proper position well enough--until last night. Team defence can make any group look competent, and that's what the Leafs need to do to win.

What Blue Jay...no posting? Why am I not surprised.

youreachiteach wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



What Blue Jay...no posting? Why am I not surprised.

good win last night, but all mediocre teams have a few good wins each season. Hell the Caps beat Ottawa in Ottawa.

The Funny part is you've been nowhere to be seen for the past week before last nights game and all the sudden you show up after a good win.

Keep drinking the kool aid.

The particular trap the Leafs used is actually rather effective. I used it when I coached minor hockey, and can really frustrate teams...especially when you have the lead. It clogs up the neutral zone, and forces the opposing team to come at you, and when it's used properly, the opposing team tends to make more mistakes.

I'd like to see more of it.

BlueJay_ wrote:-= original quote snipped =-





good win last night, but all mediocre teams have a few good wins each season. Hell the Caps beat Ottawa in Ottawa.

The Funny part is you've been nowhere to be seen for the past week before last nights game and all the sudden you show up after a good win.

Keep drinking the kool aid.

What, I should sit around for your b**tching? Please, I have alife. Nice to know though, how "average" Toskala looked today.

youreachiteach wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



What, I should sit around for your b**tching? Please, I have alife. Nice to know though, how "average" Toskala looked today.

Ilya Brzgalov also had a shutout in his first game for the coyotes, still doesnt make him anything more then a average goalie.

again the reason you werent around the past week is cause the leafs lost 3 in a row. You were still posting during this time frame on the Raps board so dont give me this "I have a life and dont have time" crap.

Crowned wrote:The particular trap the Leafs used is actually rather effective. I used it when I coached minor hockey, and can really frustrate teams...especially when you have the lead. It clogs up the neutral zone, and forces the opposing team to come at you, and when it's used properly, the opposing team tends to make more mistakes.
I'd like to see more of it.

Ya I did some minor league coaching too and thats known as a "1-4 trap", there are quite a number of teams using that technique. I have long since given up coaching but since the 2 line pass has come into effect, that seems to work the best and as a matter of fact Ottawa also employs it...

Maurice and Quinn were both trying to introduce a "Flow System" and few teams at the NHL level can accomplish it, it's very effective but only if you have an outstanding team that can get back on defence quickly and few teams in the NHL have that very quick group that can out skate another club. Some also call it a dump and chase and usually you get lots of shots on the net but it puts tremendous pressure on the D and makes players like McCabe look stupid and prone to errors, last night's game showed he is a very good D and needs that type of System...

For the life of me I could not understand why we weren't employing the 1-4 trap and thought that Maurice in trying his zone defence, had lost it but on a dump and chase System you can see why he did used it and why we were always out of position coming back and trying to pick up anyone in our end zone and were constantly out of position and thus were allowing a ton of goals ...

We should forget a Dump and Chase or Flow System and stick with what works, we won't score as many goals and it is rather boring but our goals against will dramatically go down, it requires a really poised group of players though but I think our team can play that way...

Toskala and our D will look really good and I think we have the horses to score enough goals to win a lot of games and enough speed to overwhelm lots of teams and if last night was any indication, the players also want to play that System, as they were pumped and just clobbered Ottawa, so don't let any Ottawa fans say they were tired and just couldn't get going, Plain and simple they were out played...

youreachiteach wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Gill is strong where White is small
White is fast where Gill is slow

ummm...are you sure you're not following why they might mesh? They have perfectly opposite skillsets, both help each other. Gill takes on the initial rush and hammers the forechecker, White takes the puck and whips it up ice (in a perfect world)..

ummm ... Gee thanks for the explanation. I did not realize what my comment the mix works meant until I read your post.

youreachiteach wrote:-= That said, when the situations managed to get switched, these two struggle. They work as a third pair playing somewhat limited minutes although I think Gill gets unfairly criticized, and is the better of the two defencemen despite his slowness. White often coughs the puck up and loses his man on the forecheck due to his size. .

Gee thanks. I will watch for White when he is on the forecheck in the future. Limited minutes? Compared to who? Kaberle and McCabe?

youreachiteach wrote:-= It's a big problem, and one that probably cost him his job when Carlo and Stralman areready.White is forced to rely too much on his stickchecking. .

Well now I think you are getting warmer. I will surely agree with the premise that, that combo would be expected to be more effective in the new NHL.

youreachiteach wrote:-= He kills penalties, works hard, and clears the front of the net. Sure he makes some boneheaded plays once in a while, but most D men do. .

All that in reduced minutes. Amazing.

youreachiteach wrote:-= The problem for the Leafs has been, when they've made mistakes, they haven't recovered to the proper position well enough--until last night. Team defence can make any group look competent, and that's what the Leafs need to do to win.

Specifically ... what the Leafs need to do to win is to have the forwards picking up the correct attacker when (and reduce the if) they backcheck. As they did the other night.

emfive wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Specifically ... what the Leafs need to do to win is to have the forwards picking up the correct attacker when (and reduce the if) they backcheck. As they did the other night.

Yeah, that's what I meant...the OFFENSIVE forecheck.

I meant (in relation to White)when the other team comes in on the forechecks, genius. Duh.

Basically, your whole "musing" argument was unclear from the getgo. I offer a clarification/ simple answer and you bite my head off.

Whatever.

You basically agreed with everything I said and then forced it into a tiny package to pretend I was being vague or didn't understand hockey. Nice try.

Next time, try hazarding a guess as to why something as vague as "the mix works" might make it sound like you don't get why.

[quote="youreachiteach"][/quote]

By the way, they are usually a third pairing, are they not?

That would be reduced minutes, although I know that didn't happen yesterday due to injury.

It's how much they should be playing--about 15 minutes a night.

BlueJay_ wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Ilya Brzgalov also had a shutout in his first game for the coyotes, still doesnt make him anything more then a average goalie.

again the reason you werent around the past week is cause the leafs lost 3 in a row. You were still posting during this time frame on the Raps board so dont give me this "I have a life and dont have time" crap.

Yeah, I wonder why I only post on the Raptor's board...could it be you and your broken record spilt milk crying?

I do visit other hockey boards too...you know, ones that actually have more than 5 people frequent them at a time. And ones that have real hockey fans, not some whiny 5 year old wanna be GM.

Guys, take it easy with the insults and unrelated posts.

Having a heated debate is fine, as long as it stays clean.

youreachiteach wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Yeah, that's what I meant...the OFFENSIVE forecheck.

I meant (in relation to White)when the other team comes in on the forechecks, genius. Duh.

Basically, your whole "musing" argument was unclear from the getgo. I offer a clarification/ simple answer and you bite my head off.

Whatever.

You basically agreed with everything I said and then forced it into a tiny package to pretend I was being vague or didn't understand hockey. Nice try.

Next time, try hazarding a guess as to why something as vague as "the mix works" might make it sound like you don't get why.

Gee your ummmm response to my initial post was soooo polite. Some people can dish it out but can't take it. That is why the internet exists.

Man oh man. I do my best impersonation of HP and I get blasted for it.

Seriously ... I intend no ill will. I guess I got a bit too cute. After all we are both stupid enough to cheer for this sad sack organization.

Crowned wrote:Guys, take it easy with the insults and unrelated posts.

Having a heated debate is fine, as long as it stays clean.

You're right. That went over the line AND insulted the posters who DO post here.

Sorry.

I just get frustrated that there seems to be more people who love to hate the leafs than cheer for them sometimes. Blue Jay, you are entitled to your opinion about JFJ and what shoulda' coulda' been done--I just don't agree and wish you could see that there is some value here.

That goes for emfive as well. I was cocky as h*ll with you too. No sleep watching the freakin Raps lose to Golden State at five in the freaking morning will do that to a person.

No probs.

PS This team is better than it looks. The goaltending is going to make me scream. And the longer it goes on the more mental toughness it will take to get it back together. They need one of these two to put a string of 10 to 12 games together in a hurry.

I would be tempted to bring up the pair from the Marlies and send the other two down for a month. Luckily JFJ is not as impulsive or irrational as I can be sometimes.

PPS Can you imagine Mike Keenan coaching this group. He would have an apoplectic fit and start foaming from his mouth and expire right at the bench. I could see him taking a goalie with him.

I'd love to have Pat Burns behind the bench right now.