The "top 6 forward" concept - is it outdated?

[YogiStewart]

I kind of find it funny and frustrating to hear the Leafs brass talking about "top 6 forwards". While i know that there's a finite amount of icetime, its annoying to hear of teams still wanting to roll out:

-2 forward lines that are skill/scoring lines
-1 line of checkers/pluggers
-1 line of pluggers/physical/goon players

Even after the Kessel trade, Toronto still doesn't have a glamourous set of top 6 forwards. would it result in more wins OR more enjoyable hockey to watch if Toronto adopted a "top 9 forward" philosophy and tried to focus more on skill instead of checking?

[_venom_]

The Leafs now have 1 legitimate top line player (Kessel), a bunch of guys that can be mediocre 2nd liners (Blake, Poni, Hagman, Grabovski), and then a hole slew of 3rd/4th line checkers (Stajan, Mitchell, Mayers, Primeau, Orr, etc...). Acquiring a top line center should be the next thing on the agenda for the Leafs because someone's going to have to get Kessel the puck. Ideally you want a playmaking center with Kessel and then a power forward type who can create space. The Leafs basically have to hope that at least 1 of their young guys (Kulemin, Tlusty, Bozak, Hanson, Stralberg, Kadri) develop into top tier players because they now don't have the picks to fill those holes for 2 years.

And as for the question, I tend to prefer the top 6 forward team with 2 checking/grinding lines. But those 2 scoring lines really have to quality scoring lines. Some of the players we have playing on our top lines wouldn't sniff other teams top lines. Heck, Philly boasts 3 lines that are head and shoulders above our top line (Carter, Richards, Briere all on separate lines).

[bryant08]

I believe the top 6 forward concept was more like:

2 skill/scoring lines
1 energy line
1 line of defensive enforcers

That's the ideal "top 6 forward" concept IMO.

At the moment, whatever the Leafs have done isn't going to fit that moulding. I believe Burke wants to adapt that formula, but it won't be easy. For this season, it's going to have to be a combination of forwards that simply play well together. Probably something like Blake-Grabs-Kessel as the first line, Poni-Stajan-Hagman as the second.

This is a Burke team, they will never lose the idea of having great physicality and specialized players to act as physical/defensive forces (Think of Moen, Pahlsson). Now I know some will argue that perhaps we will use physicality throughout the lineup, but we do need some speed/skill as well regardless. I think this season it's going to be tough for the Leafs to pull out some wins, because I don't think the defense is going to be as good as advertised. But hopefully Burke can either replenish some draft picks throughout the next 2 years or get some better players to try and win now.

[_venom_]

At least 1 defenceman still needs to be moved before the season starts.

Kaberle/Komisarek
Beauchemin/Schenn
Exelby/Finger
Van Ryn/White

I don't think anyone takes Finger with his contract. I'd like to keep White because he provides some much needed offense and he's versatile enough to play forward. That leaves Exelby and Van Ryn. Van ryn is actually pretty good when healthy but he's never healthy. Exelby is the prototypical 5th-6th bruiser dman. I wonder how Burke is going to sort this out because there's going to be a couple of guys wearing suits and not happy about it.

[Crowned]

We don't have a bonifide star first line player, other than Kessel. However, we have quite a few current and future GOOD 2nd line players;

Blake- Excellent 2nd line player, will likely see time on the first line
Hagman- See Blake
Stajan- Believe it or not, he had a strong season last year. Statistically speaking, he's a protype 2nd line player...50-60 points is typically what you expect out of a 2nd line player. He's not glamarous, but he can play.
Poni- Has been in the dog house in the past...but again, you'll get 20 goals and 50 points out of him...not a bad 2nd line option.
Tlusty- Future 2nd line player, needs to put it all together
Kulemin- See Tlusty
Bozak- The kid can flat out play, he could potentially be a 2nd line player in the future
Stalberg- The kid is getting hyped up so far this season...if he continues to play like he has thus far, he could be a new fan favourite.
Hanson- Who knows what the kid is capable of, he's looked good thus far


We're set on defense for a couple of years, we don't necessarily need to focus on that area pending any major injuries. Our main focus is that first line. We have enough players that can play on the 2nd/3rd/4th line. If we can somehow find that player to play next to Kessel, we're going to be in good shape heading forward. Say for arguments sake that we did sign Kovalchuk next summer, we're potentially looking at a first line of Kovalchuk- Kadri- Kessel for the next 10 years, and that's a first line we can build around.

[YogiStewart]

by the way, i am guessing that Kessel and Mitchell play together. just a hunch.

[Deadpool_X]

I don't think it is necessarly outdated. I think it has just evolved slightly.

The best teams in the league all still use this line method, the only difference is their gritty players are usually more gifted on offence and usually paired up with at least one guy on their line that is a scoring threat.

I think that is the way you want to do it.

A great guy to put on the third line would be Stajan. He is an above average defencive player, can score, and can grind it out with a lot of guys.

[The Duke]

I'm fine with the top 6 Forward Traditional style... however we are no where close to having a "top 6 Forward" combination that is worth talking about.

Currently, we might have 4 active players who fit the role, 3 would play on the 2nd line, while Kessel would be the only true player who is a top line player on this team (on a real competitive team)

That means we are a #1 Center and #1 PF away.
(At best we can only aquire 1 via 2010 Free Agency with Cap Space)

Can Kadri be the #1 Center, so we can go after the #1 PF ?
its much too early too tell.

We still need to sort out our goalie situation, but maybe we luck out and Gus is a keeper.

Lot of question marks, for a team that has been thrown into the full win-now mode, when they are not currently built for it right now

[The Duke]

I perfer we shop/trade Kaberle (our best trade chip) for that #1 PF.
We should have a strong/gritty Defensive core with the remaining guys.

But I think its more a priority to add that "PF" to Kessel's #1 Line

[YogiStewart]

I perfer we shop/trade Kaberle (our best trade chip) for that #1 PF.
We should have a strong/gritty Defensive core with the remaining guys.

But I think its more a priority to add that "PF" to Kessel's #1 Line

and this is what prevents me from becoming a Leaf's fan in the near future

[bryant08]

I've been impressed with the Leafs youngsters. Kadri looks like a year in junior could help him, but man Bozak and Hanson are looking like the real deal, and Stalberg has had flashes of great play as well. I don't know if Kadri is the first line forward to play with Kessel in the future, but he's got the speed and skill to make it happen. Bozak is the ideal second line center, he's been a solid defensive player although he's looked uncomfortable manning the point on the PP. But just tonight against Buffalo, we were down 3-2 with our net pulled and Bozak saved a goal with his defensive effort, it's that type of small effort this team is going to need to be successful in the future. And on the Mitchell prediction, it's a bold one, but I understand where you're coming from. Mitchell's reaction when asked about the possibility was that he would be willing to work in the corners and do whatever it takes to get Kessel the puck. RW has a love affair with Mitchell and to be honest he impressed in bigger minutes last season. I could see it happening.

[The Duke]

I perfer we shop/trade Kaberle (our best trade chip) for that #1 PF.
We should have a strong/gritty Defensive core with the remaining guys.

But I think its more a priority to add that "PF" to Kessel's #1 Line

and this is what prevents me from becoming a Leaf's fan in the near future

I'm not exactly sure what you mean but I think I know what u mean, b/c it prevented me from continuing my NHL fanship for a long time. I'm guessing u mean the lack of a long term plan, which I agree we sorely lacked for the last 5 or so years.

When I suggested to trade Kabrele I wasn't suggesting for an over the hill player (thats been exactly whats wrong with the last 5 or so years), I was suggesting for a young PF with skill. Kabrele is a great vet with skill, and moving him to a real contenter could be benefitial to us if the return is adequate. Kabrele is only under contract for another year following, so it mitigates that risk as well.

[Griff83]

I perfer we shop/trade Kaberle (our best trade chip) for that #1 PF.
We should have a strong/gritty Defensive core with the remaining guys.

But I think its more a priority to add that "PF" to Kessel's #1 Line

and this is what prevents me from becoming a Leaf's fan in the near future

For someone who says that they cant pull themselves to be a leaf fan anytime soon, you spend alot of time posting on this hockey forum and starting threads to complain about the style of play they are going to use.

If you're not a Leafs fan (which it obviosly says you arent by your above sentence) why are you even posting in here?

[The Duke]

I think Yogi meant that the previous 5-7 years has seen the Leaf Management sacrifice long term gains for very short term gains.... develop/draft players only to sell them for vets who are faction of there old self. My breaking point was with the trades of Boyes and Rask, whatever the "return" we got, I didnt like the concept behind those deals.

[Contract Season]

What about Nathan Horton for Kaberle?

That would be a good move to get a PF.

[Griff83]

What about Nathan Horton for Kaberle?

That would be a good move to get a PF.

If Florida throws in a pick (preferably a 2nd rounder) then I'd pull the trigger on this. Horton is one of my favorite players in the league and his offensive abilities were badly stunted under J. Martin. Hes got good hands, great shot, skates well and sticks up for his teammates on the drop of a dime. He has basically all the same toughness/leadership abilities that you see in Mike Richards. He would also add some decent grit/size to the top line. In the offseason we'd have to look to replace Kaberle somehow with a UFA that can move the puck. Joe Corvo is a UFA in 2010 and he could fill the void that Kaberle brings in moving the puck and PP abilities.

Horton is one tough SOB as well. Watch this video where he pummels Aaron Asham

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOrIDeKmuTA

[The Duke]

Something along these lines of a trade is something I was thinking about.

Its clear that outside of Kabrele... the rest of our defensemen for the upcoming season is better then last years defensemen.

Which is why I'm not against moving Kabrele for a real 1st line PF to grow with Kessel

[YogiStewart]

I perfer we shop/trade Kaberle (our best trade chip) for that #1 PF.
We should have a strong/gritty Defensive core with the remaining guys.

But I think its more a priority to add that "PF" to Kessel's #1 Line

and this is what prevents me from becoming a Leaf's fan in the near future

For someone who says that they cant pull themselves to be a leaf fan anytime soon, you spend alot of time posting on this hockey forum and starting threads to complain about the style of play they are going to use.

If you're not a Leafs fan (which it obviosly says you arent by your above sentence) why are you even posting in here?

i post here for a few reasons.

1) as a moderator, to encourage forum discussions. as you can see, the Leafs' board isn't insanely active at times
2) one doesn't need to be a fan or fanatic to encourage or participate in discussion.I'm not a fan of Iranian world politics, therefore I cannot post my opinion?

Never been a Leafs' fan and I think Leaf fans could understand why. Little to no reason in the last 9 years to be a fan of the Leafs. but i am intruiged by the college signings and by the Kessel trade. intruiged enough that I actually have been watching some exhibition games on tv, which may lead to me being a fan.

sorry that you couldn't figure something that simple out on your own.