PG: Nets Drubbed. Thibs Detractors in Shambles

[kNicksGmen]

39 of 51 wins against teams .500 or worse.

sUcCeSsFuL!

People just don't get it. In some ways I envy them because they can watch this team and think we can make a Finals with ... just one more move from Leon 'The Hutt' Rose ... Capped out, no picks but just one more move will get us from ZERO and FOURTEEN to like .500 vs. elite teams.

The best analogy I can come up with is this: Imagine you take a huge huge loan, a borderline crazy loan which you have to pay off many many years into the future to build that house you imagine...after a couple month you start to see the construction is not looking anything what you imagined it to be...and you still have that huge financial obligation for a result much less pleasing than you wanted.

To me I would have been much more chill about this whole thing and the current situation if we had our 2029 and 2031 FRPs.

this is good analogy. i think the more "positive" fans are the ones that never really think or care about the future or assets etc - they're just enjoying the moment of the knicks at least being a "good" team.

i've said it before but it's the expectations that determine happiness/disappointment. this team had huge expectations and cashed in nearly all of their future assets for it.

[nedleeds]

39 of 51 wins against teams .500 or worse.

sUcCeSsFuL!

People just don't get it. In some ways I envy them because they can watch this team and think we can make a Finals with ... just one more move from Leon 'The Hutt' Rose ... Capped out, no picks but just one more move will get us from ZERO and FOURTEEN to like .500 vs. elite teams.

One coaching change and one move (like swapping out KAT for a 2-way players) could put us on the level of BOS/OKC/CLE... why not.

No it won't. You are just not in the real world on this.

What if Minny wants KAT back and offers us an extended Randle, Divo and a draft pick?

<- you forgot the green font. You don't actually believe they'd do this right?

We have no picks to attach to KATs cap killer deal, even salaries are tough to match.

Swap KATs at best neutral value contract for what positive value two way player?

Is that player a power forward? Then we have Mitch who plays ~50% of games at center. We have 2 mediocre wings in Hart and Bridges.

The best 3 players on BOS are

Tatum
Brown
KP

vs.

Brunson
OG
KAT

Tatum is better than anyone on our roster by a wide margin, I guess Brunson is our best player and Tatum is better. OG is comparable to Brown in impact but he's just worse and less healthy. KP and KAT are a wash, KP is a vastly superior defender KAT is a better offensive player, but for what you want in a spread offense with Brunson I'd rather have KP bombing it at 41.2%.

Jrue Holiday
Derrick White

vs. Bridges and Hart? C'mon man. It's not close. Bridges is homeless Derrick White for 4 more 1st rounders. Jrue is older, but on a completely different plane than HArt who can't hit water with a **** oar.

Bench is Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet and Horford vs. McRib, Precious?, T-Payne?, Shamet?

This is not remotely close. Our bench is one of the worst in the league.

[kNicksGmen]

sUcCeSsFuL!

People just don't get it. In some ways I envy them because they can watch this team and think we can make a Finals with ... just one more move from Leon 'The Hutt' Rose ... Capped out, no picks but just one more move will get us from ZERO and FOURTEEN to like .500 vs. elite teams.

One coaching change and one move (like swapping out KAT for a 2-way players) could put us on the level of BOS/OKC/CLE... why not.

No it won't. You are just not in the real world on this.

What if Minny wants KAT back and offers us an extended Randle, Divo and a draft pick?

<- you forgot the green font. You don't actually believe they'd do this right?

We have no picks to attach to KATs cap killer deal, even salaries are tough to match.

Swap KATs at best neutral value contract for what positive value two way player?

Is that player a power forward? Then we have Mitch who plays ~50% of games at center. We have 2 mediocre wings in Hart and Bridges.

The best 3 players on BOS are

Tatum
Brown
KP

vs.

Brunson
OG
KAT

Tatum is better than anyone on our roster by a wide margin, I guess Brunson is our best player and Tatum is better. OG is comparable to Brown in impact but he's just worse and less healthy. KP and KAT are a wash, KP is a vastly superior defender KAT is a better offensive player, but for what you want in a spread offense with Brunson I'd rather have KP bombing it at 41.2%.

Jrue Holiday
Derrick White

vs. Bridges and Hart? C'mon man. It's not close. Bridges is homeless Derrick White for 4 more 1st rounders. Jrue is older, but on a completely different plane than HArt who can't hit water with a **** oar.

Bench is Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet and Horford vs. McRib, Precious?, T-Payne?, Shamet?

This is not remotely close. Our bench is one of the worst in the league.

don't disagree but boston isn't keeping that team together much longer. they're going to have to make tough decisions in the next year or 2 and horford has to retire/fall off soon right?

[nykballa2k4]

Yup. This!

We need to start Mitch at center and move Hart to the bench throughout the playoffs.

Please let this happen

I can't imagine Thibs of all coaches making a drastic change like that starting in the playoffs

I mean it would have been our opening day line up if not for injuries.

[nedleeds]

One coaching change and one move (like swapping out KAT for a 2-way players) could put us on the level of BOS/OKC/CLE... why not.

No it won't. You are just not in the real world on this.

What if Minny wants KAT back and offers us an extended Randle, Divo and a draft pick?

<- you forgot the green font. You don't actually believe they'd do this right?

We have no picks to attach to KATs cap killer deal, even salaries are tough to match.

Swap KATs at best neutral value contract for what positive value two way player?

Is that player a power forward? Then we have Mitch who plays ~50% of games at center. We have 2 mediocre wings in Hart and Bridges.

The best 3 players on BOS are

Tatum
Brown
KP

vs.

Brunson
OG
KAT

Tatum is better than anyone on our roster by a wide margin, I guess Brunson is our best player and Tatum is better. OG is comparable to Brown in impact but he's just worse and less healthy. KP and KAT are a wash, KP is a vastly superior defender KAT is a better offensive player, but for what you want in a spread offense with Brunson I'd rather have KP bombing it at 41.2%.

Jrue Holiday
Derrick White

vs. Bridges and Hart? C'mon man. It's not close. Bridges is homeless Derrick White for 4 more 1st rounders. Jrue is older, but on a completely different plane than HArt who can't hit water with a **** oar.

Bench is Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet and Horford vs. McRib, Precious?, T-Payne?, Shamet?

This is not remotely close. Our bench is one of the worst in the league.

don't disagree but boston isn't keeping that team together much longer. they're going to have to make tough decisions in the next year or 2 and horford has to retire/fall off soon right?

Oh for sure, but they already got 1 ring out of this core. If our best 3 players were 24, 25 and 26 I'd be way more positive. Cs just won a title with their best 3 players being 26,27,28. As for reloading, because they didn't trade 5 picks for derrick white they are only out 2 swaps. 28 and 29. They effectively have all their picks, we have a bag of dicks thanks to Peon Rose and CAA.

[nykballa2k4]

No it won't. You are just not in the real world on this. <- you forgot the green font. You don't actually believe they'd do this right?

We have no picks to attach to KATs cap killer deal, even salaries are tough to match.

Swap KATs at best neutral value contract for what positive value two way player?

Is that player a power forward? Then we have Mitch who plays ~50% of games at center. We have 2 mediocre wings in Hart and Bridges.

The best 3 players on BOS are

Tatum
Brown
KP

vs.

Brunson
OG
KAT

Tatum is better than anyone on our roster by a wide margin, I guess Brunson is our best player and Tatum is better. OG is comparable to Brown in impact but he's just worse and less healthy. KP and KAT are a wash, KP is a vastly superior defender KAT is a better offensive player, but for what you want in a spread offense with Brunson I'd rather have KP bombing it at 41.2%.

Jrue Holiday
Derrick White

vs. Bridges and Hart? C'mon man. It's not close. Bridges is homeless Derrick White for 4 more 1st rounders. Jrue is older, but on a completely different plane than HArt who can't hit water with a **** oar.

Bench is Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet and Horford vs. McRib, Precious?, T-Payne?, Shamet?

This is not remotely close. Our bench is one of the worst in the league.

don't disagree but boston isn't keeping that team together much longer. they're going to have to make tough decisions in the next year or 2 and horford has to retire/fall off soon right?

Oh for sure, but they already got 1 ring out of this core. If our best 3 players were 24, 25 and 26 I'd be way more positive. Cs just won a title with their best 3 players being 26,27,28. As for reloading, because they didn't trade 5 picks for derrick white they are only out 2 swaps. 28 and 29. They effectively have all their picks, we have a bag of dicks thanks to Peon Rose and CAA.

IMO a re-tool would not be too hard. Will Horford/Kornet continue to take home town discounts? Celtics probably have to trade one of KP/Jrue to really field a complete team.

The other scary thing/dark horse here is now that Denver is imploding, does jokic become a trade candidate? Does a package around KP, Brown, and Pritchard for jokic and unspecified wing help (let's say Andrew Wiggins or KCP finds his way into the deal) become plausible?

[kNicksGmen]

don't disagree but boston isn't keeping that team together much longer. they're going to have to make tough decisions in the next year or 2 and horford has to retire/fall off soon right?

Oh for sure, but they already got 1 ring out of this core. If our best 3 players were 24, 25 and 26 I'd be way more positive. Cs just won a title with their best 3 players being 26,27,28. As for reloading, because they didn't trade 5 picks for derrick white they are only out 2 swaps. 28 and 29. They effectively have all their picks, we have a bag of dicks thanks to Peon Rose and CAA.

IMO a re-tool would not be too hard. Will Horford/Kornet continue to take home town discounts? Celtics probably have to trade one of KP/Jrue to really field a complete team.

The other scary thing/dark horse here is now that Denver is imploding, does jokic become a trade candidate? Does a package around KP, Brown, and Pritchard for jokic and unspecified wing help (let's say Andrew Wiggins or KCP finds his way into the deal) become plausible?

they aren't going to be able to stay a 2nd apron team paying that crazy tax so they are going to lose players without adding equal value. only thing they could do is get cheaper replacements. so the Jokic thing makes no sense unless it's basically Jokic + Tatum and everyone else essentially gone.

they're going to be over 225.5 next year and that's with horford off the books.

they're either going to essentially have to let KP expire after next season or move guys like Hauser, prichard, white or holiday. Or keep them and move Brown. otherwise they're going to legit be paying like 300 mil in luxury tax.

i think horford is incredibly important for them. losing him alone is going to be massive. worst case scenario is he comes back on some cheap deal or they're able to get other good vets for super cheap.

[Adelheid]

boston wont be able to keep that core moving forward without being dinged with huge repeater tax

[Ravenxvirall]

boston wont be able to keep that core moving forward without being dinged with huge repeater tax

They will definitely have to move on from a good player I think, unless the new ownership is willing to just pay whatever the hell to win as many chips as possible for branding money.

[WaltFrazier]

Please let this happen

I can't imagine Thibs of all coaches making a drastic change like that starting in the playoffs

I mean it would have been our opening day line up if not for injuries.

Do we even know that for sure?

[Ravenxvirall]

I can't imagine Thibs of all coaches making a drastic change like that starting in the playoffs

I mean it would have been our opening day line up if not for injuries.

Do we even know that for sure?

Didn’t thibs say something along the lines of not having his starting center? I might be remembering wrong though, it happens.

[Ravenxvirall]

I mean it would have been our opening day line up if not for injuries.

Do we even know that for sure?

Didn’t thibs say something along the lines of not having his starting center? I might be remembering wrong though, it happens.

Might have got my conversations confused lmao

[nykballa2k4]

I can't imagine Thibs of all coaches making a drastic change like that starting in the playoffs

I mean it would have been our opening day line up if not for injuries.

Do we even know that for sure?

Well, I think that a lack of center options during the off-season played a role in us making the big move for KAT. When we got him, it was known that Mitch would still be out a while longer.

I believe that with how Thibs used KAT before (playing KAT with Dieng) and how KAT was basically being swapped for Randle, the double big was pretty obvious.

[nykballa2k4]

Do we even know that for sure?

Didn’t thibs say something along the lines of not having his starting center? I might be remembering wrong though, it happens.

Might have got my conversations confused lmao

https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/tom-thibodeau-hints-new-york-knicks-mitchell-robinson-plan

"I think you have to look at it and say, okay, Mitch was projected to be the starting center on the team," Thibodeau said on Tuesday in Tarrytown in video from SNY. "So we've gone 50-something games without our starting center and I think guys have done a really good job stepping in. Could we do better? I always believe we can do better. Mitch is an elite pick-and-roll defender, an elite rim protector, he's an elite offensive rebounder. Those are things that are critical."

[nykballa2k4]

Oh for sure, but they already got 1 ring out of this core. If our best 3 players were 24, 25 and 26 I'd be way more positive. Cs just won a title with their best 3 players being 26,27,28. As for reloading, because they didn't trade 5 picks for derrick white they are only out 2 swaps. 28 and 29. They effectively have all their picks, we have a bag of dicks thanks to Peon Rose and CAA.

IMO a re-tool would not be too hard. Will Horford/Kornet continue to take home town discounts? Celtics probably have to trade one of KP/Jrue to really field a complete team.

The other scary thing/dark horse here is now that Denver is imploding, does jokic become a trade candidate? Does a package around KP, Brown, and Pritchard for jokic and unspecified wing help (let's say Andrew Wiggins or KCP finds his way into the deal) become plausible?

they aren't going to be able to stay a 2nd apron team paying that crazy tax so they are going to lose players without adding equal value. only thing they could do is get cheaper replacements. so the Jokic thing makes no sense unless it's basically Jokic + Tatum and everyone else essentially gone.

they're going to be over 225.5 next year and that's with horford off the books.

they're either going to essentially have to let KP expire after next season or move guys like Hauser, prichard, white or holiday. Or keep them and move Brown. otherwise they're going to legit be paying like 300 mil in luxury tax.

i think horford is incredibly important for them. losing him alone is going to be massive. worst case scenario is he comes back on some cheap deal or they're able to get other good vets for super cheap.

I think there are a lot of options and contingencies.

KP is certainly a contender to be on the move because he will be an EC. If he want to take less, Boston may keep him. if he is looking for 40M+... probably will be moved.

KP and Brown (85M) for Jokic (55M) and 10M 3/D wing would be a win-win for Boston.

[kNicksGmen]

IMO a re-tool would not be too hard. Will Horford/Kornet continue to take home town discounts? Celtics probably have to trade one of KP/Jrue to really field a complete team.

The other scary thing/dark horse here is now that Denver is imploding, does jokic become a trade candidate? Does a package around KP, Brown, and Pritchard for jokic and unspecified wing help (let's say Andrew Wiggins or KCP finds his way into the deal) become plausible?

they aren't going to be able to stay a 2nd apron team paying that crazy tax so they are going to lose players without adding equal value. only thing they could do is get cheaper replacements. so the Jokic thing makes no sense unless it's basically Jokic + Tatum and everyone else essentially gone.

they're going to be over 225.5 next year and that's with horford off the books.

they're either going to essentially have to let KP expire after next season or move guys like Hauser, prichard, white or holiday. Or keep them and move Brown. otherwise they're going to legit be paying like 300 mil in luxury tax.

i think horford is incredibly important for them. losing him alone is going to be massive. worst case scenario is he comes back on some cheap deal or they're able to get other good vets for super cheap.

I think there are a lot of options and contingencies.

KP is certainly a contender to be on the move because he will be an EC. If he want to take less, Boston may keep him. if he is looking for 40M+... probably will be moved.

KP and Brown (85M) for Jokic (55M) and 10M 3/D wing would be a win-win for Boston.

i get what you're saying but without getting too deep into the weeds, i believe it's not possible to make that kind of trade when the team is over the 2nd apron. maybe if a 3rd team is involved it becomes possible but it gets complicated.

i don't see jokic being moved regardless though so the discussion is probably pointless.