PG: Knicks vs Indy: Game 1 ECF

[Jeff Van Gully]

This was easily the most infuriating part for me too. When Brunson/OG turned that ball over... I was stunned. All Brunson had to do was pull the ball out and dribble... until he was inevitably fouled. If he did that, the Knicks win. It was a complete mismanagement of time... quite possibly the most egregious example that I have ever witnessed. And, they were just coming out of a timeout. I do not understand, and I will never understand, why Brunson was rushing there. It's truly a heinous mistake. I'm still mad tbh.

even with the easiest pass there is an unnecessary risk. looking for a dramatic KO blow when the game already is in hand.

they seized every opportunity, no matter how unlikely. we gave them the opportunities. it’s really the worst part.

Someone on X put it perfectly. I would rather be up 5 with 10 seconds left than 7 with 30 seconds. There was simply no recognition/awareness as-to how important it was to drain the clock on EVERY possession. Quick shots and turnovers were worse than shot-clock violations. We made a historic comeback possible. If we did NOTHING but drain the clock, we would have survived.

EVERYONE dropped the ball but I blame Thibs and Brunson most. It was an embarrassing display of low IQ bball, at a terrible and consequential moment... but, then again, that's when these type of things tend to reveal theirselves.

guardly

[KnixinSix]

I would have MUCH preferred losing in a blowout than what occurred last night

Yes and no. Last night showed we can easily play with them when our coach puts the right combinations on the floor.

[Chanel Bomber]

Our centers along with Brunson are the driving forces behind the team's postseason (and regular season) success.

OG's impact has been marginal compared to these three players. All three provide outsize impact on either side of the ball - OG hasn't this season.

Net rating in the playoffs:

Robinson +8.4
With OG +3.1

KAT +0.1
With OG -4.1

Brunson +0.4
With OG -2.7

So the Mitch (the standout), KAT and Brunson lineups are all in the black for the postseason, but they all perform well below their average when sharing the floor with OG.

Yes, these are lineup stats, but there's a clear and undeniable pattern. At minimum, OG's not providing a significant impact. At worst, he's been the worst or second-worst player on our team in the postseason. I think there's merit to the latter statement.

Add in some weird attitude towards teammates, and I think the 212 million investment starts looking like a potential albatross. When you see Nembhard and Nesmith basically providing the same level of play for a fraction of the cost, I think trading OG in the summer starts to look like something that should be on the table.

[Guano]

Our centers along with Brunson are the driving forces behind the team's postseason (and regular season) success.

OG's impact has been marginal compared to these three players. All three provide outsize impact on either side of the ball - OG hasn't this season.

Net rating in the playoffs:

Robinson +8.4
With OG +3.1

KAT +0.1
With OG -4.1

Brunson +0.4
With OG -2.7

So the Mitch (the standout), KAT and Brunson lineups are all in the black for the postseason, but they all perform well below their average when sharing the floor with OG.

Yes, these are lineup stats, but there's a clear and undeniable pattern. At minimum, OG's not providing a significant impact. At worst, he's been the worst or second-worst player on our team in the postseason. I think there's merit to the latter statement.

Add in some weird attitude towards teammates, and I think the 212 million investment starts looking like a potential albatross. When you see Nembhard and Nesmith basically providing the same level of play for a fraction of the cost, I think trading OG in the summer starts to look like something that should be on the table.

I want to give you a pass cause you crafted this at 5am but something tells me thats when you're at your peak. This is some of your nastiest work, yet. Apparently nerds dont care about sample size and just cherry pick stats nowadays.

[Indomitable]

This is a collective loss, let's see how this team comes back in game 2 with some characters.

But at the moment home court advantage, momentum and morale have gone to our opponents

I need some time to calm down for this cardiac Knicks.

Indy is this team. I am a guest here therefore,I am trying to be respectful.

The Pacers are a machine and have done it to two other teams.

If it keeps happening to the teams they play. Maybe they are the reason.

[Stannis]

Bump

[Jeff Van Gully]

Bump

why?

[cgmw]

Bump

why?

Because the season would still be going if they had just called the obvious goaltend on Turner. Or if Thibs hadn’t burned his challenge. Or had Nesmith missed even one of those threes. Or Hali’s shot bounced 1/8 inch in any direction.

Whatever, this group wasn’t beating OKC. I won’t watch a minute of it and am honestly relieved to get my life back now.

See you in October, fam.

[matchman]

This is a collective loss, let's see how this team comes back in game 2 with some characters.

But at the moment home court advantage, momentum and morale have gone to our opponents

I need some time to calm down for this cardiac Knicks.

Indy is this team. I am a guest here therefore,I am trying to be respectful.

The Pacers are a machine and have done it to two other teams.

If it keeps happening to the teams they play. Maybe they are the reason.

Turn out the wound of game 1 was too deep to recover.

[matchman]

Bump

why?

Because the season would still be going if they had just called the obvious goaltend on Turner. Or if Thibs hadn’t burned his challenge. Or had Nesmith missed even one of those threes. Or Hali’s shot bounced 1/8 inch in any direction.

Whatever, this group wasn’t beating OKC. I won’t watch a minute of it and am honestly relieved to get my life back now.

See you in October, fam.

Did it hurt for you to fly all along to witness the team's elimination game?

[cgmw]

why?

Because the season would still be going if they had just called the obvious goaltend on Turner. Or if Thibs hadn’t burned his challenge. Or had Nesmith missed even one of those threes. Or Hali’s shot bounced 1/8 inch in any direction.

Whatever, this group wasn’t beating OKC. I won’t watch a minute of it and am honestly relieved to get my life back now.

See you in October, fam.

Did it hurt for you to fly all along to witness the team's elimination game?

Truth is I don’t live in nyc anymore. What hurt was when I traveled to Game 1 and they collapsed. As soon as that shot went down, I knew the series was over. I went to G6 and sat near the bench so I could have closure and cheer the Knicks as they exited. I was very loud and looked Jalen right in his eye as he left the court thanking him and saying we love him. No regrets whatsoever, totally awesome experience.

Game 1, however, was a gut punch like I’d never felt before as a fan—closest thing was Starks Game 6.

Big contrast to attending G4 of the Celtics series when I saw Tatum on the ground and a red carpet to the NBA Finals laid out before us. I’ll never forget that moment, my jaw was on the floor.

The season ended when the air got let out of MSG at the regulation buzzer of G1. That was the hard part. But all of it is a blessing and just awesome privilege to experience, live or on tv or at a watch party. It’s all just awesome to be human and care so much about a thing with all these other dumbass humans.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Bump

why?

Because the season would still be going if they had just called the obvious goaltend on Turner. Or if Thibs hadn’t burned his challenge. Or had Nesmith missed even one of those threes. Or Hali’s shot bounced 1/8 inch in any direction.

Whatever, this group wasn’t beating OKC. I won’t watch a minute of it and am honestly relieved to get my life back now.

See you in October, fam.

thank you, Stannis.

[Stannis]

why?

Because the season would still be going if they had just called the obvious goaltend on Turner. Or if Thibs hadn’t burned his challenge. Or had Nesmith missed even one of those threes. Or Hali’s shot bounced 1/8 inch in any direction.

Whatever, this group wasn’t beating OKC. I won’t watch a minute of it and am honestly relieved to get my life back now.

See you in October, fam.

thank you, Stannis.

Yeah, I bumped because I think it all came down to this game. Right in the beginning, at home. A huge gut punch. And I'm honestly surprised the team took it 6 games after that.

Every Knick needs to remember that game, including coaches. How do they come back from this? Can they? Or will it cause long-term damage?

I'm not going to blame the missed goal tend call. IMHO, this game is on Thibs. When you don't kill the game, you are just inviting **** to happen (e.g. all the stuff you listed).

Good/championship coaches don't lose that game.

Now we are talking about trading KAT. Now there's hit pieces on some of our players. All because of the Game 1 fumble.

I know the consensus here is "we were going to lose to OKC anyways", which I disagree with. That would have been cool with me. I'd never trade the 1999 EC Championship just to spare me the pain of losing to the Spurs in the NBA Finals. I was still very happy that the team made it that far. Just getting to the finals would have gave our guys so much confidence, and maybe gotten us a ring chaser or 2 in the offseason.

[sol537]

Because the season would still be going if they had just called the obvious goaltend on Turner. Or if Thibs hadn’t burned his challenge. Or had Nesmith missed even one of those threes. Or Hali’s shot bounced 1/8 inch in any direction.

Whatever, this group wasn’t beating OKC. I won’t watch a minute of it and am honestly relieved to get my life back now.

See you in October, fam.

thank you, Stannis.

Yeah, I bumped because I think it all came down to this game. Right in the beginning, at home. A huge gut punch. And I'm honestly surprised the team took it 6 games after that.

Every Knick needs to remember that game, including coaches. How do they come back from this? Can they? Or will it cause long-term damage?

I'm not going to blame the missed goal tend call. IMHO, this game is on Thibs. When you don't kill the game, you are just inviting **** to happen (e.g. all the stuff you listed).

Good/championship coaches don't lose that game.

Now we are talking about trading KAT. Now there's hit pieces on some of our players. All because of the Game 1 fumble.

I know the consensus here is "we were going to lose to OKC anyways", which I disagree with. That would have been cool with me. I'd never trade the 1999 EC Championship just to spare me the pain of losing to the Spurs in the NBA Finals. I was still very happy that the team made it that far. Just getting to the finals would have gave our guys so much confidence, and maybe gotten us a ring chaser or 2 in the offseason.

Good post. This loss may set up back in more ways than we can imagine.

[matchman]

Because the season would still be going if they had just called the obvious goaltend on Turner. Or if Thibs hadn’t burned his challenge. Or had Nesmith missed even one of those threes. Or Hali’s shot bounced 1/8 inch in any direction.

Whatever, this group wasn’t beating OKC. I won’t watch a minute of it and am honestly relieved to get my life back now.

See you in October, fam.

Did it hurt for you to fly all along to witness the team's elimination game?

Truth is I don’t live in nyc anymore. What hurt was when I traveled to Game 1 and they collapsed. As soon as that shot went down, I knew the series was over. I went to G6 and sat near the bench so I could have closure and cheer the Knicks as they exited. I was very loud and looked Jalen right in his eye as he left the court thanking him and saying we love him. No regrets whatsoever, totally awesome experience.

Game 1, however, was a gut punch like I’d never felt before as a fan—closest thing was Starks Game 6.

Big contrast to attending G4 of the Celtics series when I saw Tatum on the ground and a red carpet to the NBA Finals laid out before us. I’ll never forget that moment, my jaw was on the floor.

The season ended when the air got let out of MSG at the regulation buzzer of G1. That was the hard part. But all of it is a blessing and just awesome privilege to experience, live or on tv or at a watch party. It’s all just awesome to be human and care so much about a thing with all these other dumbass humans.

Yeah I can never share your pain and joy as a witness as I got zero live experience to watch the Knicks in person. Maybe one day I should accomplish this goal.

[Context]

Because the season would still be going if they had just called the obvious goaltend on Turner. Or if Thibs hadn’t burned his challenge. Or had Nesmith missed even one of those threes. Or Hali’s shot bounced 1/8 inch in any direction.

Whatever, this group wasn’t beating OKC. I won’t watch a minute of it and am honestly relieved to get my life back now.

See you in October, fam.

thank you, Stannis.

Yeah, I bumped because I think it all came down to this game. Right in the beginning, at home. A huge gut punch. And I'm honestly surprised the team took it 6 games after that.

Every Knick needs to remember that game, including coaches. How do they come back from this? Can they? Or will it cause long-term damage?

I'm not going to blame the missed goal tend call. IMHO, this game is on Thibs. When you don't kill the game, you are just inviting **** to happen (e.g. all the stuff you listed).

Good/championship coaches don't lose that game.

Now we are talking about trading KAT. Now there's hit pieces on some of our players. All because of the Game 1 fumble.

I know the consensus here is "we were going to lose to OKC anyways", which I disagree with. That would have been cool with me. I'd never trade the 1999 EC Championship just to spare me the pain of losing to the Spurs in the NBA Finals. I was still very happy that the team made it that far. Just getting to the finals would have gave our guys so much confidence, and maybe gotten us a ring chaser or 2 in the offseason.

Yeah Stannis...I agree with the spirit of this post.
I think one of the main issues that I have with Thibs --is, the fact that he gives players too much responsibility. That was a perfect situation where as soon as Nesmith hit 2 threes back to back- you should have a physical "call" or "hand symbol" that you direct to Brunson and/or the team to SLOW IT
DOWN; RUN THE CLOCK DOWN. At that moment as a player sometimes you need that and thats when you collect yourself and milk the clock. If you can take a time out as a coach - you do it.
If Thibs coaches at that point- we win the game. The next in line would be Brunson. He needs to work on have more awareness as a "point guard"
and "captain". I guess that game gave him a strip that he needed to be a better captain. We should never see that happen again.

[spree2kawhi]

thank you, Stannis.

Yeah, I bumped because I think it all came down to this game. Right in the beginning, at home. A huge gut punch. And I'm honestly surprised the team took it 6 games after that.

Every Knick needs to remember that game, including coaches. How do they come back from this? Can they? Or will it cause long-term damage?

I'm not going to blame the missed goal tend call. IMHO, this game is on Thibs. When you don't kill the game, you are just inviting **** to happen (e.g. all the stuff you listed).

Good/championship coaches don't lose that game.

Now we are talking about trading KAT. Now there's hit pieces on some of our players. All because of the Game 1 fumble.

I know the consensus here is "we were going to lose to OKC anyways", which I disagree with. That would have been cool with me. I'd never trade the 1999 EC Championship just to spare me the pain of losing to the Spurs in the NBA Finals. I was still very happy that the team made it that far. Just getting to the finals would have gave our guys so much confidence, and maybe gotten us a ring chaser or 2 in the offseason.

Good post. This loss may set up back in more ways than we can imagine.

We’ll be in the Finals next year.

[HopelessKnick]

Hey guys! My final post for this year as well, barring any major free agent acquisition (Giannis etc.).

I just canceled my league pass subscription as it looks as if Thibs is going to be back and I'm just not into watching more games of 90s NBA offense. The offseason will ultimately determine how you look at game 1 longterm. Think Dallas Mavericks: They were down and destroyed after the Doncic trade...but without it they are holding on to a playoff berth and Cooper Flagg isn't a Maverick. The lottery changed that entire outlook (although it was obviously sheer luck).

The Knicks lost to Indy in kind of heartbreaking fashion in game 1. I do not 100% subscribe to the fact that the game lost the series as I have seen multiple teams over the years bounce back from horrible losses in a playoff series. But those were great teams---this knick team was good but not great really. To me this loss in the ECF has really set a potential stage for Giannis coming here. Going to the finals would have made it more iffy because you would have that Durant-GSW effect. And making a major trade after making the finals is rare also. This has set the stage perfectly for the FO being angry and having enough motivation to make another big move. If we make a big trade or get Giannis----the game 1 loss was part of it as well. We make it to the finals...we 100% staying pat. We dislike Indy, Giannis after what transpired must be "disliking" them a lot too. Can't help but think Giannis would really like to come here--common mission and with him here we are overwhelming favorites to win the east at least.

I'm out, talk to you guys next year.