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2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

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2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1 » by robillionaire » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:07 pm

Continued
Knicks said to perhaps be interested in:

Lamelo Ball
Killian Hayes
Tyrese Haliburton
Cole Anthony
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#2 » by Naughtyfatboy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:23 pm

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ill save yall the suspense :lol:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#3 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:29 pm

moocow007 wrote:
RHODEY wrote:Yeah I know, this kid has an annoying voice....but hey its slow...



I agree with most everything this kid says.

He's right on with Haliburton. Trust me guys, Haliburton is NOT the type of player the Knicks need. His college performance is getting over inflated and he will NOT be able to get anywhere near what he's doing in college especially NOT on a team that has no system and mish-mosh of talent. Fans will use his college play, build him up to be something he's not and then he'll get absolutely crucified when, not surprisingly, he can't replicate that type of production in the NBA. He'll be the next Ntilikina in terms of creating a divide among the fanbase (one group that will hold fast he needs to be given a shot, the other, that he's crap...all the while he's producing very little relative to his draft position while he's on the floor).

LaMelo Ball IS the guy that the Knicks need the most out of the point guards. He is built for the NBA and his skill will absolutely make it easier for the main go forward guys (Barrett, Robinson, Knox, etc.) to get easier shots on offense. He'll even be able to make Randle much more effective and efficient. Yes absolutely more so than the way popular "we need a shooter" mantra. Barrett, Robinson and Knox need someone that can create shot opportunities for them cause they can't themselves. Just shooter isn't going to create easy shots for them since they will still have to try to create shots (the shooter only acts to force defenders from focusing on them, but the reality is that none of them are innate shot creators themselves so the problem is even before the shooter comes into play).

Kilian Hayes IS the other PG that should be the choice if avaialble and Ball is not available, regardless of if anyone lists Hayes in a mock. Why? Cause Hayes is like Ball. His best skills are the skills that create easy shot opportunities for everyone else. In a lot of ways he's like a scaled down version of Ball but without the potential drama.

Deni Avdija has a lot of talent but yes, it would not be advisable to take him if Ball or Hayes is available. But yes, if all the PG's are gone, then taking basically BPA and waiting for 2021 draft for a PG would make sense. The Knicks will suck again next season. It's what it is. You don't want to reach for a position.

And yes, they have no need for Jahmi'us Ramsey. They already have Barrett (who they still seem insistent to play at SG), Trier, Dotson AND (most likely) Reggie Bullock (for at least one more season).

Also, yeah, the same way they moved up to get Iggy cause they really liked him, if you really like someone say later on in the 1st and you think he can be gone a few picks before the Clippers, try to move up. Jalen Smith, for example, a guy that is slipping under the radar, honestly would be a great fit with the Knicks. Smith has shown vast improvements in his ability to shoot the ball from freshman to sophomore seasons (not just the 3 but his FT%) which tells me he can get even better (and has the makeup to improve). He's tall, quick, aggressive, athletic, rebounds and blocks shots real well. Moves well without the ball. If the plan is to eventually move on from Randle, Smith would be a great fit. You can even slide him over to C right away to play with Randle if the game calls forces the Knicks to try and spread the floor. So a trade up for a guy like Jalen Smith in the 20-25 range should be considered if they like Smith.

You can find "shooters" in free agency (see Reggie Bullock). You cannot find the type of guys that can create easy shot opportunities for his teammates like a Ball or Hayes can near as easy. You focus on shot creators. It's also easier to learn to shoot than to learn to create shots. So no, absolutely not, I would not hold Ball's lack of a 3 against him. Heck, you just need to look at his brother to see how not just a similar type PG an learn to shoot, but one that shares the same type of genes, mentality and style. Ball should absolutely be the 1st PG on the Knicks draft list. A 6'7" (potentially 6'8" when all's said and done) shotcreator that has the ball on a string and the game built for the bright lights is absolutely exactly what this team (of all teams) need especially if it's very likely that his shooting will improve (again see brother Lonzo).

And yep, like I said before, Cole Anthony has aspects of his game (toughness, leadership, fight, etc.) that are great. It's just the question about is he really more of a SG in a PG's body from my standpoint (and exceed what you expect a PG to be able to do for your team to make you better, instead of what a SG be able to do to do the same). If he was 2-3" taller he'd be a SG and probably then 1st overall pick cause his pure scoring skills may be better than Antman's. But his size forces him to be a PG which changes the whole value/usefulness perspective. Anthony is not a good fit with Barrett in the backcourt. Barret's game is not a spot up shooter game. That's what Cole Anthony would work well with, paired with a strong shooting SG on a team where he can just focus on attacking and scoring. Similar to what Derrick Rose had in his early days in Chicago and Westbrook had in OKC after KD left (and Cole Anthony is not near as talented as either MVP Rose or Westbrook). That's the type of team Cole Anthony needs. That is neither the Knicks now, nor what appears to be their team building vision going forward.


damn moo... get out of my head. Absolutely love Jalen Smith. I hope with no workouts he stays near the end of the first round but I'd definitely combine 27 and 38 to move up to get him. I'm pretty much with you on everything else, except I do think Cole and RJ will fit better than you think. His synergy stats say he's 77%ile on all jump shots and on catch and shoots. 89%ile coming off screens and 85%ile off the dribble jumper. At UNC, he was the only perimeter creator so I don't think there's a lot of tape of him off ball but with his jumper, I don't think it will be that much of an issue to play him off ball for RJ to run some PNR. He's just not someone I'm sure can be the primary ball handler like I am with LaMelo and Hayes. Coles vision is just bad and he misses simple reads all the time.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#4 » by KushComa » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:00 am

Is it crazy to have Cole Anthony graded as the best pg in the draft? He checks all the boxes of what you need from a modern PG:
1. Good 3 point shot
2. Great off the dribble pull up
3. Ability to breakdown defense and penetrate
4. Ability to draw fouls and finish through contact.

He is the mold of elite scoring PGs right now NBA and would fit perfectly next to RJ.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#5 » by blueNorange » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:02 am

obi toppin is more interesting than all the pg prospects ...
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#6 » by mpharris36 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:07 am

blueNorange wrote:obi toppin is more interesting than all the pg prospects ...


nah
BAF Spurs:

C - Mo Bamba/Justin Patton/J Green
PF - Michael Porter Jr/Johnathan Williams/Kostas Antetokounmpo
SF - Mikal Bridges/Thanasis Antetokounmpo
SG - Luke Kennard/Tyler Johnson/Theo Pinson
PG - Frank Ntilikina/Lonnie Walker/Brad Wannamaker
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#7 » by blueNorange » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:11 am

mpharris36 wrote:
blueNorange wrote:obi toppin is more interesting than all the pg prospects ...


nah

all the pg prospects are incredibly mediocre, like best case scenario they're just a placeholder until a team finds someone better.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#8 » by blueNorange » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:12 am

it's like drafting raymond felton.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#9 » by mpharris36 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:13 am

blueNorange wrote:it's like drafting raymond felton.


Obi is like drafting Drew Gooden
BAF Spurs:

C - Mo Bamba/Justin Patton/J Green
PF - Michael Porter Jr/Johnathan Williams/Kostas Antetokounmpo
SF - Mikal Bridges/Thanasis Antetokounmpo
SG - Luke Kennard/Tyler Johnson/Theo Pinson
PG - Frank Ntilikina/Lonnie Walker/Brad Wannamaker
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#10 » by blueNorange » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:14 am

the pg prospects so mediocre that nico mannion will most likely be the best of them all.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#11 » by blueNorange » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:15 am

mpharris36 wrote:
blueNorange wrote:it's like drafting raymond felton.


Obi is like drafting Drew Gooden

drew gooden was a good player, don't sully his name.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#12 » by mpharris36 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:19 am

blueNorange wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
blueNorange wrote:it's like drafting raymond felton.


Obi is like drafting Drew Gooden

drew gooden was a good player, don't sully his name.


Raymond Felton was better
BAF Spurs:

C - Mo Bamba/Justin Patton/J Green
PF - Michael Porter Jr/Johnathan Williams/Kostas Antetokounmpo
SF - Mikal Bridges/Thanasis Antetokounmpo
SG - Luke Kennard/Tyler Johnson/Theo Pinson
PG - Frank Ntilikina/Lonnie Walker/Brad Wannamaker
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#13 » by LibertyKnicks00 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:30 am

Frank Ntilikina
R.J. Barrett
Obi Toppin
Mitchell Robinson
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#14 » by blueNorange » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:42 am

LibertyKnicks00 wrote:Frank Ntilikina
R.J. Barrett
Obi Toppin
Mitchell Robinson

dump randle's contract for cp3's.

cp3 at age 50 is better than the pg prospects coming out.

robinson
toppin
barrett
frank
cp3
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#15 » by knickstape21 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:50 am

Have a feeling if we stay at 6 it’s going to be Cole Anthony. Not the biggest fan, but I’ll root for him. Seems like he’ll put in work.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#16 » by btuned » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:00 am

How does Cole Anthony compare to Donovan Mitchell coming out of College? Sounds like theyre of a similar mold (although Donovan has a wider wingspan.)

Edit: took a look at some per game and advanced stats - looks like Donovan was either better or at least similar across almost all stats. Remembering that even then people were not convinced about this ability to impact in the NBA and it took him a substantial leap/right system in the NBA for him to flourish, doesnt this make Cole a much more risky propsect?
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#17 » by Knicksfan1992 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:47 am

btuned wrote:How does Cole Anthony compare to Donovan Mitchell coming out of College? Sounds like theyre of a similar mold (although Donovan has a wider wingspan.)

Edit: took a look at some per game and advanced stats - looks like Donovan was either better or at least similar across almost all stats. Remembering that even then people were not convinced about this ability to impact in the NBA and it took him a substantial leap/right system in the NBA for him to flourish, doesnt this make Cole a much more risky propsect?



I think Donovan is a little more explosive whereas Cole's skill leveland passing ability is a little more refined. Donovan really fell into the perfect situation for himself. Utah desperately needed a guy who could score and do a little playmaking from the guard spot and it helped accelerate his growth IMO

I do think the college game and specifically the spacing of it did both of them a huge disservice. Similar to DOnovan I have a hunch that Cole will just look better in a more spread out offense.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#18 » by Knicksfan1992 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:52 am

LaMelo is in a tier all by himself for me. His game translates to the highest level better than anyone else's because his decision making under duress is head and shoulders above everyone else in this class and his frame gives him the potential to work on being better in other areas of the game. If you're in a position to take him you do it and worry about fit later... I've learned to always bet on high IQ players figuring it out. It's really the hardest skill to teach. It's why I'm coming around on Halliburton as well.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#19 » by btuned » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:08 am

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
btuned wrote:How does Cole Anthony compare to Donovan Mitchell coming out of College? Sounds like theyre of a similar mold (although Donovan has a wider wingspan.)

Edit: took a look at some per game and advanced stats - looks like Donovan was either better or at least similar across almost all stats. Remembering that even then people were not convinced about this ability to impact in the NBA and it took him a substantial leap/right system in the NBA for him to flourish, doesnt this make Cole a much more risky propsect?



I think Donovan is a little more explosive whereas Cole's skill leveland passing ability is a little more refined. Donovan really fell into the perfect situation for himself. Utah desperately needed a guy who could score and do a little playmaking from the guard spot and it helped accelerate his growth IMO

I do think the college game and specifically the spacing of it did both of them a huge disservice. Similar to DOnovan I have a hunch that Cole will just look better in a more spread out offense.


Interesting take - I do agree that Donovan landed in an almost perfect spot, similar to Oladipo.

Wonder if we can replicate that model:

Barrett = Ingles
Robinson = Gobert
Frank = More defensive / less playmaking Rubio
Randle = Randle...

Would mean Barrett and Cole steps up their playmaking abilities while Randle stops being a bull in a china shop.. Lots of Ifs.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#20 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:09 am

Tyrese Halliburton would appear to fit in seamlessly.





And then sign Christian Wood (and trade Randle)

Frank
Mitch
RJ
Dotson
Haliburton
Knox
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