[Camelo Thread] - Update: He's Pushing for NYK! Part 5

[ThePrez86]

Winning? I'm pretty sure the Knicks are currently doing that (and they seem to be building towards even more wins over the next few seasons). And how many times has Carmelo Anthony made it out of the first round in his 7 years in the league? Once.

Hmmm. So we are having enough wins? Great. No reason to add any more player.

You seem to assume that Carmelo Anthony automatically adds more wins. I'm trying to figure out how exactly he does it. Is it with All Star Defense? Is it with his great shotblocking? Perhaps it's with his well-respected leadership and knack for making those around him much better? I know, it must be all those clutch championship performances.

But for argument's sake, let's say that we've all determined that Melo is a great fit for this team - that he'll improve the defense and improve the offense within the flow of the game (without being a ballhog) and be a great character guy that will make other players better. How many more wins would he bring? Is the amount you have in your mind enough to warrant losing Chandler or Gallo or Fields to get him? Is there something so imperitive that he needs to be acquired now? Why not wait eight months?

The Knicks have waited ten years. You can't hold your load for another eight months?

[kane2021]

Now in this deal they got another mid/low level prospect. But only one pick. The 2nd pick was the right to have their pick back from a previous deal. I suppose you could argue the prospect level of these players but its kind of mute. Gomes was playing better. Green was high risk high reward from the moment he was drafted. Telfair still had some value. But none the less you can see the construction of the

I am confused. So if the deal did not happen Wolves would still have that pick? I suppose not. My understanding is that that pick turned out to be a lottery pick.

My memory is a bit foggy. From my understanding, the wolves and cetls made a deal for wally. And a pick was sent to boston. In the KG deal, the right to that pick was sent back to the wolves. Kind of like our situation with houston.

a 2009 first round draft pick (top three protected) and a return of Minnesota's conditional first round draft pick previously obtained in the Ricky Davis-Wally Szczerbiak trade. Minnesota also receives cash considerations in the deal.

[Pharmcat]

kane you have a good idea, i had mentioned it b4

model the deal like the gasol trade, its not paying too much or too little

m. gasol - gallo
td - crittenton (if want to keep TD out, then put in walker, basically need a lower valued prospect here)
picks- our pick and one from ar trade
kwame/mckie - curry -expirings

chandler has to stay due to his versatility

[ThePrez86]

Scoring?
Defense?
Shot-blocking?
Rebounding?

scoring
defense
rebounding


book closed.

Good call. The Knicks certainly are deficient in scoring. And we all know Carmelo Anthony is well known around the league for his defensive intensity.

I'll give you a little bit on the rebounding (but not much).

[ThePrez86]

I'm against trading for Melo now, but one HUGE upside is he brings serious relief to Amare, both long term and short term.

Long term, Carmelo allows Amare to rest his knees night in and night out. We need to preserve Amare!

Short term, Carmelo's presence allows Amare to be far more aggressive on the D side. We are no longer 5 fouls away from irrelevancy. Amare can pressure all he wants to now, he doesn't have to sacrifice layups to avoid foul trouble.

This is one of the better rationale's I've read so far. I'm still opposed to trading for him mid-season. But unlike most of the other posts I've read, this is at least a halfway decent argument.

[Capn'O]

nd how many times has Carmelo Anthony made it out of the first round in his 7 years in the league? Once.

who the **** did melo play along side with?

none of those teams made any sense. they were all poorly constructed.

You mean you have to worry about how a team is constructed? Because I keep hearing that all you need is 2 superstars like Melo and Iverson.

That was an ill paired matchup from the beginning. Many people knew it and I was actually surprised that it worked as well as it did. Stat and Melo is a much more complementary duo.

[ThePrez86]

nd how many times has Carmelo Anthony made it out of the first round in his 7 years in the league? Once.

who the **** did melo play along side with?

none of those teams made any sense. they were all poorly constructed.

You mean you have to worry about how a team is constructed? Because I keep hearing that all you need is 2 superstars like Melo and Iverson.

Zing!

[FieldsMedal]

Addressing "deficiencies" isn't as linear as the OP seems to be suggesting it is.

Yes, the Knicks are currently one of the best offensive teams in the league, but they can be better.

Mike D'Antoni is philosophically correctly. The object of basketball is to outscore your opponent.

Knicks are good offensively? Okay, I agree.

They can't get even better?

I disagree.

His rebounding IS superior to the current guys playing the 3 for the Knicks and one would think most observant Knicks fans would have seen the positive impact Landry Fields's "extra" rebounding from the 2 has had on this team.

And yes, 'Melo and Stat would start together, but effectively their second unit would improve because D'Antoni could manage their PT so that one of them is on the floor at all time, meaning the Knicks will have a elite scorer on the floor for 48 minutes.

AND I won't even go into what it meant to have a second legit star if one of your two has to miss some games due to injury.

Again, there seems to be a camp who think that because the Knicks are now tops in scoring and near the top in efficiency that they've reached their ceiling.

If they get BETTER offensively, this would have the effect of giving them a chance to outscore their opponents more so and more often.

Isn't that the whole point?

[Siem]

Winning? I'm pretty sure the Knicks are currently doing that (and they seem to be building towards even more wins over the next few seasons). And how many times has Carmelo Anthony made it out of the first round in his 7 years in the league? Once.

Hmmm. So we are having enough wins? Great. No reason to add any more player.

You seem to assume that Carmelo Anthony automatically adds more wins. I'm trying to figure out how exactly he does it. Is it with All Star Defense? Is it with his great shotblocking? Perhaps it's with his well-respected leadership and knack for making those around him much better? I know, it must be all those clutch championship performances.

But for argument's sake, let's say that we've all determined that Melo is a great fit for this team - that he'll improve the defense and improve the offense within the flow of the game (without being a ballhog) and be a great character guy that will make other players better. How many more wins would he bring? Is the amount you have in your mind enough to warrant losing Chandler or Gallo or Fields to get him? Is there something so imperitive that he needs to be acquired now? Why not wait eight months?

I see what your saying as far as waitng thats a Good idea as well. It's risky....But how many more wins can he bring. As far as reg.season, Idk maybe 4-8 more, thats a Guess.maybe more, I'm not sure....But i think in the playoffs is where it's a Big Difference. When your in a 7game series agaisnt the same team, and the game slows down and things tighten up.It's a Big Difference, Thats when having Amare and Carmelo on the same team really becomes a big advantage. During the Reg.Season ofcourse I'd take Melo over say Chandler and AR, but it may not be that significant...but in a the playoffs, having to killers on the court, who can perform under pressure when teams clamp down, and you need them to create on that possesion..Thats where I want Melo and Amare on my team.

The Knicks have waited ten years. You can't hold your load for another eight months?

[aggo]

this thread is so full of fail

you put two volume guys next to each other and what do you think happens when you play really really good defenses?

It's like saying since we give up 110ppg we suck on defense.

[seren]

Winning? I'm pretty sure the Knicks are currently doing that (and they seem to be building towards even more wins over the next few seasons). And how many times has Carmelo Anthony made it out of the first round in his 7 years in the league? Once.

Hmmm. So we are having enough wins? Great. No reason to add any more player.

You seem to assume that Carmelo Anthony automatically adds more wins. I'm trying to figure out how exactly he does it. Is it with All Star Defense? Is it with his great shotblocking? Perhaps it's with his well-respected leadership and knack for making those around him much better? I know, it must be all those clutch championship performances.

But for argument's sake, let's say that we've all determined that Melo is a great fit for this team - that he'll improve the defense and improve the offense within the flow of the game (without being a ballhog) and be a great character guy that will make other players better. How many more wins would he bring? Is the amount you have in your mind enough to warrant losing Chandler or Gallo or Fields to get him? Is there something so imperitive that he needs to be acquired now? Why not wait eight months?

The Knicks have waited ten years. You can't hold your load for another eight months?

You expect to win more games with a top five talent. He would bring many more games. It is enough to warrant to lose two of those three. Thanks for the questions. Next.

[kane2021]

Melo can say what ever he wants but you have to think about the business aspect for denver. AR/Walker/Curry. Why even bother? Just wait until the summer. They can still get AR from us because we are around 2 million short on a max deal anyway. They wold be better off keeping (and spiting) Melo and waiting in that case. They would be a better team this season. And get nearly the same package in the summer. And the satisfaction of not giving in to melo.

Yes we have leverage. Well really Melo has leverage. But this leverage is to keep us from getting ripped off by denver. They cant say well so and so's package is better. The leverage does not mean we are going to rip them off either. It just keeps a level negotiating field between 2 ball clubs. (or maybe other teams involved in the deal)

Agree that the deal will most likely include one of Gallo/Chandler, one of AR/TD/Mozgov, and Walker or Williams as throw-ins.

But as for Harrington, I feel if we're taking on his 5-year MLE deal, we should be able to pull out one of our assets from the deal, someone like AR.

I would definitely take back Harrington though. Chandler > Harrington, but by getting Harrington (and his deal is cheap), we can then afford to trade Chandler/AR or Chandler/TD for Mayo/Thabeet and balance out the rest of our roster. Or if not, Mayo, we can still look to S&T Chandler for a center.

I agree that if we are taking back a contract our offer must decrease. But as you brought up, the Mayo rumors. The Mayo rumors almost support a harrington return. Also as we talked about a few weeks ago, Harrington is the only guy that would have to wait. Unless its Moz going in a deal. Felton stays put and Mason is not the type of player that would hold up a deal like this.

Amare
Melo
Fields
Mayo
Felton

Harrington
TD

There is your 7 man. Not in that order but just a example. Pretty balanced. Maybe Thabeet or Moz also as the 8th man. Just seems to fit what Walsh has been doing and saying.

Again this is just speculation. I admit im not the best when it comes to predictions. But it just seems to fit.

[EricAnderson]

Melo is a legit go to scorer whos one of the most ungaurdable wing players in the league..

Youll see how much we need him when we play an elite team that plays D like the Celtics and how we have a hard time gettiung easy shots in crunch time

[FieldsMedal]

Is there something so imperitive that he needs to be acquired now? Why not wait eight months?

The Knicks have waited ten years. You can't hold your load for another eight months?

What does 8 months net you exactly?

You're not one of those misinformed people who think he can he had at no cost to the KNicks, are you?

[bklynstoops]

who the **** did melo play along side with?

none of those teams made any sense. they were all poorly constructed.

You mean you have to worry about how a team is constructed? Because I keep hearing that all you need is 2 superstars like Melo and Iverson.

wtf?

did you even read my post?

THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT MELO IS GOING TO PLAY NEXT to an efficient players like FELTON, AMARE.


NOT volume guys like iverson and billups.

the roll wasn't directed at you. It was actually directed at all the posts recently that basically repeat, "we give whatever we have to; we need a second superstar" and never elaborate on what it should cost us and what it leaves us left with. It's tiresome.

I'm not against getting Melo at a certain price, but if it leaves us devoid of good fill guys, and the assets to get a defensive big, it seems short-sighted.

[aggo]

Melo is a legit go to scorer whos one of the most ungaurdable wing players in the league..

Youll see how much we need him when we play an elite team that plays D like the Celtics and how we have a hard time gettiung easy shots in crunch time

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

ppl would rather have Chandler taking those shots in the 4th.

[CHARLYMURPHY]

Melo can say what ever he wants but you have to think about the business aspect for denver. AR/Walker/Curry. Why even bother? Just wait until the summer. They can still get AR from us because we are around 2 million short on a max deal anyway. They wold be better off keeping (and spiting) Melo and waiting in that case. They would be a better team this season. And get nearly the same package in the summer. And the satisfaction of not giving in to melo.

Yes we have leverage. Well really Melo has leverage. But this leverage is to keep us from getting ripped off by denver. They cant say well so and so's package is better. The leverage does not mean we are going to rip them off either. It just keeps a level negotiating field between 2 ball clubs. (or maybe other teams involved in the deal)

Agree that the deal will most likely include one of Gallo/Chandler, one of AR/TD/Mozgov, and Walker or Williams as throw-ins.

But as for Harrington, I feel if we're taking on his 5-year MLE deal, we should be able to pull out one of our assets from the deal, someone like AR.

I would definitely take back Harrington though. Chandler > Harrington, but by getting Harrington (and his deal is cheap), we can then afford to trade Chandler/AR or Chandler/TD for Mayo/Thabeet and balance out the rest of our roster. Or if not, Mayo, we can still look to S&T Chandler for a center.

I agree that if we are taking back a contract our offer must decrease. But as you brought up, the Mayo rumors. The Mayo rumors almost support a harrington return. Also as we talked about a few weeks ago, Harrington is the only guy that would have to wait. Unless its Moz going in a deal. Felton stays put and Mason is not the type of player that would hold up a deal like this.

Amare
Melo
Fields
Mayo
Felton

Harrington
TD

There is your 7 man. Not in that order but just a example. Pretty balanced. Maybe Thabeet also as the 8th man. Just seems to fit what Walsh has been doing and saying.

Again this is just speculation. I admit im not the best when it comes to predictions. But it just seems to fit.

That starting lineup with Mayo would be the most stacked in the NBA no doubt. but our bench would be terrible.

[ThePrez86]

I didnt put Melo and MJ in the same paragraph.lol. I will say Melo would bring another unstoppable player on the team. That would give us 2.some teams dont have 1. He's not the type who needs the ball to be effective thats another thing, he can score off of moving, just like Amare,thats what makes them so dangerous, they can score 1 on 1 or in the flow of the offense by moving around.

Sorry, I quoted the wrong paragraph. This is the paragraph, I meant to respond to...

What deficiencies would adding Michael Jordan in his prime to the Knicks address? Sometimes, it isn't a case of addressing a weakness, but adding another player makes you even stronger where you are. Want to know how this works? Say the Knicks happen to get Melo, and keep Chandler, before the trade deadline. At that point, they can end up resigning Chandler, which helps with depth.

- Rich

[aggo]

You mean you have to worry about how a team is constructed? Because I keep hearing that all you need is 2 superstars like Melo and Iverson.

wtf?

did you even read my post?

THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT MELO IS GOING TO PLAY NEXT to an efficient players like FELTON, AMARE.


NOT volume guys like iverson and billups.

the roll wasn't directed at you. It was actually directed at all the posts recently that basically repeat, "we give whatever we have to; we need a second superstar" and never elaborate on what it should cost us and what it leaves us left with. It's tiresome.

I'm not against getting Melo at a certain price, but if it leaves us devoid of good fill guys, and the assets to get a defensive big, it seems short-sighted.

fair point. and i agree with you generally speaking. but a defensive big liekly cant be had until the offseason..

[Citris]

Can we really trade Gallinari? He is so obviously a good piece to a championship team... unique skillset.

Can we resign Chandler next season if we do this Anthony trade now? I would think he would want to stay in NY. He is playing like a top player fantasy basketball wise - he gets very good stats.

Stoudemire / Turiaf / Mosgov
Anthony / Chandler /
Gallinari / Chandler
Fields / Douglas
Felton / Rautins (hopefully he can play)

I would give them Douglas as well, but hopefully not.

Anthony Randolph and Bill Walker are top athletes in the league, and they would be lucky to attain them. Maybe give them rights to Jerome Jordan, though it is nice having a center prospect overseas. (give them lottery protected future first or just second rounders too.)

If it is truly impossible to attain Chandler next season with Anthony's contract then I guess we can trade him, but his versatility and abilities would be great to make us a dominant team next season.