Thugger HBC wrote:J0rdan4life42o wrote:And I don't see how Kobe being on one lottery team is relevant here. Duncan has had help, but firstly, that help has obviously improved over their tenure with the Spurs, they simply weren't the same caliber players in Duncan's prime...and Bynum didn't develop into a good center overnight. Still don't see the point you were trying to make here. That because Bryant had a single lotto season as a Laker when he had absolutely nothing on that team, it takes away from the fact that he's nearly a flawless player?
You made it seem as if Kobe doesn't have flaws, and I say he does.
Most Laker fans will tell you when Kobe participates in facilitating instead of taking over the game, the team is better.
But he has help..without that help Kobe would have no more success than any other star that hasn't won.
My point is if you surround a star with nothing, he will have problems winning.
Amar'e is being criticized for his defense on the Knicks primarily because he doesn't have the guys like he had in PHX.
He's never been a defender, but that wasn't regarded as a big knock on him or the team.
They still had very ggod playoff success, defense of course would have put them over the top.
Okay, flawless wasn't the right word, probably shouldn't have used it. But you have players with minimal flaws like Duncan and Kobe, and then you have everyone else. Obviously you need help to win, I'm not arguing that.Whether it's another star level player like Kobe has had, or a well balanced team like Duncan had in his 2nd title run, you do need help. The difference is, it's much easier to surround Duncan or Kobe than it is to find the right compliments to Dirk, Rose and even Amar'e because they have more deficiencies in their games...
Odom was always a talented player who would never maximize his true potential. Gasol was a good big man who couldn't lead his team to a playoff victory in 3 trips to the playoffs...neither would have ever been considered the complimentary pieces to Bryant that they are today.
As for Duncan, you could have thrown any player in the NBA on that Spurs team and they would have been contenders...Turkoglu, a no name Stephen Jackson at the time, Speedy Claxton, Rasho, Devin Brown, Brent Barry, Nazr etc...they won because of Duncan...I know people like to point to Manu and Parker, but neither player really came into their own until their last championship, Parker maybe a year earlier. In his prime, you could have thrown Jamal Crawford and Tim Thomas next to Duncan and they'd be competing in the conference finals.
It's not the same with Dirk, Amare, Rose, Durant, LeBron etc. Look at the roster turnover Dallas has gone through the last decade trying to get the right pieces around Dirk to compete for a title. Look at LeBron, who obviously had the least help of all, but still look at the amount of player turnover that Cleveland went through to get the right supporting cast around him to go deep into the playoffs. Oklahoma City is getting to that point now too where they start figuring out the best way to assemble their team to cater towards Durant's game. Throw Rose in there too. It's not impossible to do it as Boston did it pretty easily with Pierce, but they did so with superior players than teams like Dallas and OKC are doing now. So I'm not saying you can't build a championship caliber team with Amar'e and Melo. Quite the contrary, I think you definitely can win a contender and potential title winner with these two...but it will take a lot more effort and maneuvering than it would with Duncan or Bryant.
