Jazz@Knicks gamethread 11/14 7:30PM

[NBA Fan 1234]

Inform you guys that Enes Kanter shots %35 in 3 point shots. It's equivalent of %100 in MSG:

He's 5/15 on the year from 3.

He's been balling lately, though. 15/7 in 25MPG in his last 5 games

[ag3]

Enes Kanter will shoot 70% from 3 and break the all time NBA record held by Kobe.

[bkknicks19]

No discussion on this forum "does anything" in that nothing actually impacts the day-to-day operations of the NBA. Thankfully it still exists to let us share opinions.

True, but you appear to be attempting to rally support behind something that has no chance of happening. The discussion is ok, but the receptiveness is corny. Just my opinion though. Watching games and participating in game threads, but rooting for losses is weird, but do your thing man.

I think that people who are pro-tank are not really cheering for losses. They may post on the internet "oh boy another miss, thats another ping pong ball!" but I am sure they are actually in person cheering for the win.

I can relate my experience: This season, I really don't care about wins/losses. We could go 2-80 and it would not affect me. Truth be told, I would be interested in the draft and about what could be done in the off-season. Remember the Miami Heat were basically created after an abysmal season. Ironically Toronto helped Miami steal Bosh because they sent down JO's expiring deal for Marions corpse. That roster somehow managed 48 wins (not much of a somehow, literally every other team was terrible)
From that roster they kept 5 guys: Wade, Haslem, Joel Anthony, James Jones, Carlos Arroyo.
It would be similar to use only having Melo, Cole, Hardaway, Early, Pablo.

Bottom line: losing today could help us a lot for the next 10 years. I won't be mad if the team tanks. I will support this regime since they have a plan.

This "abysmal season" the miami heat had was a 47-35 team that went to the playoffs and saw their share of losing streaks. Michael Beasly, their top pick prior to Lebron, was sent packing in the offseason once Lebron and Bosh arrived. I have no problem with the knicks putting together a season like that because that makes sense. Tanking the season makes no sense at all and I don't understand ppl who are looking for that to happen. The knicks should continue to try and win and build the team they want to have for the next 4-5 years. You don't do that by tanking. I'd rather just sit back and watch and see how this organization as a whole moves forward this season rather than hoping we throw the season away and pray for a top 3 pick.

[JBreezeNY]

Agree. But if they come back, get healthy and play around 60 games, the Knicks will be a decent team and the tank would be ruined.

Only reason we are 2-6 right now is because without calderon and Bargnani, we have no offense. Yes, the defense will hurt a little bit, but their offense would outweigh it on most nights.

A healthy and in shape starting lineup of:

Calderon
Shumpert
Carmelo
Bargnani
Dalembert

is not a tank team.

You don't think that's a tank team?

Nothing much left to say then.

No. That's a 35-40 win team.

Yeaaaaa we're done here

[bkknicks19]

Which is great for us... as you said we are pretty mediocre even with those 2 healthy.. being mediocre isn't somewhere you want to be with an older team like we have. Better to just suck it up and completely fail this season imo. Get a great pick hopefully and decide if you like a player in the draft who can be a long term building block or use that pick in a trade to aquire a 2nd really good player to go alongside melo

Agree. But if they come back, get healthy and play around 60 games, the Knicks will be a decent team and the tank would be ruined.

Only reason we are 2-6 right now is because without calderon and Bargnani, we have no offense. Yes, the defense will hurt a little bit, but their offense would outweigh it on most nights.

A healthy and in shape starting lineup of:

Calderon
Shumpert
Carmelo
Bargnani
Dalembert

is not a tank team.

You don't think that's a tank team?

Nothing much left to say then.

But it's not a tank team. No one is saying that's a championship team or anything crazy but it's not the other extreme either. The miami heat team pre-lebron started MARIO CHALMERS, Wade, QUENTIN RICHARDSON, 2nd year Mike Beasley and JERMAINE O NEAL. Most here would call that a tank team as well and that team went 47-35 and a 1st round exit. Still managed to build a championship team following that. Before anyone says "well lebron, wade and bosh planned it", please remember that the heat had to trade beasley (who was the number 2 pick in the 08 draft) to create the space to re sign wade and sign bosh and lebron. They didn't need to tank in order to build the championship team, they needed smart management, a winning culture and some luck.

All this to say the knicks, despite not winning early in the season, still are on a good path to me, until proven otherwise. If Calderon and Bargs come back and we still can't manage to play respectable ball, Phil will likely make trades. This is not a tank team, nor is this a season to tank. This is a season to do the best we possibly can, and show that we are a smart organization from top to bottom.

[god shammgod]

being injured has helped the perception of bargs tremendously. he's gone from a problem to a solution. that's how bad we are.

[bkknicks19]

People need to stop acting like there are only two types of teams, Championship teams and absolute trash, not worth a damn, why bother playing the game teams aka tank teams. You gotta play the season out. Every year a team has to be eliminated in the 1st round and there is no telling who that team will be so you play the games. This Knicks team is most likely a middle of the pack team 40-47 wins at best and there is nothing wrong with that. If you want to establish a way to win, a culture, you need to play the season and actually establish it. You can't just throw it out cuz you're not winning a chip or you lose the a bunch of games early. Too much crazy talk here sometimes but then again, it is the knicks board so...

[JBreezeNY]

Agree. But if they come back, get healthy and play around 60 games, the Knicks will be a decent team and the tank would be ruined.

Only reason we are 2-6 right now is because without calderon and Bargnani, we have no offense. Yes, the defense will hurt a little bit, but their offense would outweigh it on most nights.

A healthy and in shape starting lineup of:

Calderon
Shumpert
Carmelo
Bargnani
Dalembert

is not a tank team.

You don't think that's a tank team?

Nothing much left to say then.

But it's not a tank team. No one is saying that's a championship team or anything crazy but it's not the other extreme either. The miami heat team pre-lebron started MARIO CHALMERS, Wade, QUENTIN RICHARDSON, 2nd year Mike Beasley and JERMAINE O NEAL. Most here would call that a tank team as well and that team went 47-35 and a 1st round exit. Still managed to build a championship team following that. Before anyone says "well lebron, wade and bosh planned it", please remember that the heat had to trade beasley (who was the number 2 pick in the 08 draft) to create the space to re sign wade and sign bosh and lebron. They didn't need to tank in order to build the championship team, they needed smart management, a winning culture and some luck.

All this to say the knicks, despite not winning early in the season, still are on a good path to me, until proven otherwise. If Calderon and Bargs come back and we still can't manage to play respectable ball, Phil will likely make trades. This is not a tank team, nor is this a season to tank. This is a season to do the best we possibly can, and show that we are a smart organization from top to bottom.

Did you really compare a time period when the East was flat out terrible & the Heat actually having talent compared to this garbage team? Dalembert is a bench warmer, Calderon is Billups washed up status, Shump is a glorified role player, Bargnani is a 6th man with sh*tty defense & a inconsistent offensive game to boot.

Don't ever compare that Miami team to us. Jermaine O'Neal's had more defense in his pinky than Dalembert, Acy & Bargnani combined.

For fu*ks sakes you're actually anticipating Bargs, he's fu*king terrible.

I swear everytime I see someone be super optimistic about this team I wanna baptize them in holy water. Y'all need to see the light.

[ozwizard8]

Enes Kanter will shoot 70% from 3 and break the all time NBA record held by Kobe.

if there is a team to break record its knicks.

i understand melo's offensive slump. its mainly triangles fault. this squad and melo isnt fit in triangle.
but what about defense? we consider melo to be top 3 SF but he gots outscored or let his man 20+ points too much.

by the way these days are good ones.
after bulls-cavs we got 10 easy games. we should get at least 7-3 from these ones. but so far we got 6 consecutive losses.
if these losing continue; our defense would get worser. players like dalembert/acy/jr would start to play like crap because they're inconsistent if you dont win.

if these losing habit continue we'll beat in first half against WESTERN PLAYOFF RACE TEAMS...
grizzlies/rockets/warriors even pelicans and so many other west teams can finish the game at first half agains us.

#trianglesucks #triangledoesntfit #playlikecarlisle'steam

[ozwizard8]

being injured has helped the perception of bargs tremendously. he's gone from a problem to a solution. that's how bad we are.

tri-angle bad..

using larkin in fish's role.(larkin cant defend at all+his shooting isnt reliable, not respected)
using shump in kobe's role.(at least he relieved.)
using melo in artest's role.
using dalembert in gasol's role.
using q.acy in lamar odom's role.
we dont have anyone to use at shaq/bynum role and thats the problem. even we had player like al jefferson it would be enough to be .500 team.

anyway after bargs return, at least he would play better than dalembert in gasol's role.
also calderon is better than larkin.

[bkknicks19]

You don't think that's a tank team?

Nothing much left to say then.

But it's not a tank team. No one is saying that's a championship team or anything crazy but it's not the other extreme either. The miami heat team pre-lebron started MARIO CHALMERS, Wade, QUENTIN RICHARDSON, 2nd year Mike Beasley and JERMAINE O NEAL. Most here would call that a tank team as well and that team went 47-35 and a 1st round exit. Still managed to build a championship team following that. Before anyone says "well lebron, wade and bosh planned it", please remember that the heat had to trade beasley (who was the number 2 pick in the 08 draft) to create the space to re sign wade and sign bosh and lebron. They didn't need to tank in order to build the championship team, they needed smart management, a winning culture and some luck.

All this to say the knicks, despite not winning early in the season, still are on a good path to me, until proven otherwise. If Calderon and Bargs come back and we still can't manage to play respectable ball, Phil will likely make trades. This is not a tank team, nor is this a season to tank. This is a season to do the best we possibly can, and show that we are a smart organization from top to bottom.

Did you really compare a time period when the East was flat out terrible & the Heat actually having talent compared to this garbage team? Dalembert is a bench warmer, Calderon is Billups washed up status, Shump is a glorified role player, Bargnani is a 6th man with sh*tty defense & a inconsistent offensive game to boot.

Don't ever compare that Miami team to us. Jermaine O'Neal's had more defense in his pinky than Dalembert, Acy & Bargnani combined.

For fu*ks sakes you're actually anticipating Bargs, he's fu*king terrible.

I swear everytime I see someone be super optimistic about this team I wanna baptize them in holy water. Y'all need to see the light.

That miami team had more talent than this?? Do you remember quentin richardson? Carlos Arroyo? Rafer Alston?Mario Chalmers was a nobody. Jermaine O'neil was still washed up then, he wasnt a major factor on that team. Michael Beasly was a headcase, inconsistent scorer (look where he is now). THEY WERE A FIRST ROUND EXIT much the way everybody keeps saying we are now and were last season. Also, the East is STILL flat out terrible. No one argues that (except maybe you). I'm comparing them because the situations are actually very similar and if you stopped being so adamant that this team is sooooooo bad and not worth a damn, you might see that too. I've said it before, i don't expect this team to do anythign special, i think they are a first round exit at best. I just don't see anything wrong with that. It's better that they establish something now to have a stronger case for FA's then to tank.

[moocow007]

being injured has helped the perception of bargs tremendously. he's gone from a problem to a solution. that's how bad we are.

Godnani will save us.

[nykballa2k4]

True, but you appear to be attempting to rally support behind something that has no chance of happening. The discussion is ok, but the receptiveness is corny. Just my opinion though. Watching games and participating in game threads, but rooting for losses is weird, but do your thing man.

I think that people who are pro-tank are not really cheering for losses. They may post on the internet "oh boy another miss, thats another ping pong ball!" but I am sure they are actually in person cheering for the win.

I can relate my experience: This season, I really don't care about wins/losses. We could go 2-80 and it would not affect me. Truth be told, I would be interested in the draft and about what could be done in the off-season. Remember the Miami Heat were basically created after an abysmal season. Ironically Toronto helped Miami steal Bosh because they sent down JO's expiring deal for Marions corpse. That roster somehow managed 48 wins (not much of a somehow, literally every other team was terrible)
From that roster they kept 5 guys: Wade, Haslem, Joel Anthony, James Jones, Carlos Arroyo.
It would be similar to use only having Melo, Cole, Hardaway, Early, Pablo.

Bottom line: losing today could help us a lot for the next 10 years. I won't be mad if the team tanks. I will support this regime since they have a plan.

This "abysmal season" the miami heat had was a 47-35 team that went to the playoffs and saw their share of losing streaks. Michael Beasly, their top pick prior to Lebron, was sent packing in the offseason once Lebron and Bosh arrived. I have no problem with the knicks putting together a season like that because that makes sense. Tanking the season makes no sense at all and I don't understand ppl who are looking for that to happen. The knicks should continue to try and win and build the team they want to have for the next 4-5 years. You don't do that by tanking. I'd rather just sit back and watch and see how this organization as a whole moves forward this season rather than hoping we throw the season away and pray for a top 3 pick.

I thought they had 48 wins...

It would be nice, but the point is it doesn't matter. The Big Three joined to be with each other, not to join up with Jermaine Oneil and Rafer Alston,

[K_ick_God]

Tank game.

[nyjetsknicks420]

Do people really think that having Bargs back is somehow going to make this team a lot better

The guy is a bum has always been a bum will always be a bum

I do agree Calderon will help

[BKAY]

SOTN?

[GYK]

second year Beasley wasn't supposed to be who he is now. He was the rival of Rose and Blake.

[JBreezeNY]

But it's not a tank team. No one is saying that's a championship team or anything crazy but it's not the other extreme either. The miami heat team pre-lebron started MARIO CHALMERS, Wade, QUENTIN RICHARDSON, 2nd year Mike Beasley and JERMAINE O NEAL. Most here would call that a tank team as well and that team went 47-35 and a 1st round exit. Still managed to build a championship team following that. Before anyone says "well lebron, wade and bosh planned it", please remember that the heat had to trade beasley (who was the number 2 pick in the 08 draft) to create the space to re sign wade and sign bosh and lebron. They didn't need to tank in order to build the championship team, they needed smart management, a winning culture and some luck.

All this to say the knicks, despite not winning early in the season, still are on a good path to me, until proven otherwise. If Calderon and Bargs come back and we still can't manage to play respectable ball, Phil will likely make trades. This is not a tank team, nor is this a season to tank. This is a season to do the best we possibly can, and show that we are a smart organization from top to bottom.

Did you really compare a time period when the East was flat out terrible & the Heat actually having talent compared to this garbage team? Dalembert is a bench warmer, Calderon is Billups washed up status, Shump is a glorified role player, Bargnani is a 6th man with sh*tty defense & a inconsistent offensive game to boot.

Don't ever compare that Miami team to us. Jermaine O'Neal's had more defense in his pinky than Dalembert, Acy & Bargnani combined.

For fu*ks sakes you're actually anticipating Bargs, he's fu*king terrible.

I swear everytime I see someone be super optimistic about this team I wanna baptize them in holy water. Y'all need to see the light.

That miami team had more talent than this?? Do you remember quentin richardson? Carlos Arroyo? Rafer Alston?Mario Chalmers was a nobody. Jermaine O'neil was still washed up then, he wasnt a major factor on that team. Michael Beasly was a headcase, inconsistent scorer (look where he is now). THEY WERE A FIRST ROUND EXIT much the way everybody keeps saying we are now and were last season. Also, the East is STILL flat out terrible. No one argues that (except maybe you). I'm comparing them because the situations are actually very similar and if you stopped being so adamant that this team is sooooooo bad and not worth a damn, you might see that too. I've said it before, i don't expect this team to do anythign special, i think they are a first round exit at best. I just don't see anything wrong with that. It's better that they establish something now to have a stronger case for FA's then to tank.

Quentin was a role player that did his job, Arroyo role player that did his job, Alston role player that suck to the bench, Chalmers role player 2nd year out of College & that's a lie about O'Neal seeing as he started more than 70% of their games, put up a career high in FG% and put up 13 & 7.

It's like you keep looking over the fact that their team had their players fit their roles, you're not getting it. Everybody fit their position even "washed up Jermaine O'Neal". You bringing up Beasley is laughable seeing how he was projected compared to the Heat trying to get rid of everyone for cap space.

The situations are nothing close to similar because their players played defense, Alston, Chalmers, Wade, O'Neal all played defense.

Our only good defender of the year has been Shump, that's pathetic.

And if you think an Eastern Conference is still terrible where the Raptors & the Wizards are among the best teams then there's nothing to talk about. This team is not a first round exit, this team isn't even contending for the playoffs, the makeup of this team does not fit the system it is trying to produce, you understand what that means? It means if you have players that can't run a specific system offensively or defensively & you're trying to win YOU. WILL. LOSE. MANY. GAMES.

[Besart19]

SOTN?

THJ with 28pts

[Capn'O]

being injured has helped the perception of bargs tremendously. he's gone from a problem to a solution. that's how bad we are.

This is what I was talking about the other day. Talking about team defense improving and stuff. Feast or famine I guess, and the grass is always greener.