OT. The Donald Trump (and Politics) Momentum Thread

[Riot Randolph]

Trump is obviously trolling the bigot vote. His actual platform is among the most moderate on a number of issues within the party. His rhetoric, however, is extremely dangerous and has already incited violence. He welcomes and encourages violence towards any opposition - which is terrifying. Where he actually stands is anyone's guess but his impact is already set in motion.

That said, if the American "Left" is still assuming that's the only thing driving his campaign, it's gonna have a huge wakeup call. His appeals away from social/religious issues and towards economic ones is another and it's already lopping voters off the Dem base that have previously been taken for granted.


Sanders has the better chance of maintaining and even growing the party's base back towards working class populism with his consistent appeals to trade and finance issues. And, in clear opposition to Trump, his social rhetoric is one of inclusion. He's a much stronger candidate against Trump and likely prevails regardless. Once you bypass the superdelegate count - the Dem race is still very much in play, with a potential strong run coming in northern and western states.

What's beyond clear from this election is that the US needs a proper labor party. Neither party even bothers with working class economic issues anymore and it's pathetic.

Sanders isn't really in play. He's fallen behind pretty big and he'll need to beat Hillary bad going forward (especially in CA) if he wants this. With him polling as barely ahead of Hillary at best he's not getting this. Plus his main voter base doesn't vote and Hillary has a few southern states left to destroy him in. She's outperforming what she needs to win by 20%.

I disagree. IMO, there's one more shot. Again - remove the superdelegates from the conversation.

The March 15 primary is huge. Ohio, Illinois, and Florida are make or break states for his campaign. He's gotta win 2 and stay strong in the other.

most recent polls have him winning illinois

[Capn'O]

And all the mud thrown at him just makes him more popular. Maybe the anti-Trump camp should get off their high horse and stop enabling him.

I don't disagree with this. His opposition is attacking what, to many of his supporters, is the side dish instead of the main course.

But a Trump-Sanders battle would actually be worth following seeing as they don't have anyone to answer to but the voters. I never understood what the US voting system had to do with democracy anyways. The candidates campaigns are being financed by corporations with outrageous amounts of money and only two options have an actual chance of being elected. Where does the voter have a say in this exactly?

And I definitely agree with this. It's a racket. The only place is in the primaries and the majority of both bases don't vote there.

[13ringsruling]

https://garyjohnson2016.com/

the only sensible vote. the two party paradigm needs to die.

[E-Balla]

Trump is obviously trolling the bigot vote. His actual platform is among the most moderate on a number of issues within the party. His rhetoric, however, is extremely dangerous and has already incited violence. He welcomes and encourages violence towards any opposition - which is terrifying. Where he actually stands is anyone's guess but his impact is already set in motion.

That said, if the American "Left" is still assuming that's the only thing driving his campaign, it's gonna have a huge wakeup call. His appeals away from social/religious issues and towards economic ones is another and it's already lopping voters off the Dem base that have previously been taken for granted.


Sanders has the better chance of maintaining and even growing the party's base back towards working class populism with his consistent appeals to trade and finance issues. And, in clear opposition to Trump, his social rhetoric is one of inclusion. He's a much stronger candidate against Trump and likely prevails regardless. Once you bypass the superdelegate count - the Dem race is still very much in play, with a potential strong run coming in northern and western states.

What's beyond clear from this election is that the US needs a proper labor party. Neither party even bothers with working class economic issues anymore and it's pathetic.

Sanders isn't really in play. He's fallen behind pretty big and he'll need to beat Hillary bad going forward (especially in CA) if he wants this. With him polling as barely ahead of Hillary at best he's not getting this. Plus his main voter base doesn't vote and Hillary has a few southern states left to destroy him in. She's outperforming what she needs to win by 20%.

I disagree. IMO, there's one more shot. Again - remove the superdelegates from the conversation.

The March 15 primary is huge. Ohio, Illinois, and Florida are make or break states for his campaign. He's gotta win 2 and stay strong in the other.

I mean mathematically he's not out but listen to this post. You say he needs those 3 states but Hillary is polling at 56% in Ohio to Sanders' 36% which is a large margin for Hillary, Illinois where Hillary is polling at 63% to Sanders' 25%, and Florida where Hillary is polling at 63% to Sanders' 28%. Bernie already had a miracle happen in Michigan (which was probably the biggest upset in primary history) but this would be asking for that to happen 3 more times for Bernie to even sniff Hillary.

most recent polls have him winning illinois

They don't. One scientific poll has him ahead +2 but all other polls have Hillary by a distance and you can see what the average poll says above.

538 has Hillary's chances at at least 98% in all of these states.

[spree8]

Trump is an interesting character. Like a few have mentioned, I'd expect him to tone it down if he made it to the White House. We actually get to see that side of him quite often. The guy is taking full advantage of the anger felt by many in this country though. Is he racist? Nah, I think he's more of a nationalist, but it does come across as racist to many (which is understandable imo.)

In terms of policies, the guy has a long history of being moderate, and even a bit liberal. He's lying when he says he's a conservative...even the people on the right call bs on that.

His business acumen is questionable, and impressive at the same time. He's made a lot of bad decisions, and a lot of good ones. I guess that's the way it goes in that world sometimes, but to trust him to manage this country's finances? It's tough...it could be high risk/high reward.

He has a decent plan for healthcare with the savings account...I'd like to hear a bit more about it though. We know where he stands on immigration, and although his method likely won't work (deporting people and bringing some back) many people are on board with it. If he sticks to that, it will get ugly. I'd be in favor of a wall though...not sure how effective it would even be, but if he could get Mexico to pay for it (highly doubt it) then why not.

Foreign policy wise, he's shown to be in agreement with the left quite a bit. He's mentioned that he's fine with letting Russia take out Isis (which they might not even be doing, since they might just be taking out Syrians who oppose Assad) and that middle eastern countries should step up and defend their region.

His tax plan is pretty fair too...seeing as how he believes those with more money should pay more. Add to that the plan to get money out of politics, and he doesn't really sound like a conservative republican to me.

Would I vote for him though? No. Would I be scared if he became president? Kinda. I would take him over Cruz however.

Btw, Bernie is not a socialist. He has some socialist views, like believing everyone should have free healthcare, and everyone who works 40 or more hours per week should not be living in poverty, and be earning a livable wage.

And that corporations, banks, and the top 1% who cheat this country out of hundreds of billions of dollars in taxes every year, and have needed to be bailed out by us tax payers, should now pay up with a high tax %. ..the right wing has done an incredible job of making average conservative voters believe that they're a part of this group who will be in that 80-90% tax bracket lol.

He also thinks 2yr colleges should be free and universities should be affordable since student loans have been crippling graduates who can't even find jobs.

Those things can be paid for with higher taxes on wallstreet, corporations, and the top 1%. I'd pay more in taxes myself to allow that.

Problem is the balance. You tax corporations, and they move their businesses out of the country, lay people off, and employ non-Americans. You raise the minimum wage and employers have to lay off some workers. On the other hand though, trickle-down economics doesn't always work either. The whole socioeconomic system is screwed.

[Johnny Hoops]

My position on Trump is......

If he's not a threat for the presidency......why are the liberals and democrats along with the establishment spending so much time and energy to try to condemn him. It's actually very funny -- I find it extremely refreshing that he doesn't give a **** if you don't like what he says (so damn refreshing).

Little Marco, Liar Ted, Bernie the Communist and soon to be indicted Hill/Bill.

Liberal media has proven they are absolutely corrupt in coverage of this campaign -- I've seen such a farce in the coverage given to Trump vs virtually every other candidate.

They are scared **** of this guy because he doesn't need anything from anybody -- he just needs votes.

[Johnny Hoops]

Makes you sad when you realize large groups of people actually support this guy. We still have a long way to go, aren't we. Still not as bad as Rick Perry in 2012 IMO tho.

Wonder if "The Donald" will be getting hummers from interns in the Oval Office or playing around with cigars.

Hillary is like old dirty, dried out house mop -- **** even +70'year old Bernie looks like a teenager compared to that battle-axe.

Problem with Bernie is that he'll take my fed taxes from 28% to +50% --- can't have that Bernie.

[PeteW]

I love me some Trump but I will say this, all hell might break loose if he becomes president.

Apparently an ISIS supporter gave Trump a scare yesterday

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNelSuoHzlI[/youtube]

[thebuzzardman]

Trump is obviously trolling the bigot vote. His actual platform is among the most moderate on a number of issues within the party. His rhetoric, however, is extremely dangerous and has already incited violence. He welcomes and encourages violence towards any opposition - which is terrifying. Where he actually stands is anyone's guess but his impact is already set in motion.

That said, if the American "Left" is still assuming that's the only thing driving his campaign, it's gonna have a huge wakeup call. His appeals away from social/religious issues and towards economic ones is another and it's already lopping voters off the Dem base that have previously been taken for granted.


Sanders has the better chance of maintaining and even growing the party's base back towards working class populism with his consistent appeals to trade and finance issues. And, in clear opposition to Trump, his social rhetoric is one of inclusion. He's a much stronger candidate against Trump and likely prevails regardless. Once you bypass the superdelegate count - the Dem race is still very much in play, with a potential strong run coming in northern and western states.

What's beyond clear from this election is that the US needs a proper labor party. Neither party even bothers with working class economic issues anymore and it's pathetic.

Funny you say that, looking at it from afar with no horse in play, the anti-Trump campaign all over the world from reactionary social justice warriors and PC crowd has been a lot more violent than anything Trump has said or done. And all the mud thrown at him just makes him more popular. Maybe the anti-Trump camp should get off their high horse and stop enabling him.

But a Trump-Sanders battle would actually be worth following seeing as they don't have anyone to answer to but the voters. I never understood what the US voting system had to do with democracy anyways. The candidates campaigns are being financed by corporations with outrageous amounts of money and only two options have an actual chance of being elected. Where does the voter have a say in this exactly?

The bolded part was not true, once upon a time. Sure the rich had their undue influence, like every country in the world, but every 10 years you go back in the USA, it was better in regards to this

[UcanUwill]

My position on Trump is......

If he's not a threat for the presidency......why are the liberals and democrats along with the establishment spending so much time and energy to try to condemn him.

He is a threat to presidency, thats why people are talking about him... World is getting seriously worried, where guy like Perry crashed and burned, Trump actually got a huge following it seems. He is using his xenophobia and Islamophobia cards like a pro.

I still have faith in American people tho, I still doubt he wins, I hope at least.

[DeanTheDream]

And all the mud thrown at him just makes him more popular. Maybe the anti-Trump camp should get off their high horse and stop enabling him.

I don't disagree with this. His opposition is attacking what, to many of his supporters, is the side dish instead of the main course.

[quote="Rasho Brezec"]

The far left in this country is about as vile as it gets with their rhetoric and the media simply lets it go.

[nykballa2k4]

Google the word 'nationalism'

Different than racism.

Ignorance is accepting and trusting in the leadership we've had for many years now. Before Obama and before Bush. Before both Bush's. Ignorance is firmly believing Hilary Clinton is going to help right the ship. Ignorance is believing that socialism is the answer. There are serious, SERIOUS issues at play here, that most Americans are still completely unaware of. Trump may not be an angel, but he is by far the most believable candidate I've ever seen, and at least on the surface, he represents a possible answer to some of the atrocities committed by "the establishment" (I love how that's just a media buzzword now)

Trump is funding his own campaign, speaking out against corporations, special interests, the lying media and lying politicians... and both sides are scared of him and are trying to sabatoge him. That's a red badge of honor for me.

It's funny.... people have been laughing at "conspiracy theorists" for years, and now much of those theories are playing out in plain sight, and you even have globalists like Hilary Clinton admitting that "the economy is rigged" as part of her campaign. It's a joke.

I thought for sure Alex Jones of all people would find a way to say that Trump is some how an Illuminati puppet designed to disrupt or whatever..... but even Alex Jones has thrown his full support behind Trump. Something big is happening here.

When Trump talks about people who come up to him and tell him they've never voted in their lives, but are finally going to vote now.... I'm one of those people.

Nationalism is saying white race is superior...racism is saying Mexicans are rapists...

Ummmmmm.... what?

Mr Bill, you need to look up the word ignorance, the word you meant is "hope" because that is what Clinton supporters have on their side. Clinton, if she had any other name, would be an inferior candidate. The name Clinton is synonymous with economic prosperity (be it through his leadership or luck).

Ignorance is stating that just because something is different that it will be better. We all wanted Fisher fired, now we have Rambis. We wanted Scott Layden fired, we got Isiah Thomas we got "help" in Zach Randolph, how did that work?

I agree with the idea that "something big is happening here" and it is actually feasting on actual ignorance. Knowing that you want change, and voting for whatever is opposing the "system". We need a system reform, we need to have a more representative government with more clarity and transparency. That is why i support a more republican form of government as opposed to our Oligarchy or Aristocracy that we presently have. We may all "vote" but our votes are for party selected candidates.


Obviously what knicks85 said is so incorrect its funny (i may assume he was joking). Both examples are discrimination and bias.
I do actually believe in a return to nationalism. I believe that our country should provide equality to those that do not speak english. English vs Spanish is the popular debate, but appropriate English compared to slang. Is use of profanity, use of slang in a job interview a legitimate reason to not hire someone ? I would say it is, but from a cultural perspective may my definition of slang and improper grammar be an unfair bias which can serve to undermine fair hiring practices? This debate, to me, has no easy answer, but I figured it would be worth mentioning.

To respond to "trump is the most believable candidate" I question: what is their to believe in? Colin Cowherd, for all of his shortcomings, I have heard make great points in regards to how people actually vote. To paraphrase, someone may say that they hate mcdonalds, subway, etc, but they still buy the product.
Trump has talked about his "platforms" and spoken with bravado about what strong leadership he can bring. Trump's history is riddled with inconsistencies which highlight only one commonality: Trump is in it for Trump.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ[/youtube]
If you want someone real, someone who tells it like it is, he exists, and he isn't interested in the race -- Jon Stewart. Whether you agree with him on policy or not is ENTIRELY a different matter, but he is someone who literally calls it as HE sees it. There are certainly others out there who have that honesty and genuine nature to them. But unfortunately, we don't get to pick from them. We are stuck with a Mascot for the bad side of capitalism who openly idolizes despots, a socialist, the definition of the Democrat establishment, A carpet-bomber who loves Jesus, the wunderkind of the Republican establishment, and an old know-it-all who has been a part of as many successes as failures.

That is what we have to pick from.
Your red badge may just become a bullet wound for Americans when all is said and done should other nations respond to Trump the way our country has responded to similar leaders abroad.

[DeanTheDream]

My position on Trump is......

If he's not a threat for the presidency......why are the liberals and democrats along with the establishment spending so much time and energy to try to condemn him.

He is a threat to presidency, thats why people are talking about him... World is getting seriously worried, where guy like Perry crashed and burned, Trump actually got a huge following it seems. He is using his xenophobia and Islamophobia cards like a pro.

I still have faith in American people tho, I still doubt he wins, I hope at least.

The world has been seriously damaged by the guy sitting in the big chair for the last 8 years. I doubt the world is seriously worried anymore than they already are.

[Rasho Brezec]

Btw, Bernie is not a socialist. He has some socialist views, like believing everyone should have free healthcare, and everyone who works 40 or more hours per week should not be living in poverty, and be earning a livable wage.

That's not socialism. That's social democracy. Every Western European country established it after WWII.

[Isiahthomass]

Makes you sad when you realize large groups of people actually support this guy. We still have a long way to go, aren't we. Still not as bad as Rick Perry in 2012 IMO tho.

Wonder if "The Donald" will be getting hammers from interns in the Oval Office or playing around with cigars.

Hillary is like old dirty, dried out house mop -- **** even +70'year old Bernie looks like a teenager compared to that battle-axe.

Problem with Bernie is that he'll take my fed taxes from 28% to +50% --- can't have that Bernie.

They talk about his 'business acumen being poor' . What businesses have Sanders, Clinton, Cruz and Rubio ever ran with a slight modicum of success compared to Trump.

Gotta love the duplicity in this country. Running a business has risks. Bigger the reward, bigger the risk. ALL people when trying something difficult will possibly fail. The people who are successful are the ones who pick themselves up, brush themselves off and try again. Failing is human (See old Michael Jordan Poster). The people that use the bankrupticies against Trump are the biggest hypocritical pieces of garbage I've ever seen.

[captvict]

Rubio is a wimp

[Riot Randolph]

My position on Trump is......

If he's not a threat for the presidency......why are the liberals and democrats along with the establishment spending so much time and energy to try to condemn him.

He is a threat to presidency, thats why people are talking about him... World is getting seriously worried, where guy like Perry crashed and burned, Trump actually got a huge following it seems. He is using his xenophobia and Islamophobia cards like a pro.

I still have faith in American people tho, I still doubt he wins, I hope at least.

The world has been seriously damaged by the guy sitting in the big chair for the last 8 years. I doubt the world is seriously worried anymore than they already are.

what do you have to back that up? Financial indicator? Crime levels? international sentiment? Or are you just regurgitating something you heard your daddy tell you?

[IllmaticHandler]

My position on Trump is......

If he's not a threat for the presidency......why are the liberals and democrats along with the establishment spending so much time and energy to try to condemn him.

He is a threat to presidency, thats why people are talking about him... World is getting seriously worried, where guy like Perry crashed and burned, Trump actually got a huge following it seems. He is using his xenophobia and Islamophobia cards like a pro.

I still have faith in American people tho, I still doubt he wins, I hope at least.

The world has been seriously damaged by the guy sitting in the big chair for the last 8 years. I doubt the world is seriously worried anymore than they already are.

How much was the world damaged by the Big Guy who sat in the chair for 8 years before Obama?

[Isiahthomass]

Btw, Bernie is not a socialist. He has some socialist views, like believing everyone should have free healthcare, and everyone who works 40 or more hours per week should not be living in poverty, and be earning a livable wage.

That's not socialism. That's social democracy. Every Western European country established it after WWII.

The reason those Western European countries are able to spend so much more money on social services and the like are because the United States subsidize their defense through NATO to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars each year. Cut the defense budgets and you will see much better redistribution, but the politicians (Bernie included) can't have their buddies in the military hardware business sitting on unused 3 million dollars tanks and Apache helicopters.

[spree8]

Btw, Bernie is not a socialist. He has some socialist views, like believing everyone should have free healthcare, and everyone who works 40 or more hours per week should not be living in poverty, and be earning a livable wage.

That's not socialism. That's social democracy. Every Western European country established it after WWII.

Yep...Hence his self appointed title of "democratic socialist"