Knicks hire Walt Perrin as Assistant GM

[thebuzzardman]

So, general thoughts about the Rose/Aller/Perrin/Zanin hires.

This is with the following caveats:
It could all suck
Dolan being around still can be the ultimate torpedo
There are still Dolan cronies around. Alan Houston for sure, others I'm less sure about.
Knicks have hired guys that seemed to be a decent idea and it failed before
Rose is still an ex agent and there isn't a big track record of success for those guys in the NBA as POBO/GM's

That out of the way, just general thoughts that in now way feel definitive.

Knicks SEEM to be on an upward trajectory of hiring guys who are liked around the league and have "been around"
Yes, ultimately TALENT is what matters. The talent seems to be there with Aller and Perrin. Rose's talent as a POBO is in question. I really know nothing about Zanin and pretty sure no one on here does either.

So, even though Mills sucked and was a snake, I THINK he was able to convince Dolan of some iterative moves towards respectability.
Holding onto picks. Getting more picks. Managing the cap and keeping $/space available for the truly excellent players. Hiring Perry, who is well liked around the league and has a long resume. Yes, Perry is probably a mediocre guy but bear with me.

I think Mills sold Dolan on some of these ideas, but also with the following: "I'm Steve Mills and I've got connections around the league, with players and FO's, and I can lure free agents once we build the base". Or, maybe Mills sold Dolan hard on his ability to bring in FA's once the KP situation fell apart and KP got traded. It's obvious that Mills put in Dolan's mind that "big time FA's are on the horizon" and "playoffs soon!" and Mills got the boot when neither happened.

Rose was hired to be the Mills that Mills couldn't be. Which is, have connections. Get trades done. And, also, I'd guess, be a generally competent POBO.

And Rose takes the following approach:
Continues the Knicks change of hiring guys with some respect around the league, and thankfully, some amount of talent: Aller/Perrin.
(Yes, I would prefer a big name GM hire, or well established "young exec on the rise". Oh well)
Keeps Perry around and doesn't sh*t on his head because Perry is WELL LIKED around the league. And connected. It might not make Perry good at his job - I think he's mediocre, but I think Rose keeps Perry around for "transition" reasons, but also to show the rest of the league the Knicks aren't the total d*ck organization they were before. This is just a hunch; I don't have a definitive opinion on it.
Rose keeps Perry on, but he brings in HIS OWN GUYS to do the heavy lifting. Cap. College Scouting. Pro Player Scouting.
I'm not saying Perry is a complete figurehead, but it's close.
What Rose is also doing is surrounding himself with loyalists. I'd assume this is important at MSG with Dolan always having his cronies.

Anyway, still looking forward to a different player development guy, analytics hire and maybe a hotshot young GM type next year (not sure on that one) but the outline of the approach Rose is taking seems reasonable.
Then again, It's the Knicks, and moves that've seemed reasonable before have turned into a total dungheap, so who knows.

[Triple C]

Read on Twitter

[DOT]

Probably a good move

Jazz are one of the more consistently well run teams in the league, even after Stockton and Malone left, they've been to the playoffs more than they've missed, and have only had two sub-30 win seasons

And if Perrin's been there for 20 years, he's been through most of that, but again, kind of hard to determine how big of a role he played in the decisions, as he wasn't in charge

[kej718]

The last guy named Walt we had lead us to a Championship.

With all those picks we have him and Perry could build us a team.Utah and OKC are places that don't attract free agents. They build through the draft, and now we got 2 guys from those organizations. Perry will probably be out next season, and this guy may replace him.

[F N 11]

https://theathletic.com/1822733/2020/05/19/he-tees-it-up-for-everybody-what-a-long-time-jazz-exec-brings-to-the-knicks/?article_source=related

In 2001, Kevin O’Connor made his first hire as the head of the Jazz front office. He brought on Walt Perrin to run player personnel for Utah, impressed by the track record he put together for the Pistons and in need of someone who could the same for the Jazz.

Over the 19 years since, the Jazz have made more than a handful of gilded draft picks. Perrin pushed O’Connor to trade up to No. 3 in 2005, high enough to choose between Deron Williams and Chris Paul. “He said, ‘We have to get one of those two guys,'” O’Connor recalled, “‘because they’re going to be a franchise changer.’”

The Jazz picked future All-Stars with the 47th overall picks in 2003 (Mo Williams) and 2006 (Paul Millsap). Utah selected Gordon Hayward at No. 9 in 2010. Rudy Gobert, originally drafted by Denver but immediately traded to Utah, was a steal at No. 27 in 2013. The Jazz took Donovan Mitchell 13th in 2017 and watched him blossom into an All-Star.

“That’s one constant throughout all of that,” O’Connor said. “And that was Walt.”

Spoiler:

Now, Perrin will bring that resume and scouting eye to New York. He will come in to be the Knicks assistant general manager in charge of college scouting, league sources said. The hire will be the second one made by new team president Leon Rose after he brought in Brock Aller in April as a VP of basketball strategy and kept Scott Perry as the Knicks general manager.

Perrin’s addition has been well-received after he played a large role in helping Utah have a number of successful drafts over his nearly two decades with the organization. He has earned a reputation as a well-connected and well-liked executive with a keen approach to the draft. Perrin was not the sole voice making picks with the Jazz, but as VP of player personnel, he was an integral part of advising O’Connor and then Dennis Lindsey in a string of draft-night successes. The Jazz were not without their mistakes over the last 19 years (Trey Burke and Dante Exum are two), but the franchise drafted six players who would become All-Stars in that time.

“I think he has a unique ability … to evaluate their transition into being a successful pro, both in character and personality for the franchise and the place that you’re at and overall talent,” O’Connor said. “Obviously you have to be good enough to play, but there’s other factors involved.”

Added O’Connor: “He’s the collector of information, and he tees it up for everybody. Then it gets to be a decision that is bandied around.”

Said Rick Sund, a longtime NBA executive and Pistons GM when Perrin was in Detroit: “Walt’s a respected guy within the industry, especially on the scouting side.”

Rose will have made his biggest shakeup yet to the scouting department when Perrin comes aboard. The Knicks have had limited prosperity in the draft over the last decade. Of their 15 picks in the last 10 years, Kristaps Porzingis is the lone All-Star, while Mitchell Robinson, drafted by the front office Rose inherited, is a second-round steal.

The Jazz landed two franchise pillars in that time. They traded for Gobert, a lanky and long center out of France, on draft night, and he is now the two-time reigning Defensive Player of the Year.

In 2017, Perrin convinced Mitchell’s agent to bring his client to Salt Lake City for a workout despite initial trepidation and the Jazz’s lack of a lottery pick. Then the Jazz traded up from 24 to 13 to select the steal of the draft.

“Walt was able to get him in and everybody obviously fell in love with him,” said O’Connor, now a senior consultant for the franchise. “Walt had already expressed that he thought (Mitchell) was a lottery pick.”

While parsing credit can be difficult, Perrin, one person with knowledge of the Jazz drafts said, had a “big role” in those picks, noting Utah’s general manager relies on the information Perrin gathers before making a deal or selection.

Perrin will be in a similar position in New York as the Knicks prepare for the 2020 draft, which is still scheduled for late June but seems likely to be moved. The league suspended its season in mid-March, but has yet to cancel it or announce any schedule to restart it. The draft combine and lottery, which were both scheduled for this week, have been postponed.

The Knicks have the sixth-worst record in the league and could pick anywhere from first to ninth, and Rose will be at the helm of his first draft. By bringing in Perrin, the Knicks not only add a well-respected executive, but also someone who has already done the work in preparing for the draft.

The 2020 draft will be another crucial one for the Knicks. They’ll hold a high lottery pick for the fourth straight season, but in a draft that has been described as weaker than usual.

Perrin will come to New York under those circumstances after a career mostly spent in a few places. He was an assistant coach at Northwestern for 12 years, working for Tex Winter, the great sage of the triangle offense, for the first four seasons from 1974-78. He spent nine seasons with the Pistons as an assistant coach and as the team’s scouting director.

When Perrin discussed the possibility of a new job with O’Connor, he had no reservations about taking it, his old boss said.

“It’s a great opportunity and I think Walt really liked the idea of another challenge,” O’Connor said. “I think Utah was a place that he’d been comfortable at for 19 years and done a terrific job. He could have rode off into the sunset, but I think he really wants to tie it on a little bit and take the challenge on. Figure out a way to get to ’70 and ’73 when the Knicks won the world championship.”

Wow, I am proud of my Knicks. I wouldn’t mind getting CP3 if it means he is playing along with Melo/Killian/Haliburton, RJ and Mitch.

[GONYK]

The last guy named Walt we had lead us to a Championship.

With all those picks we have him and Perry could build us a team.Utah and OKC are places that don't attract free agents. They build through the draft, and now we got 2 guys from those organizations. Perry will probably be out next season, and this guy may replace him.

Walt McCarty?

[moocow007]

The last guy named Walt we had lead us to a Championship.

With all those picks we have him and Perry could build us a team.Utah and OKC are places that don't attract free agents. They build through the draft, and now we got 2 guys from those organizations. Perry will probably be out next season, and this guy may replace him.

Walt McCarty?

Speaking of whom, here's Mr Personality today

[Zenzibar]

This is an amazing hire. Our scouting department has been acutally pretty good. Walt Perrin and Frank Zanin from OKC will undoubtedly take the current scouting department to a new level.

We've probably assembled the best scouting corp in the NBA, if not, top 5.

WIth 7 picks upcoming, I'm drooling!!!

[Jimmit79]

This is an amazing hire. Our scouting department has been acutally pretty good. Walt Perrin and Frank Zanin from OKC will undoubtedly take the current scouting department to a new level.

We've probably assembled the best scouting corp in the NBA, if not, top 5.

WIth 7 picks upcoming, I'm drooling!!!

Dolan wants a win now team though lol.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

[Zenzibar]

This is an amazing hire. Our scouting department has been acutally pretty good. Walt Perrin and Frank Zanin from OKC will undoubtedly take the current scouting department to a new level.

We've probably assembled the best scouting corp in the NBA, if not, top 5.

WIth 7 picks upcoming, I'm drooling!!!

Dolan wants a win now team though lol.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

You don't know. This Dolan narrative is tired.

[knickstape21]

Read on Twitter

If you’re into the whole “connections” thing...

Plus Jay Wright, Leon Rose, and Frank Zanin all have that South Jersey/Philly connection going as well.

I’m just dreaming here

[WargamesX]

Read on Twitter

If you’re into the whole “connections” thing...

Plus Jay Wright, Leon Rose, and Frank Zanin all have that South Jersey/Philly connection going as well.

I’m just dreaming here

Don’t get our hopes up. Wright would be perfect for this team but I don’t think he plans to leave Villanova. Leon would have to pull something magical to get him to leave

[Mecca]

Leon knows what people in the NBA are respected and what minds to surround himself with. I got sources of this from months ago. That he might not be the best BBIQ guy, but he'll hire the best.

[Clyde Frazier]

Good interview with Jazz broadcaster Jeremiah Jensen about Perrin on the Knicks Film School podcast:

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/knicks-film-school/the-knicks-film-school-podcast/e/69770244?refid=asa&autoplay=true

Sounds like we got a great scout who's very thorough in evaluation. Could be a less eccentric version of gaines lol.

[thebuzzardman]

Leon knows what people in the NBA are respected and what minds to surround himself with. I got sources of this from months ago. That he might not be the best BBIQ guy, but he'll hire the best.

And short of a guy who has both, isn't that the attribute any team or organization wants in it's leader?

It would seem to be pretty high on the list. Ok, and the smarts and humility to let them do what they do best.

Thanks for posting this. It's a good sign.

[thebuzzardman]

Leon knows what people in the NBA are respected and what minds to surround himself with. I got sources of this from months ago. That he might not be the best BBIQ guy, but he'll hire the best.

Also, to bring it back to a FO thread, I asked you about Perry in the KP thread.

You seemed to indicate he might be here longer than a year.

I won't repost my Perry pro/cons, other than to reiterate to those who want to avoid the KP thread that I'd rather see Perry gone in a clean house, get a young GM on the rise move, but also that Perry has certain pros and certain cons, and what about his pros might be leading the Knicks to want to retain him.

Do the Knicks view him as with more pluses, as some of the moves Knick fans collectively didn't like were more driven by Mills?

I know that Mills/Perry/Fiz talked about working together, doing stuff collectively, and Mills also said stuff about "Perry is the GM and I'll let him do his thing" (I should try to find these and source them) but gut feeling to me, and yes, it might be driven by me not liking Mills, or suspecting he was "the issue" for the Knicks for a long time (besides obviously Dolan), is that Mills was more hands on and unilateral on the bigger moves.

[MaseInYourFace]

So, general thoughts about the Rose/Aller/Perrin/Zanin hires.

This is with the following caveats:
It could all suck
Dolan being around still can be the ultimate torpedo
There are still Dolan cronies around. Alan Houston for sure, others I'm less sure about.
Knicks have hired guys that seemed to be a decent idea and it failed before
Rose is still an ex agent and there isn't a big track record of success for those guys in the NBA as POBO/GM's

That out of the way, just general thoughts that in now way feel definitive.

Knicks SEEM to be on an upward trajectory of hiring guys who are liked around the league and have "been around"
Yes, ultimately TALENT is what matters. The talent seems to be there with Aller and Perrin. Rose's talent as a POBO is in question. I really know nothing about Zanin and pretty sure no one on here does either.

So, even though Mills sucked and was a snake, I THINK he was able to convince Dolan of some iterative moves towards respectability.
Holding onto picks. Getting more picks. Managing the cap and keeping $/space available for the truly excellent players. Hiring Perry, who is well liked around the league and has a long resume. Yes, Perry is probably a mediocre guy but bear with me.

I think Mills sold Dolan on some of these ideas, but also with the following: "I'm Steve Mills and I've got connections around the league, with players and FO's, and I can lure free agents once we build the base". Or, maybe Mills sold Dolan hard on his ability to bring in FA's once the KP situation fell apart and KP got traded. It's obvious that Mills put in Dolan's mind that "big time FA's are on the horizon" and "playoffs soon!" and Mills got the boot when neither happened.

Rose was hired to be the Mills that Mills couldn't be. Which is, have connections. Get trades done. And, also, I'd guess, be a generally competent POBO.

And Rose takes the following approach:
Continues the Knicks change of hiring guys with some respect around the league, and thankfully, some amount of talent: Aller/Perrin.
(Yes, I would prefer a big name GM hire, or well established "young exec on the rise". Oh well)
Keeps Perry around and doesn't sh*t on his head because Perry is WELL LIKED around the league. And connected. It might not make Perry good at his job - I think he's mediocre, but I think Rose keeps Perry around for "transition" reasons, but also to show the rest of the league the Knicks aren't the total d*ck organization they were before. This is just a hunch; I don't have a definitive opinion on it.
Rose keeps Perry on, but he brings in HIS OWN GUYS to do the heavy lifting. Cap. College Scouting. Pro Player Scouting.
I'm not saying Perry is a complete figurehead, but it's close.
What Rose is also doing is surrounding himself with loyalists. I'd assume this is important at MSG with Dolan always having his cronies.

Anyway, still looking forward to a different player development guy, analytics hire and maybe a hotshot young GM type next year (not sure on that one) but the outline of the approach Rose is taking seems reasonable.
Then again, It's the Knicks, and moves that've seemed reasonable before have turned into a total dungheap, so who knows.

Don’t the Warriors have an ex agent in their FO?

[MaseInYourFace]

Rose is already better than Mills.

[VirginiaKnickFan]

So, general thoughts about the Rose/Aller/Perrin/Zanin hires.

This is with the following caveats:
It could all suck
Dolan being around still can be the ultimate torpedo
There are still Dolan cronies around. Alan Houston for sure, others I'm less sure about.
Knicks have hired guys that seemed to be a decent idea and it failed before
Rose is still an ex agent and there isn't a big track record of success for those guys in the NBA as POBO/GM's

That out of the way, just general thoughts that in now way feel definitive.

Knicks SEEM to be on an upward trajectory of hiring guys who are liked around the league and have "been around"
Yes, ultimately TALENT is what matters. The talent seems to be there with Aller and Perrin. Rose's talent as a POBO is in question. I really know nothing about Zanin and pretty sure no one on here does either.

So, even though Mills sucked and was a snake, I THINK he was able to convince Dolan of some iterative moves towards respectability.
Holding onto picks. Getting more picks. Managing the cap and keeping $/space available for the truly excellent players. Hiring Perry, who is well liked around the league and has a long resume. Yes, Perry is probably a mediocre guy but bear with me.

I think Mills sold Dolan on some of these ideas, but also with the following: "I'm Steve Mills and I've got connections around the league, with players and FO's, and I can lure free agents once we build the base". Or, maybe Mills sold Dolan hard on his ability to bring in FA's once the KP situation fell apart and KP got traded. It's obvious that Mills put in Dolan's mind that "big time FA's are on the horizon" and "playoffs soon!" and Mills got the boot when neither happened.

Rose was hired to be the Mills that Mills couldn't be. Which is, have connections. Get trades done. And, also, I'd guess, be a generally competent POBO.

And Rose takes the following approach:
Continues the Knicks change of hiring guys with some respect around the league, and thankfully, some amount of talent: Aller/Perrin.
(Yes, I would prefer a big name GM hire, or well established "young exec on the rise". Oh well)
Keeps Perry around and doesn't sh*t on his head because Perry is WELL LIKED around the league. And connected. It might not make Perry good at his job - I think he's mediocre, but I think Rose keeps Perry around for "transition" reasons, but also to show the rest of the league the Knicks aren't the total d*ck organization they were before. This is just a hunch; I don't have a definitive opinion on it.
Rose keeps Perry on, but he brings in HIS OWN GUYS to do the heavy lifting. Cap. College Scouting. Pro Player Scouting.
I'm not saying Perry is a complete figurehead, but it's close.
What Rose is also doing is surrounding himself with loyalists. I'd assume this is important at MSG with Dolan always having his cronies.

Anyway, still looking forward to a different player development guy, analytics hire and maybe a hotshot young GM type next year (not sure on that one) but the outline of the approach Rose is taking seems reasonable.
Then again, It's the Knicks, and moves that've seemed reasonable before have turned into a total dungheap, so who knows.

Don’t the Warriors have an ex agent in their FO?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Myers

[thebuzzardman]

Here's something interesting to discuss

Perrin might give the Knicks some additional advantages for this:

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/258227/Penny-Hardaway-Its-A-Recruiting-War-When-It-Comes-To-G-League-Pathway-Program

https://gleague.nba.com/news/nba-g-league-introduces-professional-path-select-contracts-elite-basketball-prospects/

During the year leading up to the 2019-20 season, the NBA G League will hire a dedicated program manager and establish a working group that will be tasked with identifying eligible elite players who may be offered Select Contracts. More broadly, this working group will also oversee the implementation of the professional path initiative.

Players will be eligible to sign a Select Contract if they turn 18 by Sept. 15 prior to the season in which they would play. While there is no maximum age for a player to be eligible for a Select Contract, the contracts are not available to players who have gone through an NBA Draft.

Well, the league establishes the "pool" of players eligible. Obviously it's a narrow slice, in the player has to be NOT draft eligible and still deciding to forgo college. I guess the NBA is trying to evolve the G League and stop losing guys to Europe etc for a year/two years.

Actually, not sure Perrin is a specific help. If the players are allowed to sign as FA's, factors like the quality of a team's developmental program, playing time in a year, perception of the organization are all the biggest factors of who signs where.