OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee

[Strick]

Another thing to consider, just like the ACL, we don’t have many cases of players 7’3 and built like KP sustain injuries like this enough to get an accurate time table. Based off of 7 footers it is not favorable, especially when you think about KP liking to be a little more mobile than the average 7 footer. He will probably have to dramatically alter his game and/or sit out much longer than a typical meniscus injury to a player. At least that’s how I see it

[NoLayupRule]

If by some miracle we had two lottery picks next year I would be absolutely hammered for the lottery lol. How ironic would be that we win the first pick for the first time in forever and it wasn’t “our” pick lol

Well first we have to make it through the offseason without moving the pick. And the deadline.

If we’re making a free agent run in 2021 then we will probably be looking to make a big trade before then to give free agents a partner of quality in nyc.

I hope we retain those two picks. And Robinson and RJ of course.
And land a stud this draft.

But we have to hope rose is patient and values picks

[Knick4Real]

The NBA wants to start the 20/21 season in December... KP likely to miss at least at least 4 months and then I'd expect Dallas to be REALLY careful bringing him back. KP just may miss the entire season, especially if Dallas is struggling. The other thing for them would be to not wear Luka out. In any case, I just don't think KP will live up to that max contract. Skill has always been there but those injuries have been too

He's not going to miss the year. This is like an 8 week recovery for a meniscus tear.

It's concerning that he has another injury, but he's still done more than anything we got in the trade, so no we didn't win the trade.

I wish my meniscus tear only took 8 weeks. Try a few months!

[KnicksGadfly]

Honestly, I don't know if we can say that this pick is guaranteed lotto. Luka and Carlisle will definitely make it challenging.

Still wouldn't trade it though.

[KnicksGadfly]

Phil was right about KP but no one wanted to hear about it at that time. Had we let Phil do his job (by trading KP), we would’ve had Tatum. Firing Phil and promoting Mills/Perry set this team back 5 years.

1) We let Phil do his job for a long time before then. He was incompetent for all of that. Gave Melo a NTC, the Noah signing, the bashing of our players through the media, signing Derek Fisher, Hornacek, the triangle, etc. That one instinct he had...was it really genius? Or was it an example of the clock being right twice a day? Does it erase everything else he did? If he had done his job right, there would be no questioning of Phil's decision-making. Phil did it to himself. Larry Brown effin wanted to trade Stephon Marbury...but guess what, Larry Brown sabotaged his own ass by doing stupid stuff too.

2) He also was responsible for tanking the trade value for several of our assets...why do you think KP became a malcontent? What he should have done was: be a competent GM for the first few years, keep it quiet, raise KP's trade value while keeping him happy, don't leak crap to your butt buddy Rosen, and then spring the trade. You might think this is too high of a bar to set, but I'm basically describing what Danny Ainge does. It's cold and cruel and maybe a balance could be found, but Phil has no one to blame but himself. He was finally held accountable for his performance, and the only question was what took Dolan so long. Finally, seems like Boston had no desire for that trade.

In conclusion, firing Phil was the right idea. Hiring Mills and Perry was the wrong idea. But doesn't mean that makes Phil look better. Trash POBO...he had a nice career, but with the Knicks, his name deserves to be with Isiah and Layden.

[Juco24]

The NBA wants to start the 20/21 season in December... KP likely to miss at least at least 4 months and then I'd expect Dallas to be REALLY careful bringing him back. KP just may miss the entire season, especially if Dallas is struggling. The other thing for them would be to not wear Luka out. In any case, I just don't think KP will live up to that max contract. Skill has always been there but those injuries have been too

He's not going to miss the year. This is like an 8 week recovery for a meniscus tear.

It's concerning that he has another injury, but he's still done more than anything we got in the trade, so no we didn't win the trade.

I wish my meniscus tear only took 8 weeks. Try a few months!

Yeah man, I don't know what Sark was talking about.

[Jeff Van Gully]

No we still lost the trade because we could have had Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Crowder, possibly another lottery pick for Porzyngis.

that doesn't make any sense. the question is about the trade with dallas, not the hypothetical trade scenario with boston years prior.

[KnickLeDime]

Petty? Yes! But.....

L
M
A
O

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[Fat Kat]

Honestly, I don't know if we can say that this pick is guaranteed lotto. Luka and Carlisle will definitely make it challenging.

Still wouldn't trade it though.

Luka alone will probably get an 8th seed, but he’s not Mr. durability either. Also have to figure with COVID going around, the entire season will be unpredictable.

[BKlutch]

Another thing to consider, just like the ACL, we don’t have many cases of players 7’3 and built like KP sustain injuries like this enough to get an accurate time table. Based off of 7 footers it is not favorable, especially when you think about KP liking to be a little more mobile than the average 7 footer. He will probably have to dramatically alter his game and/or sit out much longer than a typical meniscus injury to a player. At least that’s how I see it

Players this tall have unique musculoskeletal issues. Yao Ming was a great player, when he could play healthy. That wasn't for very long. KP doesn't have foot problems, but seems to stress both knees. Now he's got $120,000,000 guaranteed. I don't think he will want to tear another ACL or have both meniscuses removed and soon become arthritic. We're not likely to see him playing at full strength for very long stretches. Or maybe he won't play for long stretches at all.

KP may wind up being ok, but I doubt he's going to play up to the size of that salary. Smells like a bad contract to me.

[Jeff Van Gully]

y'all tugging at karma's pant leg.

[blanko]

He got traded, we shouldn't give a fuq either way

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[Jose7]

I was listening to one of Dallas team doctors on the radio today (I’m in Dallas) dude was at a loss for words for porzingis’s anatomical outlook on his knees. He just kept saying “we’ve never seen a guy his size move the way he does” and kinda tossing it up in the air, how he truly believes KP’s body will hold up.

I’ll say this. He’s 25, not 21 anymore. And he’s had multiple major injuries. He’s 7’3 playing like a guard. I think he’s gonna have to really adjust how he plays which is hard to tell anyone to change how they do their job, unnatural.

[thebuzzardman]

Also, let's stop with the narrative that "Randle was brought in to replace KP" or "Knicks traded KP and they got a crap return and then used KP's cap space on Randle"

Sure, Randle was signed, in Mills eyes, to be that younger, still getting better PF who could slot in at the spot KP played.
And yes, arguments can be made that the Knicks did "Ok" or "not that great" or "bad" in the return for KP - as is your opinion.

But Randle wasn't brought in specifically to fill the slot in that he's KP's replacement or the reason the trade was done.

Typical Mills BS of falling for a youngish 6th man who is "on the way up" signed to the "contract that is a value now and will be more so later!" This is OBVIOUSLY a Mills move as it replicates the THJr fiasco in all ways, from the 6th man, to the overpay, to the crappy job done in pro player scouting

Where Perry comes in is in reducing the length of the contract, though I think Mills also had the idea to maintain future cap space as well.

So, it's not incorrect that Mills\Perry used the slot to mollify the fans and replace KP's part in the line up, but it's a bit off to imply that Randle was the plan or even the result of trading KP

Also, and I'm no fan of Randle, but:

Kristaps:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/dallas-mavericks/kristaps-porzingis-17832/


2019-20 $27,285,000
2020-21 $29,467,800
2021-22 $31,650,600
2022-23 $33,833,400
2023-24 $36,016,200 (player option - yeah, he'll pick it up)


Randle:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/julius-randle-15359/

2019-20 $18,000,000
2020-21 $18,900,000
2021-22 $18,900,000 (TEAM option) with $4,000,000 cap hit if team exercises that option, which it will

If KP wanted to stay (doubtful) and if he becomes a legit and mostly healthy 2nd option, then the trade doesn't look that great BUT the Knicks and KP got to move on, the Knicks got 2 1st round picks, though obviously around #25 in the drafts and DSJr (whatevs)

If the Knicks calculation was that KP would not remain healthy and he doesn't, then it was a strong move.

See, I disagree at least with the idea that it is typical Mills bull. I mean, the real problem is Julius' play. If he played better or the team played better its a sound plan. Getting players who are young and on the way up on reasonable deals that give us an out. I been wondering for yrs why the Knicks never use team options and here they did. You don't like Randle and I'm not gonna challenge that but the point is there is an out once you've decided you wanna move on.

I think Mills/Perry did a good job with some things. We kept draft picks galore and in trades always demanded draft picks and we've stayed flexible. The fact that the next GM can walk in and you be so excited at all the options in and of itself prove that the previous FO did a decent job. Usually we get a new GM and give them no cap space and no draft picks for the next 2 yrs.

But sometimes you can do something well and ruin it right? Sometimes how you sell something actually ruins it. What do I mean? Well if Mills said that all these moves ......THE SAME EXACT MOVES........ we're part of our own "process" and that it was all about playing and developing young guys and that we'd use the space to take on salary in exchange for more draft picks to move up in drafts and draft our next superstar it might've felt different. Perhaps today Mills might be looked at differently WITH THE SAME EXACT MOVES. But instead its always about attracting stars, attracting stars, attracting stars, attracting stars.

Sometimes you know what you're dealing with by asking them how they define success or failure. If you ask me why the Knicks have failed Id say we've drafted poorly and have failed to develop a team that can play together. If you ask Mills his failures he'd probably say that he failed to attract a star. And guess what? Our new FO has the same marching orders. All our picks, all our space........its still about attracting a star. The Knicks are the sloppy seconds franchise always lusting after some other team player that THEY drafted, that THEY developed. There will never be another Patrick Ewing for the Knicks

I agree with you about Randle's play to an extent. And I've always said that Mills\Perry did some good things.

I mean, on the one hand they did tread water and not really develop the projects they drafted (or phil did) but some of that is on the players/their talent as well. But without going into each and every thing, they sort of put a decent base to operate off of.

Not the talent base, though Mitch and RJ isn't a bad start.
But they kept all draft picks, which is supposed to be normal, but is HUGE on the Knicks.
They acquired additional first rounders and some 2nd rounders. Yes, the first rounders are low and came at the expense of KP, but they are there. The pick for Morris is 27th, also low, but it's there.
And cap space/flexibility was maintained, even with Randle.

But back to Randle - not the worst signing at all. Not a long contract - not as bad a situation as the THJr deal was.
In fact, even though Randle is kind of a bad fit with RJ and Mitch, they could have mitigated fit issues with maybe a few different moves instead of Elfrid/Portis, though Bullock and Ellington the ideas were ok, though Ellington wound up steaky.

Not sure about the selling part, but Mills certainly got sent packing because he sold his ability to land stars post KP to Dolan, and then failed.

As we've covered before, that makes me wary of the why under which Rose was hired. Hopefully even if he's here to "close the deal on getting a star or two" that he goes about it the right way, developing some youth as players for the team or to deal as assets, etc.

Going to be interesting. Rose and WWW are unknown as execs, so we can't even say "based on the past record" and as Hezi has noted, these hires, from FO to coaches SEEM good, but proof is in the execution for the Knicks starting now.

[duetta]

Is it safe to say we won the trade now?

I think so...

We're likely not going to get much out of the picks, not so long as Luka remains healthy. It's all about what else we could have received back. Phil had the right idea when he was shopping him.

[blueNorange]

i'll take a .500 season from the mavs next year and a pick in the mid/late teens.

[Clyde_Style]

Phil was right about KP but no one wanted to hear about it at that time. Had we let Phil do his job (by trading KP), we would’ve had Tatum. Firing Phil and promoting Mills/Perry set this team back 5 years.

It doesn't mean Phil handled it well. He was doing his usual I'll tango with the player by embarrassing them with the media dance. Except he was the Prez now, not a coach, and that is not how you maintain trade value for a player you might actually trade.

Phil may have been right that KP was a diva and he may have even anticipated him breaking down, but that doesn't mean he deserves any particular credit for how he handled it. And I mean that even when KP was ghosting exit interviews. Phil was a horrible executive.

[knickabocker88]

KP has that goofy trainer no?

I hope hes smart and doesn't try to do a Ron Artest / Metta World Peace else his lateral movement will get even worse.

[offense]

Phil was right about KP but no one wanted to hear about it at that time. Had we let Phil do his job (by trading KP), we would’ve had Tatum. Firing Phil and promoting Mills/Perry set this team back 5 years.

It doesn't mean Phil handled it well. He was doing his usual I'll tango with the player by embarrassing them with the media dance. Except he was the Prez now, not a coach, and that is not how you maintain trade value for a player you might actually trade.

Phil may have been right that KP was a diva and he may have even anticipated him breaking down, but that doesn't mean he deserves any particular credit for how he handled it. And I mean that even when KP was ghosting exit interviews. Phil was a horrible executive.

what's wrong with phil?

[Clyde_Style]

Phil was right about KP but no one wanted to hear about it at that time. Had we let Phil do his job (by trading KP), we would’ve had Tatum. Firing Phil and promoting Mills/Perry set this team back 5 years.

It doesn't mean Phil handled it well. He was doing his usual I'll tango with the player by embarrassing them with the media dance. Except he was the Prez now, not a coach, and that is not how you maintain trade value for a player you might actually trade.

Phil may have been right that KP was a diva and he may have even anticipated him breaking down, but that doesn't mean he deserves any particular credit for how he handled it. And I mean that even when KP was ghosting exit interviews. Phil was a horrible executive.

what's wrong with phil?

Do you have an actual question? I already explained that he was using the media to beef with KP which doesn't help with trade value.