PG: Kemba Rises From the Ashes. Knicks Still Ass

[mpharris36]

I don't have ill will towards him either.

Him being miscast has nothing to do with his effort level though. He just quits and checks out.

For the commitment we made to him that's unforgivable.

Players are human and being put in the wrong role is going to have negative consequences.

And he is getting paid what a 3rd option should be paid. But is asked to carry a team. Which he isn't equipped to do.

i don't know. usually you want a 3rd option to hit some outside shots because they can't dominate the ball. he doesn't do that or play defense.

yup

I don't think it works that way. A 3rd option has to be more EFF with less looks. Randle isn't a C&S guy and he isn't a difference maker on defense. He thrives last year because he was very EFF with high usage. He know has **** EFF with high usage.

Its not automatic that as they take away his usage he will automatically become more EFF because his game is contested mid range shots...he made a lot of inefficient last year...maybe it was just a fluke.

[Clyde_Style]

Stevie Wonder did

It made him cry

[GONYK]

Players are human and being put in the wrong role is going to have negative consequences.

And he is getting paid what a 3rd option should be paid. But is asked to carry a team. Which he isn't equipped to do.

i don't know. usually you want a 3rd option to hit some outside shots because they can't dominate the ball. he doesn't do that or play defense.

yup

I don't think it works that way. A 3rd option has to be more EFF with less looks. Randle isn't a C&S guy and he isn't a difference maker on defense. He thrives last year because he was very EFF with high usage. He know has **** EFF with high usage.

Its not automatic that as they take away his usage he will automatically become more EFF because his game is contested mid range shots...he made a lot of inefficient last year...maybe it was just a fluke.

All of this is true and none of this should have anything to do with his defense.

[Im Coming Home]

trade Randle for Wall and just swallow his huge contract for this season and next honestly. Anything to get out of paying Randle for 4 more seasons after this one..

Dude, go take a shower. You talking crazy now. It's bad but don't make it worse.

How would it make it worse?

We're not winning sh*t this year or next, and this would allow us to get Randle off the books. We could just play the kids and run and gun.

Trading for Wall is honestly logical, we would open up cap space not this summer upcoming but the next instead of being locked into Randle til 2026.

[snadler]

You can get away with Kemba’s defense, if you had a lock down defender at the 2 spot, having Kemba’s defense with Fournier will never work. With that said I’d still let walker start because they need his offense, but who plays the #2 spot is the problem

[EnigmatiC]

Fire Leon Rose

[mpharris36]

again it doesn't matter if Kemba/Fournier get raging hot because we can't stop anyone.

Randle has been horrible all year.

But our defense just isn't good this year whatever thibs does lineup wise wont fix that.

I think we have a rare instance where playing the young guys is our best win now move

yup but there are more politics in the NBA that we would like to acknowledge. The FO committed to a lot of these guys.

Its not like Thibs can just bench Fournier. He benched Walker because its probably the easiest contract to get out of. But guys like Fournier/Rose/Burks are all going to play because we have commitments to them.

Maybe you get spot minutes now from Grimes but we all know thibs is going to ride the vets. The only reason the young guys were player was thibs hand was forced.

[Nazrmohamed]

Players are human and being put in the wrong role is going to have negative consequences.

And he is getting paid what a 3rd option should be paid. But is asked to carry a team. Which he isn't equipped to do.

Hes being asked to not kill our momentum every other play, and to play hard.

He is being asked to generate the offense on a team that lacks creators way too much.

That's a myth. The only thing you need to create offense in this league is pick and roll and the fact that yet again Noel,Taj and Mitch combine for 5 shot attempts tell you that it's something we don't employ. Most of Kemba and Fourniers shots tonight were shots you'd otherwise think are heat check shots and weren't necessarily a result of multiple passes and the defense scurrying around with the same confused look we had in the 4rth. No no no no no.


THIBS can't generate offense, his SYSTEM doesn't generate offense. If anything we have
Kemba
Rose
Quickley
Burks
Randle who all can create thier own offense if you were ok watching them iso all game. What this team lacks isn't shot creators, what we lack is a dynamic system of off ball movement, passing for the sake of finding the open man, any level of misdirection. So no, it's not that Randle lacks guys who can create so he's forced to. What's happening is he and Thibs are forcing the rest of the team to stand around, watch and if they're lucky get thier own chance to make something happen with 5 seconds left on the shot clock.


Don't perpetuate that bull.

[snadler]

Fire Leon Rose

And yet you love all the young players he drafted..so which is it?

[Enzo954]

People who think trading Randle is going to be easy are the same who think the Knicks are going to lose enough to get a top lottery pick

Who said it was going to be easy? We expect those guys in the front office who get paid millions of dollars to figure it out and do their damn job.

[snadler]

People who think trading Randle is going to be easy are the same who think the Knicks are going to lose enough to get a top lottery pick

Who said it was going to be easy? We expect those guys in the front office who get paid millions of dollars to figure it out and do their damn job.

You could be the best gm ever, but if there is no market you can’t create it

[FutureKnicksGM]

I don't have ill will towards him either.

Him being miscast has nothing to do with his effort level though. He just quits and checks out.

For the commitment we made to him that's unforgivable.

Players are human and being put in the wrong role is going to have negative consequences.

And he is getting paid what a 3rd option should be paid. But is asked to carry a team. Which he isn't equipped to do.

i don't know. usually you want a 3rd option to hit some outside shots because they can't dominate the ball. he doesn't do that or play defense.

Eh Draymond don't shoot that many 3's. And no Randles defense ain't in the same league, but he can provide way more offense in comparison, and score more efficiently as a finisher if we can open up the paint by one day having a 5 man that needs to be respected.

[GONYK]

again it doesn't matter if Kemba/Fournier get raging hot because we can't stop anyone.

Randle has been horrible all year.

But our defense just isn't good this year whatever thibs does lineup wise wont fix that.

I think we have a rare instance where playing the young guys is our best win now move

yup but there are more politics in the NBA that we would like to acknowledge. The FO committed to a lot of these guys.

Its not like Thibs can just bench Fournier. He benched Walker because its probably the easiest contract to get out of. But guys like Fournier/Rose/Burks are all going to play because we have commitments to them.

Maybe you get spot minutes now from Grimes but we all know thibs is going to ride the vets. The only reason the young guys were player was thibs hand was forced.

I don't think this is something that will happen tomorrow, but I do think the FO has to be thinking about pivoting if we don't make it out of this soft stretch at .500 or better.

The FO drafted these guys. I bet they'd rather roll the dice with those guys than the vets.

I do think they will give Thibs until the deadline before they sell pieces off though.

[mpharris36]

i don't know. usually you want a 3rd option to hit some outside shots because they can't dominate the ball. he doesn't do that or play defense.

yup

I don't think it works that way. A 3rd option has to be more EFF with less looks. Randle isn't a C&S guy and he isn't a difference maker on defense. He thrives last year because he was very EFF with high usage. He know has **** EFF with high usage.

Its not automatic that as they take away his usage he will automatically become more EFF because his game is contested mid range shots...he made a lot of inefficient last year...maybe it was just a fluke.

All of this is true and none of this should have anything to do with his defense.

that is a great comment. Not sure how that is going to get fixed. It's almost like Thibs put him on a pedestal last year and early this year that Randle can do no wrong and is held to a different standard then the rest of the team. There is no way anyone else could be dogging it on that end like he does and still has thibs back.

I feel thats a thibs problem more than a Randle problem...because thibs talks about accountability and we know Randle can at least be solid on that end (last year). This year he clearly lacked effort and interest on that end since getting paid. Ultimately that is the coaches job to nip that in the butt...however I feel thibs is so far down the line of praising randle its like he can't be critical of him.

[knickstape4ever]

Fire Leon Rose

fire everyone. this team is going nowhere. hire a FO that is willing to rebuild b/c that's what we need

none of our vets are must-keeps. Randle isn't someone to build around. we need to accumulate picks and keep drafting and focusing on developing (rather than signing vets to take away their minutes) to find cornerstone players

[Nazrmohamed]

trade Randle for Wall and just swallow his huge contract for this season and next honestly. Anything to get out of paying Randle for 4 more seasons after this one..

Dude, go take a shower. You talking crazy now. It's bad but don't make it worse.

How would it make it worse?

We're not winning sh*t this year or next, and this would allow us to get Randle off the books. We could just play the kids and run and gun.

Trading for Wall is honestly logical, we would open up cap space not this summer upcoming but the next instead of being locked into Randle til 2026.

He makes almost double Randles salary and all Thibs will do is turn him into the new Randle. If you care about the kids you don't trade for yet another overpaid bust of a veteran.

[knickstape4ever]

I know Detroit is terrible, but any chance we can lose that game?

[DaGawd]

it's time to try to do the unthinkable. move randle and take kp back.....lol

I mean at least KP has the injury excuse built in.. Randle? Ehhh..

[Sark]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Wouldn't make a difference.

[DaGawd]

I know Detroit is terrible, but any chance we can lose that game?

If they play with the spirit they did tonight which was surprising then probably not