Jalen Brunson obsession

[cgf]

I'm sorry but I think the majority of us would love to add a PG just not one that we are going to grossly overpay for.

That's what we said about FVV...

Ok so we pay FVV 20 million instead of fournier. Or maybe we get both.

So instead of being 28 -40 we are 30 -38/31-37. Then what? What is your path to a title?

You screwed your lottery chances. FVV is not making us 10 games better.

So now we went from the 9th pick to the 12th pick.

You get to see some more competitive basketball but at the end of the season the result is the same as this but with a worth pick.

Congrats.

And that is what you guys are missing.

I already answered this for you. Feel free to re-read those previous responses.

[bleedblue3303]

If you look at the best teams in the nba usually the have extremely high salaries and lower salaries and that is the winning formula. No one but your best players should ever be over 10 million. We have a ton of these midrange salaries for 2nd tier players. That leaves us with no room for star max players and smaller salaries for developmental projects. Look at GS besides Wiggins everyone getting big bucks deserves it. Look at Philly, Look at Brooklyn. Brunson will just add to our horrible practice of overpaying people who don't move the meter.

[8516knicks]

If you look at the best teams in the nba usually the have extremely high salaries and lower salaries and that is the winning formula. No one but your best players should ever be over 10 million. We have a ton of these midrange salaries for 2nd tier players. That leaves us with no room for star max players and smaller salaries for developmental projects. Look at GS besides Wiggins everyone getting big bucks deserves it. Look at Philly, Look at Brooklyn. Brunson will just add to our horrible practice of overpaying people who don't move the meter.

The problem is we have needed a PG for ages, yet some people can't find one they think is worth the money (that we might possibly really get). FOR DECADES.

So they don't want to overpay. Playing in today's NBA without a decent PG and a stretch frontcourt player but with an injury prone center who can't shoot more than 2 ft from the basket is fine for them as long as we don't overpay to get a functional PG.

So our offense is usually 3 vs 5. And now with the FA backcourt we have a no D backcourt defense. But keep waiting to find that guy who is worth paying instead of a good player to help the team function.

They think an all star will sign up. Like KD, right? No? How about Kyrie? No? How about Harden? No? None of them came here - they went to Brooklyn. What a surprise.

And we end up with Fournier and Kemba in FA.. Yeah, good strategy guys.

[Richard4444]

If you look at the best teams in the nba usually the have extremely high salaries and lower salaries and that is the winning formula. No one but your best players should ever be over 10 million. We have a ton of these midrange salaries for 2nd tier players. That leaves us with no room for star max players and smaller salaries for developmental projects. Look at GS besides Wiggins everyone getting big bucks deserves it. Look at Philly, Look at Brooklyn. Brunson will just add to our horrible practice of overpaying people who don't move the meter.

So, what is the choice? Waiting for a superstar savior (from FA or from the draft)? Trade a lot of crap assets and low picks for a young superstar?

To get a superstar via FA, you have to show them that the Knicks can be a winner.

To get a superstar via trades, you have to stockpile assets for a future trade. Brunson can be an asset in a future trade. I know he can be a hard-to-move contract if he does not develop. But this is a risky business. 25 years old hardworking and efficient players tend to develop. I like our odds. Getting good players on good contracts is a good path.

Getting a superstar from the draft is a crapshoot outside Top 4 picks. Especially in weak drafts. Besides, you have to be really awful.

[bleedblue3303]

If you look at the best teams in the nba usually the have extremely high salaries and lower salaries and that is the winning formula. No one but your best players should ever be over 10 million. We have a ton of these midrange salaries for 2nd tier players. That leaves us with no room for star max players and smaller salaries for developmental projects. Look at GS besides Wiggins everyone getting big bucks deserves it. Look at Philly, Look at Brooklyn. Brunson will just add to our horrible practice of overpaying people who don't move the meter.

So, what is the choice? Waiting for a superstar savior (from FA or from the draft)? Trade a lot of crap assets and low picks for a young superstar?

To get a superstar via FA, you have to show them that the Knicks can be a winner.

To get a superstar via trades, you have to stockpile assets for a future trade. Brunson can be an asset in a future trade. I know he can be a hard-to-move contract if he does not develop. But this is a risky business. 25 years old hardworking and efficient players tend to develop. I like our odds. Getting good players on good contracts is a good path.

Getting a superstar from the draft is a crapshoot outside Top 4 picks. Especially in weak drafts. Besides, you have to be really awful.

I think and i'm far from an expert who runs a team. Is pack it in when its a lost season, play hard for wins when there is a chance. This is a lost season. I'm pretty confident Jaden Ivey, Jabari Smith and Chet will all be allstar level players. We should have stopped trying to win the minute the allstar break ended and stayed in tank mode. That's 3 of the top 5 players in this draft. Getting one of them would be doable.

We do the same thing next year. if by the allstar break we are not looking good you accept its a lost season.

Problem is we never do that.

[Richard4444]

If you look at the best teams in the nba usually the have extremely high salaries and lower salaries and that is the winning formula. No one but your best players should ever be over 10 million. We have a ton of these midrange salaries for 2nd tier players. That leaves us with no room for star max players and smaller salaries for developmental projects. Look at GS besides Wiggins everyone getting big bucks deserves it. Look at Philly, Look at Brooklyn. Brunson will just add to our horrible practice of overpaying people who don't move the meter.

So, what is the choice? Waiting for a superstar savior (from FA or from the draft)? Trade a lot of crap assets and low picks for a young superstar?

To get a superstar via FA, you have to show them that the Knicks can be a winner.

To get a superstar via trades, you have to stockpile assets for a future trade. Brunson can be an asset in a future trade. I know he can be a hard-to-move contract if he does not develop. But this is a risky business. 25 years old hardworking and efficient players tend to develop. I like our odds. Getting good players on good contracts is a good path.

Getting a superstar from the draft is a crapshoot outside Top 4 picks. Especially in weak drafts. Besides, you have to be really awful.

I think and i'm far from an expert who runs a team. Is pack it in when its a lost season, play hard for wins when there is a chance. This is a lost season. I'm pretty confident Jaden Ivey, Jabari Smith and Chet will all be allstar level players. We should have stopped trying to win the minute the allstar break ended and stayed in tank mode. That's 3 of the top 5 players in this draft. Getting one of them would be doable.

We do the same thing next year. if by the allstar break we are not looking good you accept its a lost season.

Problem is we never do that.

Around Allstar break, I already gave up the season too. But, tanking was a tough option.

1) The odds to get a Top3 player were very small by then. A lot of teams way fewer victories than us.

2) It looks like we did not have good offers for our vets.

3) The coaching staff and the players want to try to get into the playoffs. They do not tank.

4) It's hard for the Front Office to prohibit some players to play. Especially vets in their prime. You have to fight the coaching staff, the group of players, their agents, their media, the NBA antitank policy (when the intent is evident), the fans (most casual), the ticketholders who pay money to see Randle... In the end, I wonder if the team can get better results without the vets. Especially Burks and Evan.

[bleedblue3303]

So, what is the choice? Waiting for a superstar savior (from FA or from the draft)? Trade a lot of crap assets and low picks for a young superstar?

To get a superstar via FA, you have to show them that the Knicks can be a winner.

To get a superstar via trades, you have to stockpile assets for a future trade. Brunson can be an asset in a future trade. I know he can be a hard-to-move contract if he does not develop. But this is a risky business. 25 years old hardworking and efficient players tend to develop. I like our odds. Getting good players on good contracts is a good path.

Getting a superstar from the draft is a crapshoot outside Top 4 picks. Especially in weak drafts. Besides, you have to be really awful.

I think and i'm far from an expert who runs a team. Is pack it in when its a lost season, play hard for wins when there is a chance. This is a lost season. I'm pretty confident Jaden Ivey, Jabari Smith and Chet will all be allstar level players. We should have stopped trying to win the minute the allstar break ended and stayed in tank mode. That's 3 of the top 5 players in this draft. Getting one of them would be doable.

We do the same thing next year. if by the allstar break we are not looking good you accept its a lost season.

Problem is we never do that.

Around Allstar break, I already gave up the season too. But, tanking was a tough option.

1) The odds to get a Top3 player were very small by then. A lot of teams way fewer victories than us.

2) It looks like we did not have good offers for our vets.

3) The coaching staff and the players want to try to get into the playoffs. They do not tank.

4) It's hard for the Front Office to prohibit some players to play. Especially vets in their prime. You have to fight the coaching staff, the group of players, their agents, their media, the NBA antitank policy (when the intent is evident)... In the end, I wonder if the team can get better results without the vets. Especially Burks and Evan.

Your probably right. But you can limit minutes. the 3 game win streak is driving me nuts. As long as we have top 5 in this draft we would be ok. But not looking good. Unless we get some luck. Maybe we are finally due. At this point I think Ivey is out hoping for Sharpe.

[cgf]

I think and i'm far from an expert who runs a team. Is pack it in when its a lost season, play hard for wins when there is a chance. This is a lost season. I'm pretty confident Jaden Ivey, Jabari Smith and Chet will all be allstar level players. We should have stopped trying to win the minute the allstar break ended and stayed in tank mode. That's 3 of the top 5 players in this draft. Getting one of them would be doable.

We do the same thing next year. if by the allstar break we are not looking good you accept its a lost season.

Problem is we never do that.

Around Allstar break, I already gave up the season too. But, tanking was a tough option.

1) The odds to get a Top3 player were very small by then. A lot of teams way fewer victories than us.

2) It looks like we did not have good offers for our vets.

3) The coaching staff and the players want to try to get into the playoffs. They do not tank.

4) It's hard for the Front Office to prohibit some players to play. Especially vets in their prime. You have to fight the coaching staff, the group of players, their agents, their media, the NBA antitank policy (when the intent is evident)... In the end, I wonder if the team can get better results without the vets. Especially Burks and Evan.

Your probably right. But you can limit minutes. the 3 game win streak is driving me nuts. As long as we have top 5 in this draft we would be ok. But not looking good. Unless we get some luck. Maybe we are finally due. At this point I think Ivey is out hoping for Sharpe.

We weren't going to catch Indiana anyway. At the very best we could've caught Sacramento for 6th, and I have zero qualms about dropping from 6th to 9th (where we currently sit) given the progress we've seen from RJ and our kids.

Our best chance to contend for a title this decade is if RJ becomes a viable title-caliber #2 that some title-caliber #1 can team up with; whether through FA, trade, or the draft...and RJ took a much bigger step in that direction than I was expecting, so for me, this season is a win regardless of what happens to our tank.

Especially since the best pick you can guarantee is 5th, anything better than that is in the lotto gods' hands.

[Richard4444]

I think and i'm far from an expert who runs a team. Is pack it in when its a lost season, play hard for wins when there is a chance. This is a lost season. I'm pretty confident Jaden Ivey, Jabari Smith and Chet will all be allstar level players. We should have stopped trying to win the minute the allstar break ended and stayed in tank mode. That's 3 of the top 5 players in this draft. Getting one of them would be doable.

We do the same thing next year. if by the allstar break we are not looking good you accept its a lost season.

Problem is we never do that.

Around Allstar break, I already gave up the season too. But, tanking was a tough option.

1) The odds to get a Top3 player were very small by then. A lot of teams way fewer victories than us.

2) It looks like we did not have good offers for our vets.

3) The coaching staff and the players want to try to get into the playoffs. They do not tank.

4) It's hard for the Front Office to prohibit some players to play. Especially vets in their prime. You have to fight the coaching staff, the group of players, their agents, their media, the NBA antitank policy (when the intent is evident)... In the end, I wonder if the team can get better results without the vets. Especially Burks and Evan.

Your probably right. But you can limit minutes. the 3 game win streak is driving me nuts. As long as we have top 5 in this draft we would be ok. But not looking good. Unless we get some luck. Maybe we are finally due. At this point I think Ivey is out hoping for Sharpe.

First, our coaching is Thibs. He does not believe in minutes restriction.

Second, we are not overtanking Indiana and Portland. Also will be tough to beat Sacramento. We are getting 7-12 pick this year (assuming we do not get lucky in the lottery). Most probably we will get 8th or 9th pick to keep the tradition alive.

[dakomish23]

DAL offers Brunson S&T for their first back / bum ass vet salary filler. Yay or nay? I’m assuming it’s going to be somewhere in the 4/72-4/80 range.

I’d have rather massively overpaid for someone like Haliburton, but we didn’t (and maybe couldn’t who knows). So I’d probably do this. Even if we draft Ty Ty. He’ll be movable down the line if we need to.

Watch on YouTube

[thebuzzardman]

DAL offers Brunson S&T for their first back / bum ass vet salary filler. Yay or nay? I’m assuming it’s going to be somewhere in the 4/72-4/80 range.

I’d have rather massively overpaid for someone like Haliburton, but we didn’t (and maybe couldn’t who knows). So I’d probably do this. Even if we draft Ty Ty. He’ll be movable down the line if we need to.

Watch on YouTube

I'd rather another season of Burks playing 38 mpg at PG

[dakomish23]

DAL offers Brunson S&T for their first back / bum ass vet salary filler. Yay or nay? I’m assuming it’s going to be somewhere in the 4/72-4/80 range.

I’d have rather massively overpaid for someone like Haliburton, but we didn’t (and maybe couldn’t who knows). So I’d probably do this. Even if we draft Ty Ty. He’ll be movable down the line if we need to.

Watch on YouTube

I'd rather another season of Burks playing 38 mpg at PG

I think you'll like him. Nice and boring and consistent.

[thebuzzardman]

DAL offers Brunson S&T for their first back / bum ass vet salary filler. Yay or nay? I’m assuming it’s going to be somewhere in the 4/72-4/80 range.

I’d have rather massively overpaid for someone like Haliburton, but we didn’t (and maybe couldn’t who knows). So I’d probably do this. Even if we draft Ty Ty. He’ll be movable down the line if we need to.

Watch on YouTube

I'd rather another season of Burks playing 38 mpg at PG

I think you'll like him. Nice and boring and consistent.

I'm a Brunson fan. I'm just making fun of the posters that turn their nose up at him. Sure, I don't think it's awesome to pay him 20 million, but I think he's solid.

[dakomish23]

I'd rather another season of Burks playing 38 mpg at PG

I think you'll like him. Nice and boring and consistent.

I'm a Brunson fan. I'm just making fun of the posters that turn their nose up at him. Sure, I don't think it's awesome to pay him 20 million, but I think he's solid.

Same. And I wouldn't stop shopping for PGs should we get him. If we can get a better guy, why not have 48 minutes of really good PG play after the zero we've had for decades?

[thebuzzardman]

I think you'll like him. Nice and boring and consistent.

I'm a Brunson fan. I'm just making fun of the posters that turn their nose up at him. Sure, I don't think it's awesome to pay him 20 million, but I think he's solid.

Same. And I wouldn't stop shopping for PGs should we get him. If we can get a better guy, why not have 48 minutes of really good PG play after the zero we've had for decades?

Exactly.

[moocow007]

If you look at the best teams in the nba usually the have extremely high salaries and lower salaries and that is the winning formula. No one but your best players should ever be over 10 million. We have a ton of these midrange salaries for 2nd tier players. That leaves us with no room for star max players and smaller salaries for developmental projects. Look at GS besides Wiggins everyone getting big bucks deserves it. Look at Philly, Look at Brooklyn. Brunson will just add to our horrible practice of overpaying people who don't move the meter.

So, what is the choice? Waiting for a superstar savior (from FA or from the draft)? Trade a lot of crap assets and low picks for a young superstar?

To get a superstar via FA, you have to show them that the Knicks can be a winner.

To get a superstar via trades, you have to stockpile assets for a future trade. Brunson can be an asset in a future trade. I know he can be a hard-to-move contract if he does not develop. But this is a risky business. 25 years old hardworking and efficient players tend to develop. I like our odds. Getting good players on good contracts is a good path.

Getting a superstar from the draft is a crapshoot outside Top 4 picks. Especially in weak drafts. Besides, you have to be really awful.

The Knicks had 2 choices from my POV. Both choices were based on realizing, after the Hawks series, that they could not stand pat and expect to do anything. Choice one was to rebuild (what the majority wanted). Choice two was to add more serious talent to help Randle (see Hawks series). This FO? They decided that this team was for real and spent all their cap space bringing back basically the same group of guys for contracts that no one else was going to likely give them and lock themselves in on the downward spiraling treadmill.

[bleedblue3303]

If you look at the best teams in the nba usually the have extremely high salaries and lower salaries and that is the winning formula. No one but your best players should ever be over 10 million. We have a ton of these midrange salaries for 2nd tier players. That leaves us with no room for star max players and smaller salaries for developmental projects. Look at GS besides Wiggins everyone getting big bucks deserves it. Look at Philly, Look at Brooklyn. Brunson will just add to our horrible practice of overpaying people who don't move the meter.

So, what is the choice? Waiting for a superstar savior (from FA or from the draft)? Trade a lot of crap assets and low picks for a young superstar?

To get a superstar via FA, you have to show them that the Knicks can be a winner.

To get a superstar via trades, you have to stockpile assets for a future trade. Brunson can be an asset in a future trade. I know he can be a hard-to-move contract if he does not develop. But this is a risky business. 25 years old hardworking and efficient players tend to develop. I like our odds. Getting good players on good contracts is a good path.

Getting a superstar from the draft is a crapshoot outside Top 4 picks. Especially in weak drafts. Besides, you have to be really awful.

The Knicks had 2 choices from my POV. Both choices were based on realizing, after the Hawks series, that they could not stand pat and expect to do anything. Choice one was to rebuild (what the majority wanted). Choice two was to add more serious talent to help Randle (see Hawks series). This FO? They decided that this team was for real and spent all their cap space bringing back basically the same group of guys for contracts that no one else was going to likely give them and lock themselves in on the downward spiraling treadmill.

I def agree but I think waiting one year and having the money to throw at Beal, Lavine, or Harden to play with RJ, Randle and lets say a top 5 pick from tanking. Sounds like a much better option and a very fast rebuild. Now I know there's no guarantee any of those players would have came but I think worth the chance and a much better option than what we did.

[Richard4444]

So, what is the choice? Waiting for a superstar savior (from FA or from the draft)? Trade a lot of crap assets and low picks for a young superstar?

To get a superstar via FA, you have to show them that the Knicks can be a winner.

To get a superstar via trades, you have to stockpile assets for a future trade. Brunson can be an asset in a future trade. I know he can be a hard-to-move contract if he does not develop. But this is a risky business. 25 years old hardworking and efficient players tend to develop. I like our odds. Getting good players on good contracts is a good path.

Getting a superstar from the draft is a crapshoot outside Top 4 picks. Especially in weak drafts. Besides, you have to be really awful.

The Knicks had 2 choices from my POV. Both choices were based on realizing, after the Hawks series, that they could not stand pat and expect to do anything. Choice one was to rebuild (what the majority wanted). Choice two was to add more serious talent to help Randle (see Hawks series). This FO? They decided that this team was for real and spent all their cap space bringing back basically the same group of guys for contracts that no one else was going to likely give them and lock themselves in on the downward spiraling treadmill.

I def agree but I think waiting one year and having the money to throw at Beal, Lavine, or Harden to play with RJ, Randle and lets say a top 5 pick from tanking. Sounds like a much better option and a very fast rebuild. Now I know there's no guarantee any of those players would have came but I think worth the chance and a much better option than what we did.

The odds for Beal, Harden, and Lavine coming to New York to play with RJ and Randle are almost zero. They can play for real contenders and for more money.

[Chanel Bomber]

My issue with a Jalen Brunson signing is that it seems predicated on the idea that we have pieces to build around (RJ, Cam or Randle depending on who you talk to).

We don't.

Simply adding Brunson alone does nothing for this franchise. It just adds salary on the books for a decent player who doesn't move the needle. That's how you build a treadmill team.

The franchise needs to pivot completely. Brunson could be part of those plans, and a nice addition to a roster that is overhauled, but not this current core.

[dakomish23]

So, what is the choice? Waiting for a superstar savior (from FA or from the draft)? Trade a lot of crap assets and low picks for a young superstar?

To get a superstar via FA, you have to show them that the Knicks can be a winner.

To get a superstar via trades, you have to stockpile assets for a future trade. Brunson can be an asset in a future trade. I know he can be a hard-to-move contract if he does not develop. But this is a risky business. 25 years old hardworking and efficient players tend to develop. I like our odds. Getting good players on good contracts is a good path.

Getting a superstar from the draft is a crapshoot outside Top 4 picks. Especially in weak drafts. Besides, you have to be really awful.

The Knicks had 2 choices from my POV. Both choices were based on realizing, after the Hawks series, that they could not stand pat and expect to do anything. Choice one was to rebuild (what the majority wanted). Choice two was to add more serious talent to help Randle (see Hawks series). This FO? They decided that this team was for real and spent all their cap space bringing back basically the same group of guys for contracts that no one else was going to likely give them and lock themselves in on the downward spiraling treadmill.

I def agree but I think waiting one year and having the money to throw at Beal, Lavine, or Harden to play with RJ, Randle and lets say a top 5 pick from tanking. Sounds like a much better option and a very fast rebuild. Now I know there's no guarantee any of those players would have came but I think worth the chance and a much better option than what we did.

I agree with your premise but they’re not going to tank or even go full youth movement.

I’d love an actual rebuilding year where they play the kids and live with the results. Then go big fish hunting.

So we’re forced to just measure the signing VS whats out there and how it will fit with our lineup. Seems like mostly positive to me, assuming we don’t break the bank. We are desperate for shooting & scoring & play making & leadership