OT: 4 Cops Arrested in Breonna Taylor murder

[8516knicks]

Perhaps it is an honest answer to say one does not know since he operates outside the normal boundaries of reason.

But we live in an age of cowardice where people are cowed into silence by intimidation and the spectre of domestic terrorists hunting them down for speaking the truth about MAGA icons.

I don’t watch TV any longer so I’ll skip on the generalizations about the current state of televised MSM.

What I did witness is all of the larger TV networks have been watering down their coverage even since they discovered in 2015 the bottom line cash value of keeping Trump propped up as a credible politician.

Only the hosts on MSNBC seemed to buck that trend, but CNN fell deep into the both-sides talking head game and it ruined that network as a meaningful counterpoint to a propaganda network like Fox.

At this stage of the game, post January 6th, for anyone to say they don’t know why Trump would do anything venal is just cowardly. We all know Trump is capable of any crime including smothering his daughter to death with a pillow if he knew it would keep him out of prison.

Take any assumption about Trump and treble the worst outcome and you will usually land close to the actual crimes committed. The man is a lifelong criminal who was emboldened by holding the most powerful position on the planet. Not knowing why he’d steal classified information is just ducking bullets from his followers, but it sure is not truthful. Everyone honest knows Trump is a thief.

******************
"What I did witness is all of the larger TV networks have been watering down their coverage even since they discovered in 2015 the bottom line cash value of keeping Trump propped up as a credible politician. "

I've been pondering this effect. He remains the single most reliable and strong EYEBALL attractor in the world.

And as our economic pie has greatly expanded in since the '70s only to see just about all of it raked off at the top, what seems to be left are distractions to lead away from the Bernie Sanders reality to a world where sports stars strike over $100M contracts and everyone has a "channel" and wants to be the KARDASHIANS (2nd to Trump in eyeballs, apparently). IT's the ROman bread and circuses (and lions) all over again.

The French saw this coming with THE AGE OF THE SPECTACLE. We see it in Marvel movies where people go for the CGI over story. The modern mythmaking machine probably started in my awareness was as a kid seeing the MEAN JOE GREEN commercial (he's probably a good guy, just the crafting of it was blatantly obvious an attempt at making a myth).

Now the network BUILD UPs to a game (those short ESPN or NBA or NFL 30 sec spots announcing an upcoming game) in its short powerful mini-commercials seems to overwhelm most games impact in reality. And by a LOT not a little. Those short spots are loaded with SENSATION.

Now conflict is driven to the max to attract eyeballs. The byproduct are fools like the recent mass murder shooters (including Rittenhouse).

I don't know what might cure it. A War, civil or nuclear? A Depression?

All I know is they'll have to pry my space laser from my cold dead hands!

Not sure what you mean by curing spectacle. Calamity does not tend to drive people further away from escapism. Usually it is the opposite.

Cause and Effect needs to be deconstructed to address massive macro-economic inequities and global survival issues, but spectacle tends to numb the mind to cause and direct it to dwelling on effect. Effects disconnected from cause are phenomena, not intellectual input.

Getting lost in spectacle is not about discourse, but consumption patterns. This mostly generates reactivity, but not reflection. If we only consume, but cease to communicate meaningfully, then the spectacle will dictate.

The antidote to myopic self-interest is education. Scandinavian countries are good at instilling community as a value. I don't really expect that to transfer well to the American mind where tribalism is less about community than about bonding over common enemies. Those enemies are products of spectacle engineering. Fear is the base emotion manipulated to focus the spectacle driven herd to focus on the chosen target.

*****
I kind of went fast and loose with things since it's a Knicks' message board not a Baudrillard one. Today is the ultimate Society of the Spectacle that Du Bord got from Baudrillard.

As Jaron Lanier (and he should know being so deep in Silicon Valley and A.I.) has said, we're in an ATTENTION economy where getting eyeballs on u is all that counts. He thinks WE SHOULD GET PAID from FACEBOOK and others for it! Eyeballs = consumption.

But as far as cause and effect, we are now in a system dynamical age not a mechanical age like through most of the 20th Century. Things are more complicated. Russel Ackoff (U of Penn) gives a great history of the change on youtube.

I sort of differ in the fact calamity solely encourages escapism. It depends on the level and immediacy of the situation. If we get in a 1930's style depression (yes that had movies etc. for people to take a load of their mind for a time) but it also fostered a strong union movement, social security, medicare (eventually at the tail end), etc.

And needing an army to fight WW2 lots of ethnicities blended into a team working toward a common goal.

And when they got out the head of the Republican party happened to be the General who headed the war effort.

And even Republicans couldn't stiff the new vets so they got the G.I.Bill, etc.

And we had the fairest economic split before or since.

It's about the money as Bernie tried to tell us. Make the split fairer and everything else kind of works its way out.

[HarthorneWingo]

this is derailed, but i'm surprised by the civility. may it long continue. we're all better for it.

I heard someone say it was Clyde's fault. But I ain't no snitch.

Whatever works. Y’all are brilliant people and good things happen when we operate in good faith.

We get to like… learn from one another and grow and humanize and ****.

But you are the Sensei

[Luv those Knicks]

That's true for single issue voters and the two party system takes advantage of single issue voters to be sure, but a lot of people who aren't single issue voters (I'm not a single issue voter) see the two parties as very different.

Totally rational perspective. I see certain issues as sort of making other moot. E.g. if you are going to use the government to arbitraily steal my money without due process any minor issues around business freedom is moot. All our back and forth on business taxes is moot if you can arbitrarily shut my business down and prevent an entire group of people from soliciting me based on un scientific un needed authoritarian policies (recovered healthy covid patients not being able to enter a NY bagel shop without their papers).

I did a little reading up on this, and this is just bunk. Yes, Rand Paul did draft a bill, called the Justice for Breanna Taylor act" and yes, it died in congress, but it's a fair question that occasionally, a no knock warrant might be the thing to do - against an armed to the teeth terrorist group for example . . . knock knock . . . what could possibly go wrong there?

The Democrats are the ones supporting a police reform bill that the Republicans are almost certainly going to oppose, again, pointing to the differences between the parties.

read more here if you don't believe me:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/s3955

You proved my point. They just took the no knock warrant and wouldn't pass it unless they added a bunch of other things that are divisive because of politics. The 2 parties agreed no knock warrants, especially related to drugs are both ineffective and disproportionate punish poor and minority Americans. Instead it got filled and bloated by horse trading for other stuff that the parties disagreed on and we got the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act of 2021, which died in congress. It added 20 other things, and got renamed to a more democrat platform. The same no knock is still in there, but god forbid a dirty white republican get credit! Same words. Both parties agreed and the public overwhelmingly agrees. They refused to pass it. And it goes both ways and happens countless times.

a LOT of democratic voters are fine with term limits. I'm less upset about this point than many, but I wouldn't have a problem with it if term limits was implemented.

I never said democratic voters weren't in favor of it. For the vast majority of my life I have been a democratic voter. I posted my history.

That's a bit much and you are sounding very much like a life long republican, maybe pretending to be a libertarian, when you write things like this.

A Clinton era democrat is a Republican now, so maybe in a sense you are right. I'm not pretending anything, I have positions on issues, that's pretty much it. Then I'll go (possibly) vote. I don't consider myself anything anymore which is true for a huge swath of Americans. Only 16% of the country thinks the government is doing a good job.

Very few to practically no democrats in Washington call the police corrupt or racist. Asking for gun legislation saves lives, it doesn't prevent self defense. The only gun law that (maybe) reduces crime - maybe, is carry laws, which a lot of individuals - myself included, are uncomfortable with. Guns in the home really don't deter crime.

You're covering so many complex subjects in your paragraph above, it's hard to address, but it certainly isn't damming testimony against democrats as you claim it to be. Bill Clinton did pass drug crime laws, which he's expressed strong regret over. The best weapon against drug violence is legalization . . . even the hard stuff. Tough call. These are not simple issues.

Gun legislation hasn't proven to save lives and there are infinite examples of the strictest gun laws producing the most violent areas, this is of course because it's other policies that are generating a culture of violence (drug laws leading to unjust mass incarceration, mass exodus of middle class mid skill jobs, etc.). Even more absurd is the rate at which DAs actually prosecute the laws already on the books. They're dismissed in droves. The left wants more laws but the (mostly democrat in cities) DAs dont prosecute the existing small dunk gun possession charges. They want gun laws as a platform to get elected, not to stop gun violence. Otherwise the focus would be on ending the war on drugs, which is the source of almost all gun violence in cities. Legal gun owners, especially when suicide (a mental health and social issue) is removed commit a statistically irrelevant amount of gun crime. Handguns are vastly more impactful in gun violence but aSsAulT rIfLE is scarier and gets more votes.

It's interesting that you would call them "unneeded vaccines". Do you really think democrats are pushing un-needed vaccines?

Asking a healthy 23 year old who had Covid to get an EUA mRNA vaccine with no accretive gain in IGG or IGA levels is literally the scientific definition of unneeded. The CDC finally conceded, but places like Canada still want to die on this hill. The vaccines were absolutely necessary, and were a scientific achievement, they are effective as proven by the semiquant ab tests used in the abbreviated trial. It was an authoritarian over reach to require them to enter a bagel store. It's my store. F-u-c-k you. In the end now, they've quietly shut up because it's not popular and we've got elections. The people calling to vaccinate otherwise healthy 6 year olds with no comorbidities are ghouls. 5 years from now, fine. Or 8 years of trial use as in the traditional vaccines. We'll actually have long term data on how they effect the human body.

You can get covid twice.

OK. With or without the vaccine you can get it multiple times. That's not even close to the threshold for government impelled medical treatment. Especially at the case fatality rate for an otherwise healthy person.

You get a vaccine to stop the spread of a virus that you mgiht catch or might be a carrier for.

Wow. I didn't think there was anyone left on this hill. You get a vaccine to produce an antibody response. The end. If your body has a good immune response it's indistinguishable form the vaccine because all the vaccine does is trick you body into thinking it had the virus. If this was your goal then the government should be monitoring immunity levels via antibody testing. Why didn't that happen? Follow the money. Nobody is getting an EUA vaccine who has higher median Igg an Iga levels than were shown in the clinical trials. It's literally risk for no gain. Antibodies aren't a gas tank, they aren't ablative. So if we had a real picture of how many had already recovered we wouldn't have been able to pay off our big pharma masters.

Trump's team DID pursue due process. They just got laughed out of court. Gore had a case. That's why the supreme court heard it.

Stacy Abrams didn't break any laws or insight any armed riots and unlike Trump, she probably wins a fair election.

Incite? Yes and he might go to jail or face charges. I hope he does.

Lol, so her election was unfair and wasn't proven in court but the orange turds baseless claims of an unfair election were unfounded and also weren't proven in court? More partisan nonsense. You're just biased.

They are both election deniers, you just like one, and one did it on a larger platform. We'll find out if Trump broke laws. Neither conceded and both have claimed multiple times that they won.

Watch on YouTube

;t=1099s

Trump encouraging anarchy and intimidation to pressure officials to change an election.
Democratics encouraging anarchy and violence in the streets to pressure people to vote Trump out.

What does this even mean? Please give an example.

There are massive amounts of examples of Trump pressuring officials. Just look at Georgia. He was intimidating every state official he could to change results, recount, find votes.

There are 1000 examples of democrat/left leaning rhetoric encouraging people to fight, fight, fight, fight, confront, in the streets, etc. And to their credit, it worked. American was tired of constant violence, rioting, 180 days of sieging federal buildings in portland, business being burned and looted. The democrats got a ton of votes from moderates who just didn't want their businesses and cities burned as a result of an orange turd victory.

It's fairly obvious that you sit in the camp of republican/conservative. You may as well come clean because it's all over your posts.

I don't and don't really care what you call me. I'm pro-abortion and medical freedom and right to die, pro-end the drug war, anti-regime change war, pro-free speech, pro-gay marriage, pro-2nd amendment, pro-sane federal budget, anti-FED, anti-DEA/ATF and the other countless duplicative agencies, pro-amnesty for minor drug offenders, pro-secure border and pro-fast path legal immigration.

You're also not actually making good arguments. There's no comparing Trump's STILL - nearly 2 years later, calling the election stolen and putting people who worked in the election in danger in the process while riling up his base - you can't compare that to Stacy Abrams or Al Gore. Not if you're honest.

I didn't compare him to Gore favorably, I pointed out actually that Gore did the right thing. He went to court.

Stacey Abrams hasn't shut her mouth about losing for years. She's crying unfair, just like Trump. It's a smaller platform obviously.

You keep bringing him up assuming I think he's a human being? Why? I don't think I've said anything good about him. As long as we're labeling I think you have Trump derangement syndrome.

I'm not going to get into a long thing, I'm just going to say that if you oppose no knock warrents - or legislation that comes close to that, because occasionally, for armed and dangerous fugitives, a no-knock warrant makes sense, and it might be something we don't want to outlaw completely . . . then you're on the side of the democrats. Rand Paul knew his bill wouldn't pass. He didn't intend to pass legislation, just to draw attention. That's what Rand does. He's just about the talking points.

Stack Abrams is fighting for voter rights and you think she should "shut up" - you're clearly not paying attention to what's happening in the country, or you support making it harder for poor black people to vote in cities. 4 hour wait times in black neighborhoods to vote. Do you know how long my wait time to vote was? 1 minute.

As for vaccines, yes, vaccines create antibodies, which ALSO, stops the spread. How anybody could be anti-vaccine is a mystery to me. Are you really anti-vax? That's on par with being a flat earther or climate change denier.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I heard someone say it was Clyde's fault. But I ain't no snitch.

Whatever works. Y’all are brilliant people and good things happen when we operate in good faith.

We get to like… learn from one another and grow and humanize and ****.

Do u mean I should return the AR-15 and body armor I just got?

I didn’t say all that lol

I do wish we didn’t feel compelled to have them. But another conversation.

[nedleeds]

I'm not going to get into a long thing, I'm just going to say that if you oppose no knock warrents - or legislation that comes close to that, because occasionally, for armed and dangerous fugitives, a no-knock warrant makes sense, and it might be something we don't want to outlaw completely . . . then you're on the side of the democrats. Rand Paul knew his bill wouldn't pass. He didn't intend to pass legislation, just to draw attention. That's what Rand does. He's just about the talking points.

He may have known the dems would block it. But you played yourself again. If the side of the democrats is to oppose no knock warrants they would have passed it. But they aren't on anyones side but themselves, just like all politicians. If a politician can't take credit and garner votes it's not worth doing. The dems countered wanting to take credit for adding a bill that outlawed murder and "chokeholds".

Stack Abrams is fighting for voter rights and you think she should "shut up" - you're clearly not paying attention to what's happening in the country, or you support making it harder for poor black people to vote in cities. 4 hour wait times in black neighborhoods to vote. Do you know how long my wait time to vote was? 1 minute.

Buddy. I live in an 80% black zipcode in Atlanta. Georgia in 2018 had 2 week early voting while democratic bastion of freedom New York had none. They're full of ****. The national outrage is complete bull. There were long lines in more population dense areas for sure but we have

- long early vote period, with saturday mandatory and hours mandatory
- all of polling locations in my zips have free parking and public transportation stops
- all the inner city ones are also open on Sunday (the school and library ones)

Early voting and access to park/bus are the two biggest impediments to poor people voting. Because they work and often have transportation challenges. Georgia will have *16* early voting days in the Fall. Turn off Joy Reid for 5 minutes and read the bill.

Stacey Abrams should shut up about losing the election she lost just like the orange clown. It just makes her look like an election denying hypocrite. "WE WON". No you didn't. So shut up. You want to haggle over voting laws fine, but undermining the democratic process and not conceding isn't the way to do it.

As for vaccines, yes, vaccines create antibodies, which ALSO, stops the spread. How anybody could be anti-vaccine is a mystery to me. Are you really anti-vax? That's on par with being a flat earther or climate change denier.

Are you anti-reading?

The vaccines were absolutely necessary, and were a scientific achievement, they are effective as proven by the semiquant ab tests used in the abbreviated trial.

Nobody is getting an EUA vaccine who has higher median Igg an Iga levels than were shown in the clinical trials. It's literally risk for no gain. Antibodies aren't a gas tank, they aren't ablative.

The vaccines do exactly what they did in the trial. Which is exactly what your body does when it naturally recovers from Covid. Produces a level of Igg, Iga that correlates to things like age and overall immune system health. Do you think the vaccines put nanobots or magic pixie dust into people?

But keep labeling me like your cnn, fox, msnbc overlords.

[Luv those Knicks]

I'm not going to get into a long thing, I'm just going to say that if you oppose no knock warrents - or legislation that comes close to that, because occasionally, for armed and dangerous fugitives, a no-knock warrant makes sense, and it might be something we don't want to outlaw completely . . . then you're on the side of the democrats. Rand Paul knew his bill wouldn't pass. He didn't intend to pass legislation, just to draw attention. That's what Rand does. He's just about the talking points.

He may have known the dems would block it. But you played yourself again. If the side of the democrats is to oppose no knock warrants they would have passed it. But they aren't on anyones side but themselves, just like all politicians. If a politician can't take credit and garner votes it's not worth doing. The dems countered wanting to take credit for adding a bill that outlawed murder and "chokeholds".

You're not even addressing my points and you say I'm playing myself? You don't even know how to have a conversation.

If you think the Dems countered a chokehold bill - tell me what the bill is called and I'll check it out, but you're missing the point. Blocking all no-knock warrants is probably a bad bill because sometimes they are helpful. The democrats did the right thing. Rand Paul was just posing, which seems to be the only thing he ever does.

Stack Abrams is fighting for voter rights and you think she should "shut up" - you're clearly not paying attention to what's happening in the country, or you support making it harder for poor black people to vote in cities. 4 hour wait times in black neighborhoods to vote. Do you know how long my wait time to vote was? 1 minute.

Buddy. I live in an 80% black zipcode in Atlanta. Georgia in 2018 had 2 week early voting while democratic bastion of freedom New York had none. They're full of ****. The national outrage is complete bull. There were long lines in more population dense areas for sure but we have

- long early vote period, with saturday mandatory and hours mandatory
- all of polling locations in my zips have free parking and public transportation stops
- all the inner city ones are also open on Sunday (the school and library ones)

Early voting and access to park/bus are the two biggest impediments to poor people voting. Because they work and often have transportation challenges. Georgia will have *16* early voting days in the Fall. Turn off Joy Reid for 5 minutes and read the bill.

Stacey Abrams should shut up about losing the election she lost just like the orange clown. It just makes her look like an election denying hypocrite. "WE WON". No you didn't. So shut up. You want to haggle over voting laws fine, but undermining the democratic process and not conceding isn't the way to do it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/18/fact-check-partly-false-claim-stacey-abrams-2018-race/6318836002/

In 2018, Abrams ran for governor against Republican Brian Kemp, who at the time was Georgia’s secretary of state. As secretary of state, Kemp was in charge of running the state’s elections.

During his tenure in that role, he trimmed more than 1.4 million inactive voters, with low-income and minority Georgians most likely to have their registrations canceled, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Over 668,000 of those registrations were canceled in 2017. In the lead-up to the 2018 election, Georgia put 53,000 voter registrations on hold, the majority of them Black voters, for additional screening.

Stacy is making a fair point. You want her to shut up, but she's nothing like Trump. She has a point.

Are you anti-reading?



The vaccines do exactly what they did in the trial. Which is exactly what your body does when it naturally recovers from Covid. Produces a level of Igg, Iga that correlates to things like age and overall immune system health. Do you think the vaccines put nanobots or magic pixie dust into people?

But keep labeling me like your cnn, fox, msnbc overlords.

OK, I think I see what you mean. You mean that people who already had covid shouldn't be required to get the vaccine, as Biden ordered for all government workers.

The CDC agrees with Biden.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-if-already-had-covid

[nedleeds]

You're not even addressing my points and you say I'm playing myself? You don't even know how to have a conversation.

If you think the Dems countered a chokehold bill - tell me what the bill is called and I'll check it out, but you're missing the point. Blocking all no-knock warrants is probably a bad bill because sometimes they are helpful. The democrats did the right thing. Rand Paul was just posing, which seems to be the only thing he ever does.

Politican A introduces a bill to ban most drug related NK warrants. There is universal support. The other party votes it down. They then introduce a bill with other stuff so they can gain credit, because there is no political currency to be gained. I'm not sure I can dumb it down any more. This is because neither party cares about Breonna Taylor. They care about getting and staying elected. I hope it's clear now.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/18/fact-check-partly-false-claim-stacey-abrams-2018-race/6318836002/



Stacy is making a fair point. You want her to shut up, but she's nothing like Trump.

Lol. Sure. She's not an election denier, despite the video above. You are saying prove it in court for the orange clown, but she doesn't? Again, just say I love her I hate you and I don't care about election denial. At least you have a clear position.

OK, you've lost me. Why do you hate democrats on the covid vaccine again, because . . . .

It seems to be, Trump killed tens of thousands of people including Herman Caine, with his anti vaccine rhetoric. But you hate democrat's position on the vaccine.

Please explain, cause, honestly, you've lost me.

I can't grant you an Epidemiology degree over a message board, for that I'm sorry. If you don't understand my words above then that's my fault. As for anti-vaccine rhetoric again it's all who benefits.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/563771-guess-who-undermined-public-confidence-in-vaccines/

Leading up to the election as a political hedge the Dems undermined the vaccines because in a round about way via warpspeed Trump was "responsible" for them.

Trumps anti-vaccine rhetoric. Please.

Watch on YouTube

"They don't get nearly as sick", "I recommend", "I did", "The vaccines do work and they are effective", "They saved millions of people", "we saved tens of millions of lives"

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I *hate* ALL THESE POLITICIANS. They're all political ghouls. If you choose to just ignore it, that's your choice. They're all worthless.

[HarthorneWingo]

Mary Trump says that Kushner is an FBI informant on Donald.

https://www.salon.com/2022/08/15/mary-points-towards-jared-kushner-as-fbi-informant_partner/

[thebuzzardman]

Mary Trump says that Kushner is an FBI informant on Donald.

https://www.salon.com/2022/08/15/mary-points-towards-jared-kushner-as-fbi-informant_partner/

That would be odd considering he's pretty dirty as well.
Well, I guess to save his own ass.

I think Mary Trump just likes saying stuff that makes Trump extra paranoid.
Not that she didn't make some good points in her first book. After that, I think it's about getting him to flip out, and of course make some $

[Clyde_Style]

Mary Trump says that Kushner is an FBI informant on Donald.

https://www.salon.com/2022/08/15/mary-points-towards-jared-kushner-as-fbi-informant_partner/

That would be odd considering he's pretty dirty as well.
Well, I guess to save his own ass.

I think Mary Trump just likes saying stuff that makes Trump extra paranoid.
Not that she didn't make some good points in her first book. After that, I think it's about getting him to flip out, and of course make some $

I expected Kushner to flip a long time ago. When they arrested Tom Barrack that was the line in the sand. Ivanka too. They're both criminals and I think they resent the stupidity of daddy for making it so difficult to get away with the grifts they pulled off during their four years on the gravy train. We're talking about hundreds of millions, probably more if you count the bailout of 666 Fifth Ave. They'll save themselves for sure. And that doesn't mean Kushner won't be indicted too. He's a super criminal. But if he's cooperating he'll get leniency to some degree. He saw his father go to prison and he'll do whatever he can to avoid that.

[DOT]

If you guys want to talk about that stuff, head over to the CA board

Keep this one on topic please. If you have nothing to say about the Breonna Taylor murder, it doesn't belong here. And no, we're not gonna have a politics thread on this board.

[HarthorneWingo]

Mary Trump says that Kushner is an FBI informant on Donald.

https://www.salon.com/2022/08/15/mary-points-towards-jared-kushner-as-fbi-informant_partner/

That would be odd considering he's pretty dirty as well.
Well, I guess to save his own ass.

I think Mary Trump just likes saying stuff that makes Trump extra paranoid.
Not that she didn't make some good points in her first book. After that, I think it's about getting him to flip out, and of course make some $

But those are exactly the type of characters who the government gets to flip in order to make out its cases. I mean, they even use jailhouse snitches as witnesses.

If you want to convict the devil, sometimes you have to go to hell to get the witnesses.

[HarthorneWingo]

If you guys want to talk about that stuff, head over to the CA board

Keep this one on topic please. If you have nothing to say about the Breonna Taylor murder, it doesn't belong here. And no, we're not gonna have a politics thread on this board.

Jeff Van Gully - a Moderator on this very forum - already addressed this issue, supra, so we’re good here. Thanks. Bye.

[Pointgod]

Right … and the biggy that people seem to forget on voting day: JUDGES

Lots of woman of color have been appointed judges under Biden. It's a promise he has kept

Yes, and that's great but it's not was I was referring to exactly. I was referring to the the Trump vs. Hillary election where folks either voted third party or didn't vote at all simply because they weren't enthusiastic about Hillary and chose to stay home. That's what really hurt us because Trump ended up stacking the Supreme Court.

As much as I'd prefer a more robust progressive leadership, we have to be realistic when it comes to national elections and vote blue no matter who in the general. Yes, we can battle it out in the primaries but after that we need to come together, even if you have to hold your nose.

Never thought I’d see the day that Wingo would be a Centrist

[HarthorneWingo]

Lots of woman of color have been appointed judges under Biden. It's a promise he has kept

Yes, and that's great but it's not was I was referring to exactly. I was referring to the the Trump vs. Hillary election where folks either voted third party or didn't vote at all simply because they weren't enthusiastic about Hillary and chose to stay home. That's what really hurt us because Trump ended up stacking the Supreme Court.

As much as I'd prefer a more robust progressive leadership, we have to be realistic when it comes to national elections and vote blue no matter who in the general. Yes, we can battle it out in the primaries but after that we need to come together, even if you have to hold your nose.

Never thought I’d see the day that Wingo would be a Centrist

Ha, yeah well, you still haven’t and never will. But I tend to be pragmatic about these things when it comes to general elections. I voted for Hillary and Biden over Trump which was a no-brainer.

But I’m still rattling cages.

[Pointgod]

Yes, and that's great but it's not was I was referring to exactly. I was referring to the the Trump vs. Hillary election where folks either voted third party or didn't vote at all simply because they weren't enthusiastic about Hillary and chose to stay home. That's what really hurt us because Trump ended up stacking the Supreme Court.

As much as I'd prefer a more robust progressive leadership, we have to be realistic when it comes to national elections and vote blue no matter who in the general. Yes, we can battle it out in the primaries but after that we need to come together, even if you have to hold your nose.

Never thought I’d see the day that Wingo would be a Centrist

Ha, yeah well, you still haven’t and never will. But I tend to be pragmatic about these things when it comes to general elections. I voted for Hillary and Biden over Trump which was a no-brainer.

But I’m still rattling cages.

100% never stop, that’s how things get done.

[8516knicks]

If you guys want to talk about that stuff, head over to the CA board

Keep this one on topic please. If you have nothing to say about the Breonna Taylor murder, it doesn't belong here. And no, we're not gonna have a politics thread on this board.

What is the CA board? What does any of this have to do with California?

[8516knicks]

Yes, and that's great but it's not was I was referring to exactly. I was referring to the the Trump vs. Hillary election where folks either voted third party or didn't vote at all simply because they weren't enthusiastic about Hillary and chose to stay home. That's what really hurt us because Trump ended up stacking the Supreme Court.

As much as I'd prefer a more robust progressive leadership, we have to be realistic when it comes to national elections and vote blue no matter who in the general. Yes, we can battle it out in the primaries but after that we need to come together, even if you have to hold your nose.

Never thought I’d see the day that Wingo would be a Centrist

Ha, yeah well, you still haven’t and never will. But I tend to be pragmatic about these things when it comes to general elections. I voted for Hillary and Biden over Trump which was a no-brainer.

But I’m still rattling cages.

Should have been Bernie both times.

[Pointgod]

You're not even addressing my points and you say I'm playing myself? You don't even know how to have a conversation.

If you think the Dems countered a chokehold bill - tell me what the bill is called and I'll check it out, but you're missing the point. Blocking all no-knock warrants is probably a bad bill because sometimes they are helpful. The democrats did the right thing. Rand Paul was just posing, which seems to be the only thing he ever does.

Politican A introduces a bill to ban most drug related NK warrants. There is universal support. The other party votes it down. They then introduce a bill with other stuff so they can gain credit, because there is no political currency to be gained. I'm not sure I can dumb it down any more. This is because neither party cares about Breonna Taylor. They care about getting and staying elected. I hope it's clear now.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/18/fact-check-partly-false-claim-stacey-abrams-2018-race/6318836002/



Stacy is making a fair point. You want her to shut up, but she's nothing like Trump.

Lol. Sure. She's not an election denier, despite the video above. You are saying prove it in court for the orange clown, but she doesn't? Again, just say I love her I hate you and I don't care about election denial. At least you have a clear position.

OK, you've lost me. Why do you hate democrats on the covid vaccine again, because . . . .

It seems to be, Trump killed tens of thousands of people including Herman Caine, with his anti vaccine rhetoric. But you hate democrat's position on the vaccine.

Please explain, cause, honestly, you've lost me.

I can't grant you an Epidemiology degree over a message board, for that I'm sorry. If you don't understand my words above then that's my fault. As for anti-vaccine rhetoric again it's all who benefits.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/563771-guess-who-undermined-public-confidence-in-vaccines/

Leading up to the election as a political hedge the Dems undermined the vaccines because in a round about way via warpspeed Trump was "responsible" for them.

Trumps anti-vaccine rhetoric. Please.

Watch on YouTube

"They don't get nearly as sick", "I recommend", "I did", "The vaccines do work and they are effective", "They saved millions of people", "we saved tens of millions of lives"

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I *hate* ALL THESE POLITICIANS. They're all political ghouls. If you choose to just ignore it, that's your choice. They're all worthless.

The arguments that you make against Democrats only make sense if someone sees things in black and white without considering context.

I looked up the Ron Paul Justice for Breonna Taylor act and I didn’t see anything about only Democrats blocking the bill. Republicans controlled the Senate at the time, Mitch McConnell could have brought it up for a vote or removed the filibuster to bring it up for debate. Also Democrats have pushed for more substantial police reform which includes banning no knock warrants, but Republicans have refused to work with them and I do not see Rand Paul cosponsoring any of those bills.

https://time.com/6156590/breonna-taylor-no-knock-warrants/

You saying that Stacey Abrams is an election denier is just flat out wrong and false. These are her own words:

"I acknowledge that former Secretary of State Brian Kemp will be certified as the victor in the 2018 gubernatorial election," Abrams said, according to NPR. "But to watch an elected official who claims to represent the people in this state baldly pin his hopes for election on suppression of the people's democratic right to vote has been truly appalling."

She didn’t say the election was stolen like Trump and Republicans did, which is completely idiotic because Republicans got elected on those same ballots. She didn’t call for her supporters to commit violence or go around precincts asking to commit voter fraud which is everything Republicans and Trump attempted to do. She raised legitimate concerns that Kemp did voter purges in predominantly minority areas.

During his tenure in that role, he trimmed more than 1.4 million inactive voters, with low-income and minority Georgians most likely to have their registrations canceled, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Over 668,000 of those registrations were canceled in 2017. In the lead-up to the 2018 election, Georgia put 53,000 voter registrations on hold, the majority of them Black voters, for additional screening.

85,000 more voters were purged from rolls in the three months leading up to the election. Kemp has repeatedly denied he attempted to suppress the vote, USA TODAY previously reported.

Yes it’s shady as hell that 3 months before the election Kemp removed 85,000 voters in an election that Abrams only lost by 55,000 votes. There’s nothing wrong with pointing that out which is the opposite of the Republican assault on Democracy which is claiming country wide election fraud including states run by Republicans.

And the last thing about Democrats being antivaccine in just flat out false. There was no political hedge and there are multiple reports that debunk it. Vaccines work, vaccine mandates worked to reduce hospitalizations and deaths as well as slow the spread.

Here is what Harris actually said about vaccines:

Well, I think that’s going to be an issue for all of us. I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump. And it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he’s talking about. I will not take his word for it. He wants us to inject bleach. I — no, I will not take his word.

When asked by Bash if she would take Dr. Anthony Fauci’s word on whether the vaccine was safe, she added, “No, I think Dr. Fauci has proven, for anyone who’s been watching him for years and years, to put the public health of the American people as the highest priority in terms of his work and his reputation and his priority. Yes, I trust Dr. Fauci.”

During the October 2020 vice presidential debate, Harris categorically stated, “If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I’m not taking it.”

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/23/tiktok-posts/biden-harris-doubted-trump-covid-19-vaccines-not-v/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kamala-harris-refuse-trump-vaccine/

The Republican Party is the party that has antivaccine, anti science nut jobs in Congress, supported by liars in right wing media despite them being vaccinated.

I’ve seen a lot of your posts and your argument of “hating all politicians” is just a convenient excuse to repeat wing talking points. I never see you criticizing Republicans or the right wing or putting their depravity in the proper context. You just want to support Republicans and not feel bad about it.

[nedleeds]

The arguments that you make against Democrats only make sense if someone sees things in black and white without considering context.

Your vote is black or white because we don't have ranked choice voting. So even if you hate the candidate if you're a single issue voter you are locked in or if you vote let's say Libertarian you are incinerating your vote.

I looked up the Ron Paul Justice for Breonna Taylor act and I didn’t see anything about only Democrats blocking the bill. Republicans controlled the Senate at the time, Mitch McConnell could have brought it up for a vote or removed the filibuster to bring it up for debate. Also Democrats have pushed for more substantial police reform which includes banning no knock warrants, but Republicans have refused to work with them and I do not see Rand Paul cosponsoring any of those bills.

https://time.com/6156590/breonna-taylor-no-knock-warrants/

I said vote down, technically it 'died' meaning it never went to vote. So I misspoke there, but it died because despite it being bipartisan and having massive public support the parties (republican and democrat) have to both get theirs and take credit.

You saying that Stacey Abrams is an election denier is just flat out wrong and false. These are her own words:

"I acknowledge that former Secretary of State Brian Kemp will be certified as the victor in the 2018 gubernatorial election," Abrams said, according to NPR. "But to watch an elected official who claims to represent the people in this state baldly pin his hopes for election on suppression of the people's democratic right to vote has been truly appalling."

She didn’t say the election was stolen like Trump and Republicans did, which is completely idiotic because Republicans got elected on those same ballots. She didn’t call for her supporters to commit violence or go around precincts asking to commit voter fraud which is everything Republicans and Trump attempted to do. She raised legitimate concerns that Kemp did voter purges in predominantly minority areas.

During his tenure in that role, he trimmed more than 1.4 million inactive voters, with low-income and minority Georgians most likely to have their registrations canceled, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Over 668,000 of those registrations were canceled in 2017. In the lead-up to the 2018 election, Georgia put 53,000 voter registrations on hold, the majority of them Black voters, for additional screening.

85,000 more voters were purged from rolls in the three months leading up to the election. Kemp has repeatedly denied he attempted to suppress the vote, USA TODAY previously reported.

Yes it’s shady as hell that 3 months before the election Kemp removed 85,000 voters in an election that Abrams only lost by 55,000 votes. There’s nothing wrong with pointing that out which is the opposite of the Republican assault on Democracy which is claiming country wide election fraud including states run by Republicans.

She is an election denier.

https://youtu.be/H5sDMtFC6Oo?t=1099

You may not care. But she has said multiple times she won. In this instance "I do have one very affirmative statement to make ... we won". She never conceded. You can debate the merits of her claims just like you can with the orange clowns but she refused to concede. You say, "She didn’t say the election was stolen like Trump and Republicans did" -- I guess she didn't use the word stolen. If you want to die on that hill go for it. Trump is an election denier. Stacey Abrams is as well, and she did it without even being the incumbent.

And the last thing about Democrats being antivaccine in just flat out false. There was no political hedge and there are multiple reports that debunk it.

this ... is a separate claim from the below. I claimed they politicized it. They cast doubt on it, if it was associated and was delivered to market by Trump. She said, "if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I’m not taking it." meaning to me and anyone with ears that if Trump had won and put vaccine mandates in place via executive order she wouldn't take it. Even if you want to hedge what she said about Fauchi, she's casting doubt on the vaccines, just like lunatic right wingers.

Vaccines work, vaccine mandates worked to reduce hospitalizations and deaths as well as slow the spread.

This is a different issue and I've never claimed otherwise. My only quibble is you are conflating two different things. The vaccines do exactly what they proved they did in the EUA trial. The end. Nothing more or less. They trigger, in healthy enough people a measurable auto-immune response, measurable exactly as they were measured in the trial using very reliable anti-body tests. We may eventually get some 5 year data but we don't have it now.

Vaccine mandates haven't been proven in anyway shape or form reduce hospitalizations because they were applied to people who had already had covid. I am 100% against vaccine mandates and believe it's your body and your choice. We don't police other diseases that are all personal choice that destroy our health system far worse than covid. I'm also pro choice and pro right to die.

I’ve seen a lot of your posts and your argument of “hating all politicians” is just a convenient excuse to repeat wing talking points. I never see you criticizing Republicans or the right wing or putting their depravity in the proper context. You just want to support Republicans and not feel bad about it.

I actually don't feel bad that I'll be forced by the insane ineffective authoritarian policies of the far left to vote for Republican morons. I feel frustrated. I absolutely rip Republicans for all of their destructive failed policies, starting with the war on drugs, with Trump and Bushes utter catastrophe in limiting legal immigration, their lack of support for gay marriage (while hypocritically claiming they want the government out of their lives), their awful record on things like access to over the counter medications (morning after pill being the black pearl of intolerance), and previously during Bush/Chaney their constant regime change wars (now the policy of the Democrats).

You just have to label anybody who doesn't comply with all the talking points of the left as 'right wing' because labels are the lefts religion now.