PG: KNICKS OT Prayer Answered In Philly!!

[Reign23]

Cameron Payne. I am still not a big fan and wouldn't trust him in the playoffs, but he has played very well lately.
Has 6 points 2 assists 0 Turnovers and +1 in 7 minutes in the first half... just to get benched for the entire second half and OT.
And he is one of the few bench players that has at least a little of Thibs' trust. Just bananas.

[taikibansei]

Cameron Payne. I am still not a big fan and wouldn't trust him in the playoffs, but he has played very well lately.
Has 6 points 2 assists 0 Turnovers and +1 in 7 minutes in the first half... just to get benched for the entire second half and OT.
And he is one of the few bench players that has at least a little of Thibs' trust. Just bananas.

He'll never be ready for the playoffs if he doesn't get more playing time during the regular season. And that goes for the rest of the bench as well. I don't care if the result is a few more regular season losses; we need to see what we really have on that bench. (We also need our top-6 guys all healthy for the playoffs, which at this pace is not going to happen either....)

[snadler]

For the minutes police/thibs haters, my guess is you’d be happier if the knicks were 22-20 if it meant the starters averaged only 28-32 minutes a night, am I right?

[F N 11]

I saw some new help defense, switching, and effort.

[Spree2Houston]

Mikal low key the best playmaker in the starting lineup. It’s him and KAT

[GettinitDone]

For the minutes police/thibs haters, my guess is you’d be happier if the knicks were 22-20 if it meant the starters averaged only 28-32 minutes a night, am I right?

What does starters playing less/ bench playing more have anything to do with a worse record??

Using your theory, the Knicks (3 players in L's TOP 7 in mpg, and all starters in TOP 35, ALL STARTERS in TOP 10 in total minutes played) would have a better record than the Thunder (only 1 player in L's top 50 in mpg, only 3 players in top 100) and Cavs (NO player in L's top 75 in mpg, only 3 players in top 100).

But if you insist on using correlation between bench playing more/ less with a worse/ better record, it proves the bench playing more (Thunder and Cavs) results in a better record, not worse.

[GettinitDone]

Mikal low key the best pg in the starting lineup. It’s him and KAT

I've always said I prefer Mikal to be the point forward, not Josh as good as Josh has been. Our offense is just a lot better with Mikal having the ball more, it puts him on an aggressive mode, and when he's aggressive he scores and passes very well.

[taikibansei]

For the minutes police/thibs haters, my guess is you’d be happier if the knicks were 22-20 if it meant the starters averaged only 28-32 minutes a night, am I right?

Personally, I'd be fine with us being 24-18 if it meant that our starters weren't all leading the league in minutes played. And who knows, in addition to giving the starters more rest, maybe Huk, Payne, Kolek, etc. would get more opportunity to prove themselves--increasing their trade value if we decide not to keep them? Right now, the only known quantities on our team are the top-6 players, and I would rather not trade any of them. That said, you can't use bench players as trade bait if nobody has seen them play significant minutes in actual regular season games.

[LFGK]

I wonder if the sky is falling in Boston like it is in NY with them going 7-7 in their last 14. The Thibs stuff is getting really old. Everything is going to be fine

Can you dispute the facts that have been brought to the table by almost everyone here for the past 42 games? Just complaining about legitimate complaints accomplishes what exactly?

about Bridges at 39MPG? hart at 37.8MPG? OG at 36.6MPG? im sorry man im not entertaining the minutes police. great players, they f*cking play, Maxey is at 37.7 jokic 36.9 Booker and edwards at 36.6 tatum and durant at 36.3. You think Suns fans are complaining at an old KD playing minutes? people just look for something to complain about 3 extra minutes a game. F*cking joke, Mitch gets back and the minutes for everyone will go down 2 min or so and then we will find something else to complain about. Knick fans deserve Layde/IT/L Brown/P Jackson days I swear.

[cgmw]

For the minutes police/thibs haters, my guess is you’d be happier if the knicks were 22-20 if it meant the starters averaged only 28-32 minutes a night, am I right?

You are not right, not even close.

1) I don’t hate Thibs, I am incredibly impressed and grateful. However, any fool can see his methods exhaust players and tap out upper end potential.

2) Even if your assumption that more bench mins = more losses were correct (and you don’t know that it is), you’re not considering playoff timing. Would you rather have a 70 win regular season and get knocked out in Rd 2 or would you rather have a 50 win season and make it to the Finals?

The issue here is not performance in January. It’s performance in April and May. Visible burnout 40 games in with 60 games remaining between now and the Larry O’Brien trophy is not good. Thibs is trying to force Leon’s hand, but Leon isn’t holding any more cards. This franchise needs a Minutes Cop.

[GettinitDone]

I wonder if the sky is falling in Boston like it is in NY with them going 7-7 in their last 14. The Thibs stuff is getting really old. Everything is going to be fine

Can you dispute the facts that have been brought to the table by almost everyone here for the past 42 games? Just complaining about legitimate complaints accomplishes what exactly?

about Bridges at 39MPG? hart at 37.8MPG? OG at 36.6MPG? im sorry man im not entertaining the minutes police. great players, they f*cking play, Maxey is at 37.7 jokic 36.9 Booker and edwards at 36.6 tatum and durant at 36.3. You think Suns fans are complaining at an old KD playing minutes? people just look for something to complain about 3 extra minutes a game. F*cking joke, Mitch gets back and the minutes for everyone will go down 2 min or so and then we will find something else to complain about. Knick fans deserve Layde/IT/L Brown/P Jackson days I swear.

Great players play, but can you explain how leading MVP candidate SGA is at 34.4mpg, #33rd in mpg ??

The Thunder don't have to play their best player ALL OF FKIN 2nd HALF + OT to keep winning.

So you're great, we gonna keep playing you til your wheels fall off... !!???

[snadler]

For the minutes police/thibs haters, my guess is you’d be happier if the knicks were 22-20 if it meant the starters averaged only 28-32 minutes a night, am I right?

What does starters playing less/ bench playing more have anything to do with a worse record??

Using your theory, the Knicks (3 players in L's TOP 7 in mpg, and all starters in TOP 35, ALL STARTERS in TOP 10 in total minutes played) would have a better record than the Thunder (only 1 player in L's top 50 in mpg, only 3 players in top 100) and Cavs (NO player in L's top 75 in mpg, only 3 players in top 100).

But if you insist on using correlation between bench playing more/ less with a worse/ better record, it proves the bench playing more (Thunder and Cavs) results in a better record, not worse.

Are you really asking this question? Do you see the bench the cavs and OkC have currently compared to the knicks? Just because playera like Kolek and Huk dominate the G does not mean they would give consistently good minutes. Payne is a journeyman at best, the knicks really have 2 legit bench players, deuce and precious, deuce is coming off injury and finally had a good game and precious, and both played major minutes last night. The point is the same, if you take 7-8 minutes away from the starters they would not have the record they currently have

[DOT]

Are you really asking this question? Do you see the bench the cavs and OkC have currently compared to the knicks?

The OKC one is legit funny to me because they have a player in their rotation who's not only a rookie but was drafted after we took Dadiet

Also, do you see the bench OKC and Cleveland have? They're not that great, they're about what you should expect a bench to be, and if we can't even get a guy on Dean Wade's level, that's a real indictment of the FO.

[snadler]

For the minutes police/thibs haters, my guess is you’d be happier if the knicks were 22-20 if it meant the starters averaged only 28-32 minutes a night, am I right?

You are not right, not even close.

1) I don’t hate Thibs, I am incredibly impressed and grateful. However, any fool can see his methods exhaust players and tap out upper end potential.

2) Even if your assumption that more bench mins = more losses were correct (and you don’t know that it is), you’re not considering playoff timing. Would you rather have a 70 win regular season and get knocked out in Rd 2 or would you rather have a 50 win season and make it to the Finals?

The issue here is not performance in January. It’s performance in April and May. Visible burnout 40 games in with 60 games remaining between now and the Larry O’Brien trophy is not good. Thib’s is trying to force Leon’s hand, but Leon isn’t holding any more cards. Honestly, this franchise needs a Minutes Policeman.

These are all fair points, and I’ve said this before, this is not just a thibs decision, this is an organizational belief that winning every regular season is important, players and coaches and Leon have all bought into this, many teams do not take the regular season seriously at all, resting players on back to backs. One has not been proven is which path is best

[TKKnicks1]

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[GettinitDone]

For the minutes police/thibs haters, my guess is you’d be happier if the knicks were 22-20 if it meant the starters averaged only 28-32 minutes a night, am I right?

What does starters playing less/ bench playing more have anything to do with a worse record??

Using your theory, the Knicks (3 players in L's TOP 7 in mpg, and all starters in TOP 35, ALL STARTERS in TOP 10 in total minutes played) would have a better record than the Thunder (only 1 player in L's top 50 in mpg, only 3 players in top 100) and Cavs (NO player in L's top 75 in mpg, only 3 players in top 100).

But if you insist on using correlation between bench playing more/ less with a worse/ better record, it proves the bench playing more (Thunder and Cavs) results in a better record, not worse.

Are you really asking this question? Do you see the bench the cavs and OkC have currently compared to the knicks? Just because playera like Kolek and Huk dominate the G does not mean they would give consistently good minutes. Payne is a journeyman at best, the knicks really have 2 legit bench players, deuce and precious, deuce is coming off injury and finally had a good game and precious, and both played major minutes last night. The point is the same, if you take 7-8 minutes away from the starters they would not have the record they currently have

You're running a sprint in a marathon race, trying to outrun everyone at Lap 42, but there are 82 total laps, and there are still 40 laps to go... andddd.... YOU AIN'T EVEN FKIN LEADING.. running sprint and all!!

Other 2 guys (Thunder and Cavs) running marathon/ light running are IN FRONT OF YOU.

ANddd, are you sure Thibs is not playing the bench because they suck? Or is it they suck because Thibs is not playing them??? I think Huk and Kolek have shonw they can play, esp Huk with the shot blocking, he surely showed he's better than Sims. But Thibs gonna Thibs...

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[Guano]

Are you really asking this question? Do you see the bench the cavs and OkC have currently compared to the knicks?

The OKC one is legit funny to me because they have a player in their rotation who's not only a rookie but was drafted after we took Dadiet

Also, do you see the bench OKC and Cleveland have? They're not that great, they're about what you should expect a bench to be, and if we can't even get a guy on Dean Wade's level, that's a real indictment of the FO.

one of my favorite responses to this is "thibs sees them in practice" line. or how terrible they look when he plays them all together.

but, to your point about the front office failing to get dean wade's level bench players - that is where i'm at - either the front office is to blame for not having a decent bench(which i don't think we have) and not holding the coach accountable for playing them. they're allowing thibs to destroy the team.

[thebuzzardman]

Are you really asking this question? Do you see the bench the cavs and OkC have currently compared to the knicks?

The OKC one is legit funny to me because they have a player in their rotation who's not only a rookie but was drafted after we took Dadiet

Also, do you see the bench OKC and Cleveland have? They're not that great, they're about what you should expect a bench to be, and if we can't even get a guy on Dean Wade's level, that's a real indictment of the FO.

That's because Dadiet sucks and is raw and the OKC player is actually good.

[thebuzzardman]

I think Thibs is a maniac and should play the bench more but in the past, through all the "bad coaches" the Knicks have had, which so many on here blamed for a lot of the various reasons the Knicks sucked, in nearly every instance, like 99% of them, it turned out it was the players who sucked and it wasn't really the coaching.

Thibs is a dinosaur, his offensive isn't that creative, he doesn't adjust well to good opposing defensive coaches and he won't adjust his own defensive scheme to fit his players, but it can be also true the Knicks bench just isn't that good, and more importantly, the ceiling you see with the starters has a lot to do with the starters, because it's who they are.

Too many years posting on this forum and 99% of the time, it's the players.

[Context]

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Love this post...
Yeah Big Body will always torch Philly. College was a great time for him.
Nurse is such a baby for a grown man.
Hart is special. How many players in the league play at his level.
I love that moment where Josh and Jalen look at eachother...Reminds me of the simple games
we played when we were kids
And finally -the body can't function without the Hart.