[Camelo Thread Part 11] - Knicks make offer? Pg 82

[cgmw]

The NBA has been turning in record profits

Is this true? If so, how do you reconcile that with the supposed fact that many teams are losing money? I don't doubt for a second the owners being sheisty, but I'm also inclined to believe that they have genuine problems. The previous CBA was signed during a relative boon-time, while this one is on the heels of a major financial collapse and international recession. Something has to give.

I'm not saying MAX contracts will be $11 million, but I am saying that nobody here is qualified to speak to the truth of whether the owners really do mean business with a lockout and major restructuring of the CBA.

I've said it a hundred times in this thread, and I'll say it again. Carmelo Anthony should be very cautious about not signing an extension because the terms of a new CBA are anybody's guess. Is playing in Denver really that bad? Watch they make a run in the playoffs and Carmelo just signs the dotted line on the last possible day.

[GONYK]

The NBA has been turning in record profits

Is this true? If so, how do you reconcile that with the supposed fact that many teams are losing money. I don't doubt for a second the owners being sheisty, but I'm also inclined to believe that the previous CBA was signed during a relative boon-time. This one is on the heels of a major financial collapse and international recession.

I'm not saying MAX contracts will be $11 million, but I am saying that nobody here is qualified to speak to the truth of whether the owners really do mean business with a lockout and major restructuring of the CBA.

I've said it a hundred times in this thread, and I'll say it again. Carmelo Anthony should be very cautious about not signing an extension because the terms of a new CBA are anybody's guess.

Easy. Many teams are not losing money. They are just saying that they are.

[cgmw]

Easy. Many teams are not losing money. They are just saying that they are.

No offense, but unless you're an accountant for the NBA, you're simply not qualified to say that. Or are you relying on some data I don't know about?

[vallen]

The NBA has been turning in record profits

Is this true? If so, how do you reconcile that with the supposed fact that many teams are losing money. I don't doubt for a second the owners being sheisty, but I'm also inclined to believe that the previous CBA was signed during a relative boon-time. This one is on the heels of a major financial collapse and international recession.

I'm not saying MAX contracts will be $11 million, but I am saying that nobody here is qualified to speak to the truth of whether the owners really do mean business with a lockout and major restructuring of the CBA.

I've said it a hundred times in this thread, and I'll say it again. Carmelo Anthony should be very cautious about not signing an extension because the terms of a new CBA are anybody's guess.

Easy. Many teams are not losing money. They are just saying that they are.

Link ???

[K_ick_God]

The NBA and its Owners are also asking for salary reductions on existing contracts as well as new ones. They certainly arent worried about what Rudy Gay makes as opposed to what Melo makes. Or Eddy Curry apparently. They want them all to take Pay Cuts.

And what gives the Players Union the best chance of winning the battle against salary reductions. The ones with Guaranteed Contracts ? Or the ones without any Contracts ??

The NBA wants them all to take paycuts, exactly! lol ... You just admitted why if the NBA gets its way, Melo will not lose a dime.

But ... if they can't get across-the-board paycuts, they won't allow a system that pays Rudy Gay $18M and Melo $13M.

You are simplistically making like this is all about the league shaving every dollar they can shave. But CBA negotiations are about finding a workable system that does not lead to an unjustifiable imbalance or future labor problems. You're either missing that part or ignoring it because you don't want to backpedal.

Ask yourself ... if the league was just about cutting costs in any manner possible, and didn't care about a balanced system, then why are they even seeking to cut all contracts? Why not just try to cut all the costs they can from the guys without contracts?

That WOULD be easier as you say. Not having a contract does make it easier for the league to go after those costs. As you say, easier to change rules on contracts that don't exist. So why isn't the league going after all their savings from the players that don't have contracts? That's the easier negotiating position.

Given that, can you explain why they are trying to cut all contracts across the board?

They can save just as much by cutting Melo to a $10M max next year and keeping Gay at $18M as they could from cutting both Melo and Gay to $14M each.

Same exact savings for the league in both cases. But easier to cut Melo's future contract to $10M than to cut Gay's current contract to $14M. So why doesn't the league just try to hold Melo at $10M and keep Gay at $18M ... and not worry about Gay at all because he's already got a contract?

Why are they starting off on the theory that they will cut everybody across the board. Care to explain how that matches your statement that "The league doesn't care what Melo makes compared to Gay"? I'm all ears.

[Knicks_Fan2]

Chad Ford is now obviously beating the Melo to the Nets drum. How many more times can this guy be wrong? Oh and just for KnicksGod, he does claim that Melo could lose 40 mm in the new CBA lol.

chadfordinsider Chad Ford
Column: Why Melo-to-the-Nets talks aren't dead -- in the NBA there is no deal until there's a deal http://es.pn/efxmZJ (insider)

[kingmalaki]

The only concern here IMO is if Denver decides to keep Melo past the deadline. That's it! 
The Nets are out.  Read all of the quotes from Prov and King.  He is not going back on that.  He would lose all credibility from his players and future free agents.  It's just not worth it at this point for the Nets. UNLESS Melo wants to play there and we know that he doesn't!

That leaves them with the rental market. Which is just part of that equation... Why? because teams that would rent him would have to believe that with his addition it gives them a chance to CONTEND for a championship. How many of those teams REALISTICALLY exist? Especially when you factor in that if they are on the west Denver would be a foolish to trade him there. For starters, their fan base would be pissed. And of the teams that become "contenders" where are their 2011 picks going to fall on the draft? In the best case scenario not much higher than ours.  That makes us competitive on picks. And these so called teams that become contenders how much NBA ready young talent can they give back without reducing their chances of contending with Melo? Again, best case? two players. And finally how many of those teams have the "expiring salary" and additional savings that is needed to be competitive with our offer? Not many...

Sum it all up and put it into context... One of our young players, Curry, Azu(3mill in savings), two #1 and made Smith or Balkman and we have a deal...

The Rockets are interested in Melo and we won't be a contender with him.

I know you keep saying that but do you know what type of deal you guys are offering?  Your GM didn't want to extend Brooks or Battier because of the CBA so I doubt he is going to take a bad contract from Denver for a rental.  Would you trade Yao's expiring a pick or a young player because we can and will beat that offer.  What offer can you put out there to rent him that we can't beat?

I don't think either one of us can list whose offer is better because we have no clue if Denver is interested in the players on the NY or Houston roster. And the only reason I mention that is because we don't know if they value Hill more than Gallo, for example. We can argue back and forth over the value of our players but who knows what Denver wants? For example, can you or I conclude how interested they are in Patrick Patterson, who has looked very good since he started playing and is shooting 66%, with a solid jumper?

I think all expirings (Jeffries, Battier, Hayes, Yaos which basically pays for itself), all upcoming picks (ours and yours), all young and redundant players (Hill, Patterson, Lee, Budinger, Williams) and all the TEs to take back salary are in play. I wouldn't be surprised if the Rockets wanted to take Birdman for example. I have no clue how Morey would combine those assets, but I do think he can put an offer on par or better than NYs on the table if he wanted to. I can't guage how badly he wants Melo but the potential for a trade is there and all signs point to us being interested whether he extends or not. 

Maybe he is just bluffing to try to get in on sending Melo to NY?

[K_ick_God]

Chad Ford is now obviously beating the Melo to the Nets drum. How many more times can this guy be wrong? Oh and just for KnicksGod, he does claim that Melo could lose 40 mm in the new CBA lol.

chadfordinsider Chad Ford
Column: Why Melo-to-the-Nets talks aren't dead -- in the NBA there is no deal until there's a deal http://es.pn/efxmZJ (insider)

There might be a shred of validity to his theory if Melo was ready to go to New Jersey.

Melo

does

not

want

to

play

for

the

Nets.

Everybody at ESPN needs to accept that it's over.

[Starksfor3]

Chad Fraud...SMH.

[god shammgod]

kobe on melo

When you look at Melo’s situation – he likes the city of Denver, but knows that going to a bigger market could benefit him …

Kobe: It has nothing to do with a bigger market. It’s about winning. If you want to keep a player here, make the right decisions. Make the right choices with personnel, get a team around a guy to help you win, and there would be no problems.

They have cap space this summer, so one could argue that if he wants to be in a situation to win, then Denver would be one of the best situations.

Kobe: Then Denver will make the right decisions, bring in the right personnel and he’ll stick around. It’s not rocket science. …. I know for me, it’s all about winning. In my situation, we weren’t spending the money to get players – they had me playing around with Smush Parker. Until they decided they wanted to make the necessary sacrifices financially to get a team that’s competitive, I didn’t want to be (with the Lakers). It’s as simple as that.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/nuggets/201 ... ee-agency/

basically this is denver's own fault. you traded camby away for nothing to save money and your owner still thinks he's paying too much. how do you expect to keep top talent if you don't give them a real chance to win. even if you wanted to spend money, which you don't, there's no free agents to get. he's not staying. and he's not going to the nets. it's about winning. got it. good.

[Jitpal]

The NBA has been turning in record profits

Is this true? If so, how do you reconcile that with the supposed fact that many teams are losing money? I don't doubt for a second the owners being sheisty, but I'm also inclined to believe that they have genuine problems. The previous CBA was signed during a relative boon-time, while this one is on the heels of a major financial collapse and international recession. Something has to give.

I'm not saying MAX contracts will be $11 million, but I am saying that nobody here is qualified to speak to the truth of whether the owners really do mean business with a lockout and major restructuring of the CBA.

I've said it a hundred times in this thread, and I'll say it again. Carmelo Anthony should be very cautious about not signing an extension because the terms of a new CBA are anybody's guess. Is playing in Denver really that bad? Watch they make a run in the playoffs and Carmelo just signs the dotted line on the last possible day.

The way I look at it is, the salary cap figure is a percentage of the revenue. As far as I know it is a fixed percentage and the revenue is what fluctuates. Well the cap has gone up year after year, which indicates that NBA revenue is up year after year. Does that mean costs have also gone up? It's possible. Doing some quick math, in 2006 the NBA had an attendance of 21,595,804. 2007 was 21,841,480 people. 2008 was 21,395,576. 2009 was 21,389,899. 2010 was 21,094,015. So slight drop off in 2010, but not a drastic decrease. To be fair, a lot of times, tickets are sold to agencies and to people in the second hand market where the fans don't end up at games leaving empty seats. So while the tickets are sold, there isn't anyone there paying for parking and buying concessions or merchandise. If you google a bit, you will find articles of certain teams lowering ticket prices in recent years and other teams increasing ticket prices in recent years. Again, revenue went up as evidenced by the salary cap increasing even with about 500k fewer tickets sold in 2010 vs 2006 and with some teams dropping ticket prices.

In all honesty, I think NBA profits haven't been significantly impacted by the recession. I think a lot of it is bluster just to squeeze more profits out of the same product. I think owners want to change the system to protect them from themselves. With the long term, mid-level deals that get handed out like candy. The max contracts going to barely above mediocre players. That sort of thing. Maybe we see a slight reduction in the percentage of revenue that makes up the cap figure. Shorter or no MLE deals. Options for incentive based contracts. I think we see a lot of those things rather than an across the board 30% cut in salaries and a hard cap. -Jitpal

[Starksfor3]

Damn, why you gotta hate on Smush Parker like that...

[god shammgod]

Damn, why you gotta hate on Smush Parker like that...

that was great. kobe threw him under the bus and backed up over him again.

[Knicks_Fan2]

STEIN_LINE_HQ Marc Stein
Mavs have secured verbal commitment from Peja Stojakovic that he's signing with Dallas once he clears waivers. Updated ESPN.com link on way

I wonder how much this deal is for and if it, in anyway, is going to help us in the melo chase.

[god shammgod]

STEIN_LINE_HQ Marc Stein
Mavs have secured verbal commitment from Peja Stojakovic that he's signing with Dallas once he clears waivers. Updated ESPN.com link on way

I wonder how much this deal is for and if it, in anyway, is going to help us in the melo chase.

dallas aint chasing melo.

[Jitpal]

STEIN_LINE_HQ Marc Stein
Mavs have secured verbal commitment from Peja Stojakovic that he's signing with Dallas once he clears waivers. Updated ESPN.com link on way

I wonder how much this deal is for and if it, in anyway, is going to help us in the melo chase.

Probably the minimum and it likely takes them completely out of it. Cuban said weeks ago that he wasn't going for Melo. Now they signed a guy that plays his position. -Jitpal

[towelie]

The only team we seem to be competing against is Houston imo. Only Morey seems like the type who'd gamble at renting Melo. Even then, I don't think he'd give up more than say Jordan Hill + 2011 pick (ours or Houston's). Highly doubt Chicago is interested, despite the articles. Dallas isn't involved. And Orlando has ZERO assets, and can't even make a trade until a few days before the deadline when JRich can be traded again.

[BLACKFEET 2010]

STEIN_LINE_HQ Marc Stein
Mavs have secured verbal commitment from Peja Stojakovic that he's signing with Dallas once he clears waivers. Updated ESPN.com link on way

I wonder how much this deal is for and if it, in anyway, is going to help us in the melo chase.

Probably the minimum and it likely takes them completely out of it. Cuban said weeks ago that he wasn't going for Melo. Now they signed a guy that plays his position. -Jitpal

Link to Cuban saying he wasn't going for Melo?

[captain subtext]

Chad Ford is now obviously beating the Melo to the Nets drum. How many more times can this guy be wrong? Oh and just for KnicksGod, he does claim that Melo could lose 40 mm in the new CBA lol.

chadfordinsider Chad Ford
Column: Why Melo-to-the-Nets talks aren't dead -- in the NBA there is no deal until there's a deal http://es.pn/efxmZJ (insider)

There might be a shred of validity to his theory if Melo was ready to go to New Jersey.

Melo

does

not

want

to

play

for

the

Nets.

Everybody at ESPN needs to accept that it's over.

Why do I feel like there is a swearword missing somewhere here? Other than that agreed 100%.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any more ridiculous they pull a "Weekend at Bernie's" and drag that corpse of a trade rumour through the streets again...

Let it die in peace.

[swisscheeseD]

The only team we seem to be competing against is Houston imo. Only Morey seems like the type who'd gamble at renting Melo. Even then, I don't think he'd give up more than say Jordan Hill + 2011 pick (ours or Houston's). Highly doubt Chicago is interested, despite the articles. Dallas isn't involved. And Orlando has ZERO assets, and can't even make a trade until a few days before the deadline when JRich can be traded again.

I don't see Houston as a threat. I just think Morey is trying to take advantage of the Knicks situation again, seeing as how we'd love to have our 2012 pick back to ultimately offer our 2011+2013 picks to Denver.

He could get the player he's rumored to have had interest in AR and possibly get some extra icing on his cake should he make Walsh believe the Rockets will rent Melo for half a season.