BAT 8.0 DISCUSSION -Links pg1(DRAFT IN OTHERTHREAD) Part III

[Fury]

Talk about "bitching" seems to me that some of you are "bitching" because an opinion is expressed...

Notice how 2 teams have been in both defensive rankings. It'll balance out. If everyone votes, no one will "bitch". And yes, there's a difference between voicing opinion and saying that we need judges because people can't separate the jersey from the name or some other bull. Post your ranking, stop crying about the voting process

[WillyJakkz]

I feel bad for bitching at WillyJakkz. At least he ain't backing away from putting his opinions out there.

And it's funny that people want "judges". Like that is going to prevent people from complaining. lol

No harm done dude.

I ain't mad at ya or nothing. I enjoyed doing this BaT, this is my 2nd one and would gladly participate in future BaT's.

I just felt like the time we ALL invested in this, from the draft to complaining about guys missing picks to the trades to going to tinychat to staying up late on here trying to make deals was gone to waste as no one followed thru w/ a resolution to this.

I enjoyed reading your rankings actually and I really don't see what the problem is.

[Context]

Talk about "bitching" seems to me that some of you are "bitching" because an opinion is expressed...

Notice how 2 teams have been in both defensive rankings. It'll balance out. If everyone votes, no one will "bitch". And yes, there's a difference between voicing opinion and saying that we need judges because people can't separate the jersey from the name or some other bull. Post your ranking, stop crying about the voting process

when you stop the crying- then I will... see how that works?

Again, this is a forum... What do people do at a forum? THEY TALK- THEY DISCUSS- THEY EXPRESS THEMSELVES...

It's always "crying" "bitching" "whining" when the "accuser" doesn't agree with the "expression" or "crying" "bitching" "whining" "etc"

I knew the back and forth wouldn't get us anywhere...

[Fury]

The only reason you're not posting your rankings, or even having this discussion is because I didn't put you in the top 5.

[Context]

The only reason you're not posting your rankings, or even having this discussion is because I didn't put you in the top 5.

Read the last 10 pages and you will see OTHER GM's who have an issue with the judging... If I (as you put it) "did my job" I would make sure that the process is "FAIR" NOT worry about my "rankings". What's the point of doing a "rankings" if there's an issue with the judging process...

And on edit:

Fyi, this was my third BAT and I always had an issue with the judging. I think it's an area that needs serious improvement...

[Fury]

The only issue we've had with judging, and even when we had judges, is laziness.

[WillyJakkz]

We need real judges...this isn't working... Some of you are missing the obvious... And honestly, my exact reason for not wanting to give a full pimping...

Kneega, you been my dude since the Magic BaT but imo, the above can be interpreted as a shot to one's intelligence, especially when they are expressing their opinion.

It comes across like they lack bball knowledge (which may actually be true), point is, it's someone's opinion and they actually took time to express it considering there hasn't been many opinions expressed in the ranking process at all.

It could be a huge turnoff for guys down the line if they aren't mentally strong enough to accept guys getting heated at 'em for expressing themselves.

[Fury]

We've like 2 people put up rankings like a month after the draft ended yet that's the reason for not giving a full pimping? Are you sure it's not laziness, because you can't miss the obvious if no one put **** up.

[Context]

We need real judges...this isn't working... Some of you are missing the obvious... And honestly, my exact reason for not wanting to give a full pimping...

Kneega, you been my dude since the Magic BaT but imo, the above can be interpreted as a shot to one's intelligence, especially when they are expressing their opinion.

It comes across like they lack bball knowledge (which may actually be true), point is, it's someone's opinion and they actually took time to express it considering there hasn't been many opinions expressed in the ranking process at all.

It could be a huge turnoff for guys down the line if they aren't mentally strong enough to accept guys getting heated at 'em for expressing themselves.

I could see it being interpreted that way... Let me state, not my intention and I apologize to anyone that took it that way. With that said, I essentially admitted to Fury that I lacked BB knowledge. I admitted that I knew nothing about Lee outside of his name and there are a many things along those lines that I still don't know...

Precisely why we need to examine this process so we can get it right. Besides, if we are going to do "peer judging" then maybe we need to create some sort of criteria to go along with the judging process that all of us can follow...

It's interesting... while we all should appreciate each other for whatever we have contributed to this BAT- it is also our DUTY to be TRUE to the BAT and that might mean "calling each other out" for lack of a better phrase so we can get this right -once and for all.

[Fury]

This is my point: We've only had 2 rankings. There can't be a problem when NO ONE HAS PARTICIPATED. HOW ABOUT PUTTING UP 15 RANKINGS AND SEE WHAT WE GOT, SAVVY?

[WillyJakkz]

This is my point: We've only had 2 rankings. There can't be a problem when NO ONE HAS PARTICIPATED. HOW ABOUT PUTTING UP 15 RANKINGS AND SEE WHAT WE GOT, SAVVY?

Agreed

[Manhattan Project]

Posted mine, it was annoying but it's been sitting in my drafts.

[Knicksfan20]

Sorry i ddint do rankings like i said i would on sunday. Been super busy. I will attempt it again this weekend. xJust gotta find enough time to do it.

[Knicksfan20]

lol @ being rated 4th in defense. What a joke. Guess it has been forgotten that i have Singleton/Affalo/Thomas/Pachulia who are all very good to great defenders at their positions. Affalo is probably top 5 in the league at his respected position.

[WillyJakkz]

lol @ being rated 4th in defense. What a joke. Guess it has been forgotten that i have Singleton/Affalo/Thomas/Pachulia who are all very good to great defenders at their positions. Affalo is probably top 5 in the league at his respected position.

Gun to my head if I did Top 5 defensive rankings it'd go:

1: Hornets: Bynum, Duncan, Afflalo, Prince (to an extent) would be the run away winners and it's not even close as it'd take a really good transition/ fast break team to score on them and or a team w/ great halfcourt execution.

2: Bobcats: Rondo, Tony Allen, Granger, Millsap, and even the "Flopper" Andy V is a really really good defensive unit from top to bottom.

3: TimberWolves: Defense is the 1st thing that comes to mind when I see this team w/ Chalmers, Kidd, and Harden who are solid on the perimeter, then Garnett, Faried, Dalembert, and Lavoy Allen as post/ interior defenders are very solid defensive pieces.

4: Knicks: DPOY Tyson Chanlder, Jared Dudley, Haslem, Amir Johnson, Jeff Teague, and even still Raja Bell is a tough defensive squad, certainly not overlooked on that front by me.

5: Wizards: Rose and Avery Bradley will cause severe issues for teams backcourts and just settling into an offensive set will be huge issues for teams when going against them while Biyombo looks like a legit shotblocker in the paint, Caron Butler is still a defensive asset, and Ivan Johnson is just a hardcore ass dude, a throwback enforcer type guy.

Anyway, props to Fury, haven't agreed w/ you, don't agree w/ your Top 5 Defensive teams but at the end of the day it is YOUR opinion and that's all that truly counts and at least you expressed it and I really don't see what the issue is.

It's funny though because now it's really really coming across that guys won't post their opinions due to the backlash or because their team isn't the winner.

What's worse is now the cry for "judges" simply due to peeps not seeing others peeps teams as being better.

Just make a thread on the GB w/ a link for outside opinions, that's what I did on the Magic Board, got a lil' feedback but feedback nonetheless, reach out to a guy like SOUL who came here specifically saying he'd help judge if it's that big of a bother.

Anyway at least the draft was cool.

Peace.

Reposting this, guess I'll put it in the judging thread.

[Fury]

lol @ being rated 4th in defense. What a joke. Guess it has been forgotten that i have Singleton/Affalo/Thomas/Pachulia who are all very good to great defenders at their positions. Affalo is probably top 5 in the league at his respected position.

Yes, I forgot that.

Lets look at the teams I ranked ahead of yours:

Warriors: Anthony Davis, Chandler Parsons, Omer Asik are probably the best 3-4-5 defensively in this. They are also young. Duncan is a great defender but aging, Bynum is not a good defender and lazy, and Prince is good. Afflalo is good. But I like the Parsons, Asik, Davis combo better. And you also got Valanciunas and Tristian off the bench.

The Hawks have the 2nd best defensive backcourt in this. Holiday and Shumpert. They also got Kidd-Gilchrist and DeAndre Jordan while not a great defender can block shots. They also got Mozgov off the bench. Stephen Jackson is a good defensive player. I like Holiday, Shump, and MKG a lot.

The Bobcats have the best defensive backcourt in the BAT. Rondo and Tony Allen. They also have Varejao down low. Jimmy Butler off the bench.

And I placed your team fourth. I don't like an aging Tim Duncan and Andrew Bynum as much as you do, but I like them.

My team has Hayward and Courtney Lee who are both good defenders. Tiago Splitter and Chris Paul and Gary Neal, Earl Clark, Nazr Mohammed, Greg Stiemsma, and Jan Vesely off the bench, all guys who defend. I haven't gotten ranked yet but whatever. 4th place is really good. Wah wah dude.

[ctorres]

I die a little bit inside anytime some of you guys start to fight. Wish we could all just go out to the bar, pound some beers, and just shoot the sh*t.

[mpharris36]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf_aeL7qlWs[/youtube]

[Knicksfan20]

Asik better defensively then Bynum?

You think Davis, as a rookie mind you...Is going to be a better defensive player then Tim Duncan who is arguably the best defensive pf of all time in his rookie season? Never-the-less the fact that Duncan has one of the highest basketball IQ's, if not the highest in the NBA now. Davis may be the more exiting player, and will have a lot of highlight plays...but Tim Duncan is still one of the best defensive bigs in the league, especially in the half court set.

And do you really think Parsons is a better defender then Prince? Really dude? Your comparing a 2nd year player to a key piece to a NBA championship team that also if i remember correctly made it to the FInals a second time. Lets juts ignore that if Prince was on a contending team, he would be a much more popular player. Now i like Parsons, and i think he is giong to be a solid 2 way player...but he is a first year player...Your comparing him to a guy who has been one of the better defensive wing players for the past decade. Thats called consistancy, i know what Prince brings to the table, and i would take him any day on a playoff team over Parsons. Parsons may not even be as good defensively then Singleton.

But lets take this a little further...

Is Bradley a better defender then Afflalo?
Is Calderon a better defender then Mo Williams? (Mo is actually a decent defender)
Lillard hasnt even played an NBA minute yet, I take Isiah Thomas defensively over him because he has already proven he can play defense at the PG position already. Hes a tough gritty defensively player, who is also an elite athlete. Despite his Size, he has good wingspan and strength to make up for lack of height.
Chris Singleton is a much better defender and better rebounder despite being a first year player.

Im not trying to Knock Ninja's team, i like his team and think it has a ton of potential to be a championship level team in 4 years (Give or take a year). But i think even he would agree that my team is a better defensive team as currently constructed.

[Knicksfan20]

lol @ being rated 4th in defense. What a joke. Guess it has been forgotten that i have Singleton/Affalo/Thomas/Pachulia who are all very good to great defenders at their positions. Affalo is probably top 5 in the league at his respected position.

Gun to my head if I did Top 5 defensive rankings it'd go:

1: Hornets: Bynum, Duncan, Afflalo, Prince (to an extent) would be the run away winners and it's not even close as it'd take a really good transition/ fast break team to score on them and or a team w/ great halfcourt execution.

2: Bobcats: Rondo, Tony Allen, Granger, Millsap, and even the "Flopper" Andy V is a really really good defensive unit from top to bottom.

3: TimberWolves: Defense is the 1st thing that comes to mind when I see this team w/ Chalmers, Kidd, and Harden who are solid on the perimeter, then Garnett, Faried, Dalembert, and Lavoy Allen as post/ interior defenders are very solid defensive pieces.

4: Knicks: DPOY Tyson Chanlder, Jared Dudley, Haslem, Amir Johnson, Jeff Teague, and even still Raja Bell is a tough defensive squad, certainly not overlooked on that front by me.

5: Wizards: Rose and Avery Bradley will cause severe issues for teams backcourts and just settling into an offensive set will be huge issues for teams when going against them while Biyombo looks like a legit shotblocker in the paint, Caron Butler is still a defensive asset, and Ivan Johnson is just a hardcore ass dude, a throwback enforcer type guy.

Anyway, props to Fury, haven't agreed w/ you, don't agree w/ your Top 5 Defensive teams but at the end of the day it is YOUR opinion and that's all that truly counts and at least you expressed it and I really don't see what the issue is.

It's funny though because now it's really really coming across that guys won't post their opinions due to the backlash or because their team isn't the winner.

What's worse is now the cry for "judges" simply due to peeps not seeing others peeps teams as being better.

Just make a thread on the GB w/ a link for outside opinions, that's what I did on the Magic Board, got a lil' feedback but feedback nonetheless, reach out to a guy like SOUL who came here specifically saying he'd help judge if it's that big of a bother.

Anyway at least the draft was cool.

Peace.

Reposting this, guess I'll put it in the judging thread.

Thanks. I agree with your defensive rankings for the most part. Except id probably swap 2 and 3 and add the Hibbert/Gasol team in replace of 4 and slide 4 down.