Around the NBA - Offseason Chatter

[K_ick_God]

Was that really Kyrie and KD talking about how to play on video? I’m lost.

I swear, if they were old rich or upper middle class white guys, they could be straight out of central casting/people I'm sure everyone has met in real life.

That person who had some success in business etc - kudos to them on that, but then mistake that financial success for them being an extraordinary person, smart, who everyone wants to hear their opinion on everything, only they aren't really that smart but also really lacking in self awareness, so everyone is trying to duck this giant blowhard, at the club/family gathering/social function/whatever, bloviating on this and that.

Not that different from actors, musicians etc. "Hey, great you can act/play that thing. No, I really don't give a sh*t about your opinions as a result"
Unfortunately, I guess a lot of people do. Kind of sad. A little pathetic.

Totally. Desperate to believe they’re special even if they just bought a winning lottery ticket. Would opine about how to win the lottery. And let’s be honest — women do this far less.

It’s also part of the Trump pathology.

[GEOLINK]

"We gon see though"

KD's like ain't no media to blame in this IG live, stfu NOW.

They obviously don't have the maturity to win a championship together. Interestingly they've both won championships before

Their talent might still be enough to get to the Finals, and then who knows.

I just think the East is wide open. I sure don't trust Giannis, the Celtics aren't deep enough, and Miami might not have enough top-end talent to beat a healthy Nets team.

Feel like the team is just gonna quit on them. The team already has to cover Kyrie's ass with the media, so they might already hate the dude. Imagine playing with him.

[K_ick_God]

I can’t figure out the point of Nash but seems like pretty much a mediator who lets KD and Kyrie work through things like the video.

It was a creative coup, but unclear what he’ll be. He fits into Kyrie and KD as a credible and conciliatory voice perhaps.

[Buttah304]

Fully agreed that some of these other players looked nice. Certainly not stars but a lot of guys who can end up being starters, some of them 2 way players.

Having said that, I truly believe Obi can end up having a better more impactful career than all of them. Imagine what Toppin could do if he actually had a legitimate PG that could take his game to the next level.

The other thing to be excited about with Obi is that he seems like an underrated passer, or at the very least an element to his game that’s going to be a nice surprise. I also loved the way he moved on the court. He strikes me as the type of player that will have the ability to grab a defensive rebound and push the tempo on the other end. If his 3 PT shot ends up being real he could be a 3 level dominant scorer.

Sorry. Can't buy the "what if he had a great PG" argument. Really good players are really good without needing someone special to make them very good.

Obviously, better PG play helps bigs. But great players make other players better, not that they need a player to make them better.
An oversimplification, but there it is.

You’re acting as if the basis of my entire argument is based on Obi needing a PG. All I am trying to say is that IF he gets paired with an excellent PG or a legitimate playmaker his game will go to the next level. Amare/Nash, Payton/Kemp, CP3/Blake. Even Jokic and Murray run a nice 2 man game.

I’m simply trying to convey that Obi being paired with a legit playmaker will take his game to the next level, not that his career depends on it. The Knicks have lacked a true playmaker or legitimate scoring guard to breakdown a defense in so long that most fans can’t even seem to picture what it would do for our offense. Again, I wanna be clear I am not saying that Obi wont be a star because he doesn’t have a lead guard. I’m just saying that IF he gets one we might see his game go to another level.

[thebuzzardman]

Fully agreed that some of these other players looked nice. Certainly not stars but a lot of guys who can end up being starters, some of them 2 way players.

Having said that, I truly believe Obi can end up having a better more impactful career than all of them. Imagine what Toppin could do if he actually had a legitimate PG that could take his game to the next level.

The other thing to be excited about with Obi is that he seems like an underrated passer, or at the very least an element to his game that’s going to be a nice surprise. I also loved the way he moved on the court. He strikes me as the type of player that will have the ability to grab a defensive rebound and push the tempo on the other end. If his 3 PT shot ends up being real he could be a 3 level dominant scorer.

Sorry. Can't buy the "what if he had a great PG" argument. Really good players are really good without needing someone special to make them very good.

Obviously, better PG play helps bigs. But great players make other players better, not that they need a player to make them better.
An oversimplification, but there it is.

You’re acting as if the basis of my entire argument is based on Obi needing a PG. All I am trying to say is that IF he gets paired with an excellent PG or a legitimate playmaker his game will go to the next level. Amare/Nash, Payton/Kemp, CP3/Blake. Even Jokic and Murray run a nice 2 man game.

I’m simply trying to convey that Obi being paired with a legit playmaker will take his game to the next level, not that his career depends on it. The Knicks have lacked a true playmaker or legitimate scoring guard to breakdown a defense in so long that most fans can’t even seem to picture what it would do for our offense. Again, I wanna be clear I am not saying that Obi wont be a star because he doesn’t have a lead guard. I’m just saying that IF he gets one we might see his game go to another level.

It will definitely help.

One day, I hope the Knicks draft a player who makes the other players better, not a guy who needs x,y,z to reach his potential.

I guess I'm describing the very rare player, nearly generational or at the least, very top tier.

Would be nice to have one. It's always other teams.

Instead, it has to be "Oh, RJ needs shooters to space the floor; can't play with Randle as Randle is in the way" or "Mitch needs a great PG to set him up" or now "Obi needs a PG to unlock the next level"

Just for once I want the Knicks to get that guy who could play with any player, no matter their style, and elevate THOSE guys.

Who was the last one? Ewing? Maybe. He needed PGs to set him up, but he was going to perform at a high level no matter what.
A couple of seasons of Bernard King?
Maybe Michael Ray Richardson?
Clyde or Willis Reed?

At this point I'd settle for a wing other teams actually have to game plan for.

[Buttah304]

Sorry. Can't buy the "what if he had a great PG" argument. Really good players are really good without needing someone special to make them very good.

Obviously, better PG play helps bigs. But great players make other players better, not that they need a player to make them better.
An oversimplification, but there it is.

You’re acting as if the basis of my entire argument is based on Obi needing a PG. All I am trying to say is that IF he gets paired with an excellent PG or a legitimate playmaker his game will go to the next level. Amare/Nash, Payton/Kemp, CP3/Blake. Even Jokic and Murray run a nice 2 man game.

I’m simply trying to convey that Obi being paired with a legit playmaker will take his game to the next level, not that his career depends on it. The Knicks have lacked a true playmaker or legitimate scoring guard to breakdown a defense in so long that most fans can’t even seem to picture what it would do for our offense. Again, I wanna be clear I am not saying that Obi wont be a star because he doesn’t have a lead guard. I’m just saying that IF he gets one we might see his game go to another level.

It will definitely help.

One day, I hope the Knicks draft a player who makes the other players better, not a guy who needs x,y,z to reach his potential.

I guess I'm describing the very rare player, nearly generational or at the least, very top tier.

Would be nice to have one. It's always other teams.

Instead, it has to be "Oh, RJ needs shooters to space the floor; can't play with Randle as Randle is in the way" or "Mitch needs a great PG to set him up" or now "Obi needs a PG to unlock the next level"

Just for once I want the Knicks to get that guy who could play with any player, no matter their style, and elevate THOSE guys.

Who was the last one? Ewing? Maybe. He needed PGs to set him up, but he was going to perform at a high level no matter what.
A couple of seasons of Bernard King?
Maybe Michael Ray Richardson?
Clyde or Willis Reed?

At this point I'd settle for a wing other teams actually have to game plan for.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. We absolutely need that franchise player who we can plug in and does precisely what you described. Having said that we need to ensure that we develop RJ-Mitch-Obi and our future draft picks so that when that day comes and we are fortunate to land that special player we have a foundation in place that consists of legitimate starters and an all star. If Mitch can be a 12-10-2.5 player, RJ 18-5-4 and Obi a 20-7-3 guy (obviously this is my bullish dream) landing the franchise player won’t mean much if our surrounding talent doesn’t reach their potential. I often think about some of these young stars in the league and wonder if they were drafted by the Knicks organization would they even be where they are today. Proper coaching and development is paramount. I pray the new additions we have in place can maximize their abilities while doing everything they can to overcome their shortcomings.

[SelbyCobra]

Sorry. Can't buy the "what if he had a great PG" argument. Really good players are really good without needing someone special to make them very good.

Obviously, better PG play helps bigs. But great players make other players better, not that they need a player to make them better.
An oversimplification, but there it is.

You’re acting as if the basis of my entire argument is based on Obi needing a PG. All I am trying to say is that IF he gets paired with an excellent PG or a legitimate playmaker his game will go to the next level. Amare/Nash, Payton/Kemp, CP3/Blake. Even Jokic and Murray run a nice 2 man game.

I’m simply trying to convey that Obi being paired with a legit playmaker will take his game to the next level, not that his career depends on it. The Knicks have lacked a true playmaker or legitimate scoring guard to breakdown a defense in so long that most fans can’t even seem to picture what it would do for our offense. Again, I wanna be clear I am not saying that Obi wont be a star because he doesn’t have a lead guard. I’m just saying that IF he gets one we might see his game go to another level.

It will definitely help.

One day, I hope the Knicks draft a player who makes the other players better, not a guy who needs x,y,z to reach his potential.

I guess I'm describing the very rare player, nearly generational or at the least, very top tier.

Would be nice to have one. It's always other teams.

Instead, it has to be "Oh, RJ needs shooters to space the floor; can't play with Randle as Randle is in the way" or "Mitch needs a great PG to set him up" or now "Obi needs a PG to unlock the next level"

Just for once I want the Knicks to get that guy who could play with any player, no matter their style, and elevate THOSE guys.

Who was the last one? Ewing? Maybe. He needed PGs to set him up, but he was going to perform at a high level no matter what.
A couple of seasons of Bernard King?
Maybe Michael Ray Richardson?
Clyde or Willis Reed?

At this point I'd settle for a wing other teams actually have to game plan for.

Gallo is borderline, but Strickland/Jackson in back to back drafts is the first indisputable one. Over 30 years ago.

EDIT: Didn't realize you weren't talking just the draft. In that case, even though he was a corpse and full of all sorts of other problems, Kidd in 2013 qualifies.

And yes, that's how bereft of that quality this franchise has been - a player who would become a coach less than 6 months later is the peak of our recent involvement with these type of guys.

[Chanel Bomber]

Sorry. Can't buy the "what if he had a great PG" argument. Really good players are really good without needing someone special to make them very good.

Obviously, better PG play helps bigs. But great players make other players better, not that they need a player to make them better.
An oversimplification, but there it is.

You’re acting as if the basis of my entire argument is based on Obi needing a PG. All I am trying to say is that IF he gets paired with an excellent PG or a legitimate playmaker his game will go to the next level. Amare/Nash, Payton/Kemp, CP3/Blake. Even Jokic and Murray run a nice 2 man game.

I’m simply trying to convey that Obi being paired with a legit playmaker will take his game to the next level, not that his career depends on it. The Knicks have lacked a true playmaker or legitimate scoring guard to breakdown a defense in so long that most fans can’t even seem to picture what it would do for our offense. Again, I wanna be clear I am not saying that Obi wont be a star because he doesn’t have a lead guard. I’m just saying that IF he gets one we might see his game go to another level.

It will definitely help.

One day, I hope the Knicks draft a player who makes the other players better, not a guy who needs x,y,z to reach his potential.

I guess I'm describing the very rare player, nearly generational or at the least, very top tier.

Would be nice to have one. It's always other teams.

Instead, it has to be "Oh, RJ needs shooters to space the floor; can't play with Randle as Randle is in the way" or "Mitch needs a great PG to set him up" or now "Obi needs a PG to unlock the next level"

Just for once I want the Knicks to get that guy who could play with any player, no matter their style, and elevate THOSE guys.

Who was the last one? Ewing? Maybe. He needed PGs to set him up, but he was going to perform at a high level no matter what.
A couple of seasons of Bernard King?
Maybe Michael Ray Richardson?
Clyde or Willis Reed?

At this point I'd settle for a wing other teams actually have to game plan for.

Minor counterpoint: In the modern NBA, where shooting and floor spacing is more than ever needed (not that it wasn't valuable or valued before), you can set up any player to fail by surrounding him with the wrong teammates. Put Randle and Payton on the Lakers starting 5 and they will make life harder for LeBron James and Anthony Davis. Their negative impact would only be subdued by the quality of LeBron and AD. My point is (in response to your x, y, z argument) even LeBron and Curry need shooting around them. Anthony Davis went nowhere without an elite playmaker.

I get your point though, a player who doesn't hurt players around him even though he can be hurt by the presence of others through no fault of his own. Being able to play off-ball is a start (I think an endemic problem with the Knicks is this belief that the game is played with more than just one basketball).

However, Butler and Giannis aren't the easiest guys to build around, but they've shown they can go deep in the playoffs when surrounded with the right pieces. I think, or at least I'm hopeful that in time RJ will be one of those guys. I think he will have the ability to make his teammates better, but in a system where players don't cannibalize each other as they are doing now.

But yes, there are only so many hard-to-build-around guys you can have on your team.

[robillionaire]

Nah, let's get it going.

Obi sucks.
Williams, Okoro, LaMelo, Theo, Bey, Deni, Vassel, Kira, Poku all MUCH better.
For brevity, I left off the 20 other drafted players

I like Obi but Lamelo is just on another level.

Oh well. If only the Knicks were picking 3rd

we were picking 33rd and Theo was on the board and we traded back for a 2023 2nd rounder. I think regretting missing someone picked after 33 are fair game for criticism since we didn't pick anyone

[thebuzzardman]

I like Obi but Lamelo is just on another level.

Oh well. If only the Knicks were picking 3rd

we were picking 33rd and Theo was on the board and we traded back for a 2023 2nd rounder. I think regretting missing someone picked after 33 are fair game for criticism since we didn't pick anyone

That's what happens when CAA/Kentucky is running the team.

Am I doing it right?

[god shammgod]

Oh well. If only the Knicks were picking 3rd

we were picking 33rd and Theo was on the board and we traded back for a 2023 2nd rounder. I think regretting missing someone picked after 33 are fair game for criticism since we didn't pick anyone

That's what happens when CAA/Kentucky is running the team.

Am I doing it right?

they couldn't have drafted him, because they seemingly were unable to gather any intel on anyone not caa/kentucky related. there, now it's right.

[GEOLINK]

Nice reminder to all

Read on Twitter

[knickstape4ever]

Read on Twitter

bad jersey. City Never Sleeps is such a tourist thing to say

[K_ick_God]

Read on Twitter

bad jersey. City Never Sleeps is such a tourist thing to say

Jay-Z says it.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Also: Portis: 14pt-13reb. Candidate to be a significant player on a team to win the ring.

Yeah, we should have re-upped Portis and his 18 million dollar contract. How about giving him 4 years at 20 million!

He's a good player. Also glad he's gone. Don't specifically care what he does on another team.

15 million. The Knicks could have done with him what they did with Payton. By no means a clear need, but a possibility. Portis-x-Spellman?

[Capn'O]

Nice reminder to all

Read on Twitter

Yeah, the good players are all in tuneup mode.


Man though - watching that video it's 100% clear that conditioning held Bennett back from being at least a decent player.

[HarthorneWingo]

C'mon man, trying to figure out how this team gets built is half the fun. Let's face it, there's plenty of material here to question.

[HarthorneWingo]

I like Obi but Lamelo is just on another level.

Oh well. If only the Knicks were picking 3rd

we were picking 33rd and Theo was on the board and we traded back for a 2023 2nd rounder. I think regretting missing someone picked after 33 are fair game for criticism since we didn't pick anyone

[thebuzzardman]

Also: Portis: 14pt-13reb. Candidate to be a significant player on a team to win the ring.

Yeah, we should have re-upped Portis and his 18 million dollar contract. How about giving him 4 years at 20 million!

He's a good player. Also glad he's gone. Don't specifically care what he does on another team.

15 million. The Knicks could have done with him what they did with Payton. By no means a clear need, but a possibility. Portis-x-Spellman?

True - though I think he really wanted to be on a more competitive team. Forgot the team could renounce then resign at another $ amount.

But Portis a more logical fit than Randle, though obvious there's the commitment to Randle etc.

I hope they keep Spellman to fit the role of outside shooting bench big, if not in exactly the way of Portis.

[Oscirus]

Sorry. Can't buy the "what if he had a great PG" argument. Really good players are really good without needing someone special to make them very good.

Obviously, better PG play helps bigs. But great players make other players better, not that they need a player to make them better.
An oversimplification, but there it is.

You’re acting as if the basis of my entire argument is based on Obi needing a PG. All I am trying to say is that IF he gets paired with an excellent PG or a legitimate playmaker his game will go to the next level. Amare/Nash, Payton/Kemp, CP3/Blake. Even Jokic and Murray run a nice 2 man game.

I’m simply trying to convey that Obi being paired with a legit playmaker will take his game to the next level, not that his career depends on it. The Knicks have lacked a true playmaker or legitimate scoring guard to breakdown a defense in so long that most fans can’t even seem to picture what it would do for our offense. Again, I wanna be clear I am not saying that Obi wont be a star because he doesn’t have a lead guard. I’m just saying that IF he gets one we might see his game go to another level.

It will definitely help.

One day, I hope the Knicks draft a player who makes the other players better, not a guy who needs x,y,z to reach his potential.

I guess I'm describing the very rare player, nearly generational or at the least, very top tier.

Would be nice to have one. It's always other teams.

Instead, it has to be "Oh, RJ needs shooters to space the floor; can't play with Randle as Randle is in the way" or "Mitch needs a great PG to set him up" or now "Obi needs a PG to unlock the next level"

Just for once I want the Knicks to get that guy who could play with any player, no matter their style, and elevate THOSE guys.

Who was the last one? Ewing? Maybe. He needed PGs to set him up, but he was going to perform at a high level no matter what.
A couple of seasons of Bernard King?
Maybe Michael Ray Richardson?
Clyde or Willis Reed?

At this point I'd settle for a wing other teams actually have to game plan for.

So basically what you want is a once in a lifetime player like jordan or lebron, cuz everybody else from giannis on down needs a certain type of player to be better. If thats the case, buy a lottery ticket, cuz unless we get 1 in the right draft, t aint happening.

We legit had the best offensive player of the last era and he couldnt do **** cuz we kept putting trash around him. Most teams build their own luck, this team cant build a lego castle without **** it up.