Breaking: Tom Fired

[Jeff Van Gully]

Same. I had so much frustration dating back to the hawk series when we had elfrid freekin payton starting instead of rose who was cooking in pick and roll with Randle.
He also played IQ not at all in that series. Matter of fact it could be argued Payton was the worst of those 3 guards yet he was the starter.

Not allowing obi to play meaningful backup minutes to Randle to establish a role. There were so many rookies or second year players who never got much of a chance under him. If you’re always going to play vets, what’s the point of even drafting rookies.

I was over this dood a long long time ago.

bruh. obi played like 100% of the randle backup minutes his whole time in the knick uniform. like, from the draft. i don't understand this complaint. where you trying to get the extra minutes from? there are only so many.

if you're saying he should have been playing next to randle, that's something else. but randle didn't leave more than 14 minutes on the table really ever.

quickley was also an immediate rotation player and backup. actually got to play alongside starters, which is pretty much the only way to get minutes into the 20s as a reserve.

That's a glaring problem though, the fact that we were told over and over again that Randle & Obi wouldn't work in small lineups, yet the Pacers have gone with Siakam & Obi in small lineups. We saw Randle & Reid in Minnesota in small lineups, Thibs flat out refused to play small with these guys on the team, and it was excused because people just said Obi couldn't do it, or Randle couldn't do it. Turns out, they could do it, but the coach just didn't have the vision to see it.

We got closed out with Obi playing in a small lineup which Thibs refused to do, it's kind of poetic his tenure with us ended that way.

but bro said he didn't play randle backup minutes when that's all he did. that's what we were talking about. and why i said playing alongside randle is a separate conversation (and layup line invitation).

[The KnicksFix]

Lot of people showing love and respect for this man but I’m someone who wanted him gone during the hawks series that we lost in 2021. It’s been nothing but torture having him coach the team since then so I don’t have much to say other than good riddance.

Now let’s smarten up and get someone young with some brain wrinkles to take us to the next level. Championship window is wide open next year.

Same. I had so much frustration dating back to the hawk series when we had elfrid freekin payton starting instead of rose who was cooking in pick and roll with Randle.
He also played IQ not at all in that series. Matter of fact it could be argued Payton was the worst of those 3 guards yet he was the starter.

Not allowing obi to play meaningful backup minutes to Randle to establish a role. There were so many rookies or second year players who never got much of a chance under him. If you’re always going to play vets, what’s the point of even drafting rookies.

I was over this dood a long long time ago.

bruh. obi played like 100% of the randle backup minutes his whole time in the knick uniform. like, from the draft. i don't understand this complaint. where you trying to get the extra minutes from? there are only so many.

if you're saying he should have been playing next to randle, that's something else. but randle didn't leave more than 14 minutes on the table really ever.

quickley was also an immediate rotation player and backup. actually got to play alongside starters, which is pretty much the only way to get minutes into the 20s as a reserve.

JVG, he played ELF OVER ROSE
REASON OUT WHATEVER ELSE U WANT, OB QUICK RJ…….
HE PLAYED ELF OVER ROSE FOR THE FIRST 2.5 GAMES AGAINST THE HAWKS
When he finally made the Rose switch, it was in quarter 3 game 3 of the hawks series

Quickley’s minutes in that series was as follow:
Game 1. 21
Game 2. 15
Game 3. 15
Game 4. 13
Game 5. 13

Do you notice the Downward trend?? He should have been playing MORE. Not less!

I think sometimes you miss the over arching message/ points of my posts
While you can nitpick at the way I view things, Thibs was always a day late and a dollar short, and that’s why he got fired

[DaGawd]

trade every pick left for ime udoka

[Context]

People kept asking me wtf is wrong with you today.....heard the news and I....just couldn't help it. I'm still trying to straighten my face.



We did it, NoDope. Good job.

I will say this again, many of you place too much responsibility on the coach, and again, Thibs was far from perfect, but when you watch Brunson and KAT come up small, you watch the struggles they had especially with KaT and his brain lapses on defense, you see the lack of shooting, the lack of another ball handler to help Brunson out, to see a team without the athletes to keep up with the pacers. Again, to blame the coach for the loss roster flaws is just flat out wrong. Again with ALL OF THAT SAID, I trust Leon and his decision making. I am disappointed Thibs is gone, but I WILL
KEEP SAYING THIS, a new coach WILL NOT FIX THE ROSTER FLAWS..but now this is step one, i will keep saying this a new coach deserves to not have KAT and brunson..at least give the new coach a chance

I think some people watch this team with their eyes closed, it's the only reason they can hate this move. All they know is that their ears told them we went to the ECF. Every roster has it's flaws...championship teams have their flaws....were people expecting to have a perfect roster for this guy to succeed? LMAO. All this crying about defense, and we had the defensive maestro who couldn't figure it out...it's the roster. Well then how about you do something that utilizes and maxes out their strengths....oh that's right, that's not his thing...the offense is up to the players to figure out, "the game will tell you what to do"....foh.

He's great at coaching bum teams, getting role players to max out, it's why he's obsessed with Josh, it's why he won one more game than last year with a much better, healthier roster and still lost to the same team in LESS **** GAMES with a more talented team. He doesn't know what to do with talent. Kolek is a perfect example...because he doesn't dive head first into the stands, he's useless. Give me a break.

Now it won't be nausea inducing watching this team run offense next season. I'm already excited and looking forward to the team that before he told them how to play, they were feeling themselves out and looked like the best offense in the league when Kat first arrived. Then come January he starts laying down the law for the second half of the season and all of a sudden we look like Iverson's Sixers. Because that's WHAT HE WANTS. No ball movement to limit turnovers, give it to your best guy and make sure you get a shot. Circa 1999 era basketball.

I've heard from countless people it's Thibs way or the highway...the assistants don't even run practice, he gives them no autonomy, it's why Brunson was a perfect fit....he just needed a babysitter for his star player, not actual assistant coaches. He was dead set on Brunson and Hart being his main catalysts, and it was clear from guys like Shamet that the rest were unhappy about their roles, they had no roles...it's just go in now, that guy is hurt.

I expect Duece, Bridges, and others to prosper now that this reign of tyranny is over. And there is one guy in there that can unlock a lot of these guys....Haliburton can pass like this he can pass like that....we have one of the better young playmakers I've seen in a while and it was a crime, as a basketball lover and coach, to not see him get burn in a game in the middle of February because this idiot wants to use 7 players to make sure he gets a win against Charlotte. This stupid coach sticking to his old guns playing nobody else but who he thinks can run the fastest to a rolling ball....no more.

Good riddance....it's time for the others to shine. I'm sure the players and front office were tired of hearing the excuse all year....we have no bench..until it was the fifth game in the ECF, then all of a sudden we win a crucial playoff game with our best players playing no more than 34 minutes each. How tf did that happen?????? Would've been nice to have found out on that cold night in February.

They're about to ball out next year. Can't wait.

I dont want to mean to Thibs because I think he's lost in his ego...That said...
You told no lies...
And I love they way you explained everything. I watched every single game this year- maybe missed 2/3...
Our Potential is immensely untapped and I cant wait to see it next year...

[Context]

trade every pick left for ime udoka

they will never release him

[Jeff Van Gully]

Same. I had so much frustration dating back to the hawk series when we had elfrid freekin payton starting instead of rose who was cooking in pick and roll with Randle.
He also played IQ not at all in that series. Matter of fact it could be argued Payton was the worst of those 3 guards yet he was the starter.

Not allowing obi to play meaningful backup minutes to Randle to establish a role. There were so many rookies or second year players who never got much of a chance under him. If you’re always going to play vets, what’s the point of even drafting rookies.

I was over this dood a long long time ago.

bruh. obi played like 100% of the randle backup minutes his whole time in the knick uniform. like, from the draft. i don't understand this complaint. where you trying to get the extra minutes from? there are only so many.

if you're saying he should have been playing next to randle, that's something else. but randle didn't leave more than 14 minutes on the table really ever.

quickley was also an immediate rotation player and backup. actually got to play alongside starters, which is pretty much the only way to get minutes into the 20s as a reserve.

JVG, he played ELF OVER ROSE
REASON OUT WHATEVER ELSE U WANT, OB QUICK RJ…….
HE PLAYED ELF OVER ROSE FOR THE FIRST 2.5 GAMES AGAINST THE HAWKS
When he finally made the Rose switch, it was in quarter 3 game 3 of the hawks series

I think sometimes you miss the over arching message/ points of my posts
While you can nitpick at the way I view things, Thibs was always a day late and a dollar short, and that’s why he got fired

no... i get your point just fine.

just in the throes of excitement you sometimes say things that are not accurate. the things i point out aren't to diminish your points. you just get so hopped up you throw in inaccuracies.

shoot. mess with me and your posts can be teflon. i want you to win properly. don't lose the patient over the unnecessary medical error, right?

[CyKnickal]

Read on Twitter

Screaming that Leon would never fire Tom and this is ALL on Dolan.

This clown is still living in his WFAN days when we were absolute dog **** and the only talking points NY media had was drama, and Dolan was a big part of it. That's not the case now but this idiot is going back in time in his old brain and reliving those moments...he's probably excited he has some Knicks turmoil to scream about after many years instead of talking about actual Knicks basketball, it's in their makeup. That's why he thinks it's the same **** going on.

He's trying to sell us that Dolan is back. Somebody put Mad Dog to sleep already.

In honor of our great owner. I used to post this every time we made a bad move...now.....it's to celebrate. Good times.

Watch on YouTube

Wait for the end. That was the sound I heard every time a coach was fired or we signed another washed up player.

[The KnicksFix]

bruh. obi played like 100% of the randle backup minutes his whole time in the knick uniform. like, from the draft. i don't understand this complaint. where you trying to get the extra minutes from? there are only so many.

if you're saying he should have been playing next to randle, that's something else. but randle didn't leave more than 14 minutes on the table really ever.

quickley was also an immediate rotation player and backup. actually got to play alongside starters, which is pretty much the only way to get minutes into the 20s as a reserve.

JVG, he played ELF OVER ROSE
REASON OUT WHATEVER ELSE U WANT, OB QUICK RJ…….
HE PLAYED ELF OVER ROSE FOR THE FIRST 2.5 GAMES AGAINST THE HAWKS
When he finally made the Rose switch, it was in quarter 3 game 3 of the hawks series

I think sometimes you miss the over arching message/ points of my posts
While you can nitpick at the way I view things, Thibs was always a day late and a dollar short, and that’s why he got fired

no... i get your point just fine.

just in the throes of excitement you sometimes say things that are not accurate. the things i point out aren't to diminish your points. you just get so hopped up you throw in inaccuracies.

shoot. mess with me and your posts can be teflon. i want you to win properly. don't lose the patient over the unnecessary medical error, right?

I edited my post just now to include quick’s minutes. I don’t think what I’m saying is inaccurate. Again it’s how you’re viewing it. I said quick should have been playing more not less in that series. Quick deserved to be the back up to rose, yet elf was still getting minutes in that series to the end, while Alec Burks ate a majority of minutes at the 2

Rose and quick would have been a great two guard tandem to START. Instead he was buried.
The common theme in Thibs’ tenure was that he always buried the patient before he saw if his meds were working, no? When he finally saw what worked, it was too late. At the end of the day, when we had elfrid freekin Payton starting when we had rose on the bench, we were cooked. So my points can get nitpicked to the end for inaccuracies or discrepancies, it still doesn’t take away from the fact that the front office saw exactly what I was seeing. A day late and a dollar short. You can’t just lose games and go down one or two games in playoff series. That’s what coaching is about and that’s what life is about. You make the adjustment before someone gets the edge on you. Not the other way around.

[matchman]

I don't get how some of you can celebrate a man losing his dream job and passion but I'm not surprised.

Be careful what you wish for.

The guy is walking away with 30 million dollars owed to him. Why should we feel sorry. Man if I got fired and was walking away with 10% of that, I would be smiling on my way out. Thibs has my respect, but not my sympathy.

And on the flipped side of the coin, he did end his head coach career with Knicks in ECF, it's much better posture than him being headed exit during mid season next year.

[The KnicksFix]

I don't get how some of you can celebrate a man losing his dream job and passion but I'm not surprised.

Be careful what you wish for.

The guy is walking away with 30 million dollars owed to him. Why should we feel sorry. Man if I got fired and was walking away with 10% of that, I would be smiling on my way out. Thibs has my respect, but not my sympathy.

And on the flipped side of the coin, he did end his head coach career with Knicks in ECF, it's much better posture than him being headed exit during mid season next year.

Lotta rumors saying they did offer him a front office role but he denied it
Now he’s on the market

For all the sh** I give Thibs, he’s a great regular season coach and can turn a culture around. But to win a ring he’s not that guy.

[Adelheid]

this is what happens when you hire a string of bum coaches over the course of decades...everyone's bar of standard gets forcibly lowered. fans get mentally scarred to a point they treat a mediocre or sub-par coach as untouchable.

its the fault of past front office regimes, going for gimmicky hirings and relationships rather than merit and potential

[Context]

this is what happens when you hire a string of bum coaches over the course of decades...everyone's bar of standard gets forcibly lowered. fans get mentally scarred to a point they treat a mediocre or sub-par coach as untouchable.

its the fault of past front office regimes, going for gimmicky hirings and relationships rather than merit and potential

[Clyde_Style]

He knew

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

I found it interesting how people took anything positive Brunson said about Thibs so literally when this is what most pro ballers do with their coaches to some degree. I said it did not mean that is exactly how Brunson feels about Thibs and it was merely him being politically correct.

Brunson grew up with Uncle Thibs so it would be like crapping on a relative in public. He just wasn't going to do it.

I'm sure Brunson has a soft spot for Thibs, but that has nothing to do with whether he feels Thibs will help him reach his goals, because the reality is Thibs would not. Thibs did, however, give Brunson the opportunity of a lifetime to do WTF he wanted on the court and he became Mr. Clutch so there is a debt there, but that's as far as it necessarily goes.

Brunson is a villain to some

Whatever Jalen's inside scoop is, the FO did this for him whether he agrees or not. Brunson is a major player whose flaws got accentuated under Thibs and this FO has to know that a star scorer like Brunson will only benefit from proper coaching and a better run club. All of the stuff said about Brunson on the negative side can be compensated for with better coaching.

In sum, Brunson is vastly more important to this franchise than Thibs ever was and the FO wants to maximize his potential while refining the team concept his talents can fit into better. Thibs is basically Coach Carmelo Anthony who didn't have much more to contribute than hand Brunson the ball and say Go! This roster with Brunson needs a better strategist to make their talents blend better.

[Polk377]

I'm just going to throw this out there but I would be in favor of bringing Mike Woodson back for one more run. I think he can take the pieces that we have and put a good scheme on both ends together.

[CyKnickal]

[The KnicksFix]

bruh. obi played like 100% of the randle backup minutes his whole time in the knick uniform. like, from the draft. i don't understand this complaint. where you trying to get the extra minutes from? there are only so many.

if you're saying he should have been playing next to randle, that's something else. but randle didn't leave more than 14 minutes on the table really ever.

quickley was also an immediate rotation player and backup. actually got to play alongside starters, which is pretty much the only way to get minutes into the 20s as a reserve.

That's a glaring problem though, the fact that we were told over and over again that Randle & Obi wouldn't work in small lineups, yet the Pacers have gone with Siakam & Obi in small lineups. We saw Randle & Reid in Minnesota in small lineups, Thibs flat out refused to play small with these guys on the team, and it was excused because people just said Obi couldn't do it, or Randle couldn't do it. Turns out, they could do it, but the coach just didn't have the vision to see it.

We got closed out with Obi playing in a small lineup which Thibs refused to do, it's kind of poetic his tenure with us ended that way.

but bro said he didn't play randle backup minutes when that's all he did. that's what we were talking about. and why i said playing alongside randle is a separate conversation (and layup line invitation).

But that’s my point, we played Taj Gibson in that series
Game 1 24 min, 5 points
Game 2 30 min, 6 points
Game 3 26 min, 4 points
Game 4 24 min, 6 points
Game 5 33 min, 4 points

Obi played
Game 1 12 min, 5 points
Game 2 12 min, 8 points
Game 3 13 min, 4 points
Game 4 19 min, 13 points
Game 5 10 min, 2 points

Game 1, we lost by 2
Game 2 we lost by 9
Game 3 we lost by 11
Game 4 we lost by 17
Game 5 we lost by 14
We needed more scoring!!!!
You mean to tell me he couldn’t eat a LITTLE more minutes from Taj? Especially that game 5 where he only played 10 minutes??

Obi scored as many points OR MORE per game compared to Gibson, and thats my over arching point, I get that you want to break down my inaccuracies by each post and analyze them, but sometimes I feel you have to see the forest thru the trees JVG and the over arching message I’m trying to get across. And I’m not the only one who sees this, reports are now surfacing that World wide Wes and Knicks brain trust wanted Leon gone after this series due to improper allocation of minutes for bench players who they deemed were sorely needed. It was Leon Rose who held off on firing Thibs’ then to give him another chance.

But this goes to my overall point…Thibs never found the right combination of lineups. He didn’t do it then, and he couldn’t do it now. This is what ultimately lead to his demise.

[Clyde_Style]

[CyKnickal]

Read on Twitter

this is my only problem with this. thibs made some mistakes but this wasn't one of them. gotta change the roster if you're really serious about winning it all.

He won't, but he also won't let them only run 13-18 PnRs per game between them. Our offense is gross and doesn't play to it's strengths at all. There was a point in the playoffs where Brunson/KAT were running less PnR per game than Portis and Porter Jr.

Everyone expected a deadly two man game between them, we got none of that.

Brunson had ONE ASSIST in the ECF to Kat. Yeah, even though we have two guys that can drop 30 and two guys who can drop 20 IN THE STARTING LINEUP, lets change the roster for the defense will tell you what shot to take guy. Please tell 'em, Dope.

[The KnicksFix]

I found it interesting how people took anything positive Brunson said about Thibs so literally when this is what most pro ballers do with their coaches to some degree. I said it did not mean that is exactly how Brunson feels about Thibs and it was merely him being politically correct.

Brunson grew up with Uncle Thibs so it would be like crapping on a relative in public. He just wasn't going to do it.

I'm sure Brunson has a soft spot for Thibs, but that has nothing to do with whether he feels Thibs will help him reach his goals, because the reality is Thibs would not. Thibs did, however, give Brunson the opportunity of a lifetime to do WTF he wanted on the court and he became Mr. Clutch so there is a debt there, but that's as far as it necessarily goes.

Brunson is a villain to some

Whatever Jalen's inside scoop is, the FO did this for him whether he agrees or not. Brunson is a major player whose flaws got accentuated under Thibs and this FO has to know that a star scorer like Brunson will only benefit from proper coaching and a better run club. All of the stuff said about Brunson on the negative side can be compensated for with better coaching.

In sum, Brunson is vastly more important to this franchise than Thibs ever was and the FO wants to maximize his potential while refining the team concept his talents can fit into better. Thibs is basically Coach Carmelo Anthony who didn't have much more to contribute than hand Brunson the ball and say Go! This roster with Brunson needs a better strategist to make their talents blend better.

Big Facts
Brunson need to come up off the damn ball and play off ball, invert the offense and let Kat or Mikal be the point man
1-2-2 schemes or anything that gets the big up at the 3 point arch controlling the rock

Can’t wait to see meaningful basketball, and not just the PG (rose or Brunson) or lower block (Randle or KAT) players pound the rock to oblivion

I want to watch the ball move, with player movement

[Jeff Van Gully]

JVG, he played ELF OVER ROSE
REASON OUT WHATEVER ELSE U WANT, OB QUICK RJ…….
HE PLAYED ELF OVER ROSE FOR THE FIRST 2.5 GAMES AGAINST THE HAWKS
When he finally made the Rose switch, it was in quarter 3 game 3 of the hawks series

I think sometimes you miss the over arching message/ points of my posts
While you can nitpick at the way I view things, Thibs was always a day late and a dollar short, and that’s why he got fired

no... i get your point just fine.

just in the throes of excitement you sometimes say things that are not accurate. the things i point out aren't to diminish your points. you just get so hopped up you throw in inaccuracies.

shoot. mess with me and your posts can be teflon. i want you to win properly. don't lose the patient over the unnecessary medical error, right?

I edited my post just now to include quick’s minutes. I don’t think what I’m saying is inaccurate. Again it’s how you’re viewing it. I said quick should have been playing more not less in that series. Quick deserved to be the back up to rose, yet elf was still getting minutes in that series to the end, while Alec Burks ate a majority of minutes at the 2

Rose and quick would have been a great two guard tandem to START. Instead he was buried.
The common theme in Thibs’ tenure was that he always buried the patient before he saw if his meds were working, no? When he finally saw what worked, it was too late. At the end of the day, when we had elfrid freekin Payton starting when we had rose on the bench, we were cooked. So my points can get nitpicked to the end for inaccuracies or discrepancies, it still doesn’t take away from the fact that the front office saw exactly what I was seeing. A day late and a dollar short. You can’t just lose games and go down one or two games in playoff series. That’s what coaching is about and that’s what life is about. You make the adjustment before someone gets the edge on you. Not the other way around.

let me re-clarify.

you said something about obi that was inaccurate -- that he didn't get enough of randle's backup minutes. i corrected that he got 100% of the randle backup minutes. as usual, you took the rest of it somewhere else -- your greater points about thibs.

i correct inaccuracies because as a moderator i want to see good faith conversations. i think accuracy is something we should all want in a space where we're talking ball. some things are matters of opinion. (note how i leave those be.) obi backing up julius randle is a matter of fact thing.

then i just added the quickley bit as an example of a rookie and young player who also played meaningful rotation minutes. i didn't say anything about who else was playing or defend elfrid's minutes in the mix. i didn't say anything about thibs being right or wrong, good or bad. i don't think anything i said threatens or challenges your overall stance.