[Camelo Thread] - Update: He's Pushing for NYK! Part 5

[BLACKFEET 2010]

Posted this in another thread in regards to Fields.

I'm saying dude has been great so far but am I the only one bothered that he looks like a hybrid of David Lee and Channing Frye?
Is this a metaphor of sorts?
I'm half-kidding, love the kid but he CAN NOT be the deal breaker in any deal for Melo Anthony.

[CHARLYMURPHY]

Posted this in another thread in regards to Fields.

I'm saying dude has been great so far but am I the only one bothered that he looks like a hybrid of David Lee and Channing Frye?
Is this a metaphor of sorts?
I'm half-kidding, love the kid but he CAN NOT be the deal breaker in any deal for Melo Anthony.

Yea i agree.. If were just giving up Fields in the deal that would be great.. Crazy how some 2nd round pick can make such an impact, on the court, and in a trade.

[Knicks218]

Gallo and Chandler outproduced anything Melo would have put up tonight.

Do you think MIA would've triple teamed Amare with Melo on the floor?.....Chandler and Gallo can space the floor for Amare against mediocre defensive teams. Melo will keep the floor spaced for Amare against anyone.

Melo has a miserable long-range game. Both Chandler and Gallo are currently better at than Melo. Melo is a career 30.7% three point shooter. He shot 31.6% from three last season and is shooting 28.9 this season.

So much for the spacing the floor argument.

I really think melos 3pt % will get better on the knicks, chandler was a bad 3pt shooter untill this year with amare. Amare being double teamed gets you open looks and after a while they are going to fall. Chandlers having a career year from 3pt im sure dantoni helped him too and i think the same will happen for melo.

[swisscheeseD]

NYK Trade:
Danilo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler
Landry Fields
Ronny Turiaf
Azubuike
Eddy Curry

NYK Receive:
Carmelo Anthony
Nene Hilarioo

Denver Receives:
Gallo, Fields, Verejao, Azubuike, Curry

Cleveland Receives:
Wilson Chandler, Ronny Turiaf

----------------------------------------------

Would you guys sacrifice ALL 3 of our supporting cast to sure up the Center position on top of getting Melo in which we covet?

Now I'd rather Verejao than Nene personally, but reports out of Denver suggest the Nuggs interest in AV making this deal favorable for their shuffled roster. I believe Denver rebuilds on the fly with a solid unit going forward and the ability to retain more assets by sending Billups to a playoff team.

Cavs get Turiaf's shorter deal with similar impact on and off the court as AV, while getting a nice young wing who can put up some points.

We'd still have AR and TD as chips in a possible Mayo deal, or we can make a smaller move for a guy like Ridnour who can be a backup true point.

[CHARLYMURPHY]

NYK Trade:
Danilo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler
Landry Fields
Ronny Turiaf
Azubuike
Eddy Curry

NYK Receive:
Carmelo Anthony
Nene Hilarioo

Denver Receives:
Gallo, Fields, Verejao, Azubuike, Curry

Cleveland Receives:
Wilson Chandler, Ronny Turiaf

----------------------------------------------

Would you guys sacrifice ALL 3 of our supporting cast to sure up the Center position on top of getting Melo in which we covet?

Now I'd rather Verejao than Nene personally, but reports out of Denver suggest the Nuggs interest in AV making this deal favorable for their shuffled roster. I believe Denver rebuilds on the fly with a solid unit going forward and the ability to retain more assets by sending Billups to a playoff team.

Cavs get Turiaf's shorter deal with similar impact on and off the court as AV, while getting a nice young wing who can put up some points.

We'd still have AR and TD as chips in a possible Mayo deal, or we can make a smaller move for a guy like Ridnour who can be a backup true point.

Its a good trade suggestion, But that would pretty much just make us a team that is Felton,Melo,Amar'e,Nene... with no SG, or bench.

If we got OJ Mayo in a trade then yea i would do it probably..

[Knicks218]

Take out fields and turiaf and put in AR,mozgov other wise i dont do it

[duetta]

I really think melos 3pt % will get better on the knicks, chandler was a bad 3pt shooter untill this year with amare. Amare being double teamed gets you open looks and after a while they are going to fall. Chandlers having a career year from 3pt im sure dantoni helped him too and i think the same will happen for melo.

And what's the basis for this belief - other than the usual rose colored glasses that fans display on this board?

Been there, done that. Never expect the zebra to change his stripes, especially this late in his development. Let him come here as a FA, and I'll do the sign & trade with Denver or whoever this summer. We're weren't winning an NBA championship this season anyway - which would be the only reason to give up serious assets now. And there likely will not be an MLE after the next CBA - so we can drop that argument as well. The owners evidently are out for blood this time. Better to be a team with lots of young, inexpensive players than a capped-out one going into the next CBA.

If Anthony's not willing to wait until this summer, then we'll know that his questionable shot selection is not an aberration.

[duetta]

What does that have to do with anything I said? I talked about spacing and you're talking about where he's from and him getting paid. Why? Haha.

Here's what it has to do with. After you ludicrously tried to argue a few months back that Melo was better than Bernard King, I stopped taking you seriously. Understand?

You have an irrational need to pretend that Melo is better than he is. But THE FACTS ARE that he's a 30% career outside shooter who should never take that shot, ever. And, you see, that's what Bernard knew. He knew that if no defense could stop his baseline power moves, why use any other? That's why a 6-7 guy was able to shoot 54% from the field while averaging 32 points a game. I don't think Melo has Bernard's focus or attention span. If he did, his career shooting percentages wouldn't be headed in the wrong direction.

[ReyOpz]

Knicks win = Don't touch our 3 young homegrown players (Fields, Gallo, Chandler)
Knicks loose = Trade them all and get us some Melo

Fields playing great since the beginning of the season = Untouchable
Fields struggling a little againt 2 great defensive team like Bos & Mia = He can go to Denver, he's not that good.

Gallinari going 0-4 in first half with BOS = Have fun in Denver
Gallinari scoring 20 in 2nd half with BOS = Send Chadler to the Nuggest instead of him

People can't overreact to the point where the view on a player change night-per-night...

If Knicks make more freethrows and LeDouche doesn't make all those contested off-balanced shoots(that he usually never make..) and Knicks win this board would go all "MELO WHO?"

But Knicks lost, and with a terrible 3rd quarter, so now is "MELO OUR SAVIOUR, COME SAVE US"

[GONYK]

Knicks win = Don't touch our 3 young homegrown players (Fields, Gallo, Chandler)
Knicks loose = Trade them all and get us some Melo

Fields playing great since the beginning of the season = Untouchable
Fields struggling a little againt 2 great defensive team like Bos & Mia = He can go to Denver, he's not that good.

Gallinari going 0-4 in first half with BOS = Have fun in Denver
Gallinari scoring 20 in 2nd half with BOS = Send Chadler to the Nuggest instead of him

People can't overreact to the point where the view on a player change night-per-night...

If Knicks make more freethrows and LeDouche doesn't make all those contested off-balanced shoots(that he usually never make..) and Knicks win this board would go all "MELO WHO?"

But Knicks lost, and with a terrible 3rd quarter, so now is "MELO OUR SAVIOUR, COME SAVE US"

Perfect post. The mental weakness here is sickening.

[Knicks218]

I really think melos 3pt % will get better on the knicks, chandler was a bad 3pt shooter untill this year with amare. Amare being double teamed gets you open looks and after a while they are going to fall. Chandlers having a career year from 3pt im sure dantoni helped him too and i think the same will happen for melo.

And what's the basis for this belief - other than the usual rose colored glasses that fans display on this board?

Been there, done that. Never expect the zebra to change his stripes, especially this late in his development. Let him come here as a FA, and I'll do the sign & trade with Denver or whoever this summer. We're weren't winning an NBA championship this season anyway - which would be the only reason to give up serious assets now. And there likely will not be an MLE after the next CBA - so we can drop that argument as well. The owners evidently are out for blood this time. Better to be a team with lots of young, inexpensive players than a capped-out one going into the next CBA.

If Anthony's not willing to wait until this summer, then we'll know that his questionable shot selection is not an aberration.

Because dantoni system makes everyone better, if you read my post you would see what im basing it on. look at chandler he was was a bad 3pt shooter now hes having a career year from 3pt also the fact that we have amare has made him better the same will happen with melo.

Some of you knicks fans are idiots sorry to say, you guys are the same ones who bashed the amare signing. Watch when we get melo and he goes crazy in dantoni's system you'll say opps you were wrong again. Melos a super star, amares 28yr we dont have time to wait on galo and chandler they will never be close to melo both of them combined. And it had nothing to do with the heat loss any smart basketball fan would know you snatch melo if you get the chance.

[Knicks218]

If you would'nt want melo here than go be a brooklyn nets fan, favor has some potential!

[duetta]

Because dantoni system makes everyone better.

Just like it made Al Harrington better?

The D'Antoni system just allows certain players to pump up their numbers, while encouraging bad actors to make even more bad choices. But in my 40+ years of intently watching team sports, I've never much been a fan of players' coaches.

[TrueWarrior]

What does that have to do with anything I said? I talked about spacing and you're talking about where he's from and him getting paid. Why? Haha.

Here's what it has to do with. After you ludicrously tried to argue a few months back that Melo was better than Bernard King, I stopped taking you seriously. Understand?

You have an irrational need to pretend that Melo is better than he is. But THE FACTS ARE that he's a 30% career outside shooter who should never take that shot, ever. And, you see, that's what Bernard knew. He knew that if no defense could stop his baseline power moves, why use any other? That's why a 6-7 guy was able to shoot 54% from the field while averaging 32 points a game. I don't think Melo has Bernard's focus or attention span. If he did, his career shooting percentages wouldn't be headed in the wrong direction.

Wow he said Melo was better than Bernard?

Also I find it humorous how much you make excuses for Melo Justlikedude. Seeing you talk about the ups and downs of his three pt shooting has me rollin.

In any case the whole argument here from the beginning has been that some people dont think Melo is as good as others. We see his subpar shooting percentages and think "Why is this guy considered so great?" We see him not leading his teams to much and think "Why is this guy considered so great?"

Heres a tidbit. Nene is leading the NBA in FG%, TS% (has been #1 for 3 years now), is leading in eFG%, and is leading in Offensive Rating (has been for 2 years now). Nene might not be a superstar, but hes efficient as hell and a player you would think a guy like Melo would make even better. Imagine Jordan with Nene instead of Luc Longley? Nene is having his best scoring season at 15.4 ppg in 31.6 mpg, yet hes only doing it on 8.7 shots. Why cant Melo create more scoring opportunities for this man? Hes obviously a very good finisher in the Amare-lite mold. We've seen him show some solid post moves against Amare as well. I dont watch as many Nugget games as some others do, but why isnt Nene scoring more than he is being that damn efficient? You're telling me with a few more shots he couldnt be a 20 ppg player? Or is 15 ppg Nene's ceiling and all Melo could get out of him?

Enough about Nene though. I know Melo hasnt played with another perennial All Star big man like Amare, I just think Melo should make players better. Who have we seen him make better? I know Iverson and Melo had their best shooting years together, but again they didnt win anything. Kenyon Martin was never the same after his surgery. Camby was doing Camby. Billups was doing Billups besides a 1 ppg jump last season. Andre Miller was doing Andre Miller. JR Smith has been the same gunner for years. I mean did he elevate the level of any of his players? I guess Boykins, Afflalo and Linas Kleiza if you want to reach? Look at Amare, who is clearly helping out guys like Chandler, Gallo, Felton, and Fields. The attention he draws has made them better no doubt, and this is without Amare being a good passer at all. I just dont see the same with Melo. If anything Billups was the biggest reason they got to the WCF, not Melo. Billups got to the ECF with Detroit like 5 years in a row.

I mean if you switched Melo and LeBron last season how many games do you think the Cavs and Nuggets win? I think LeBron is on a whole nother stratosphere than Melo, yet some people put them close together just because they came into the league as a 1-2 punch with all the hype.

But look here, at the end of the day Im down with getting Melo FOR THE RIGHT PRICE. Always have. It may seem like I hate Melo, but I just dont think Melo is as good as some others. Im not stupid though. I know he will help us (that is if we dont give up our whole team for him) and is the best available talent on the market. I only dont think he is the savior others paint him as and we would have ALOT more work to do after acquiring him. I think 95% of us on this board want Melo on our own terms, some are just willing to give it all up. My price is NO Gallo and Fields. Best case scenario in my eyes is waiting till FA. We'll lose Chandler but I dont see Chandler, Melo, and Amare complimenting eachother like Melo, Amare, Gallo, and Fields would. Gallo would be our Kukoc and Fields would be our Battier for years to come. Thats my price. Dantoni doesnt care about defense anyway so might as well stock up on offensive firepower. Melo is going to get his money regardless of the CBA though, so he needs to wait this out til July if he really wants to be here. Either that or Denver takes a package around Chandler, Randolph/1st, and Curry or be left with nothing. It would be a cardinal sin to give up Gallo and Fields right now, our two smartest and most efficient players.

[Justdatdude]

What does that have to do with anything I said? I talked about spacing and you're talking about where he's from and him getting paid. Why? Haha.

Here's what it has to do with. After you ludicrously tried to argue a few months back that Melo was better than Bernard King, I stopped taking you seriously. Understand?

You have an irrational need to pretend that Melo is better than he is. But THE FACTS ARE that he's a 30% career outside shooter who should never take that shot, ever. And, you see, that's what Bernard knew. He knew that if no defense could stop his baseline power moves, why use any other? That's why a 6-7 guy was able to shoot 54% from the field while averaging 32 points a game. I don't think Melo has Bernard's focus or attention span. If he did, his career shooting percentages wouldn't be headed in the wrong direction.

Your whole argument on why King was/is better than Carmelo is that he had a better shot selection. That's all your argument is based on. The fact that King wasn't winning ballgames and only made the playoffs 4 times in his whole career doesn't matter to you. I like Bernard King, loved him as a player, and I won't go to much into this simply because I like the guy and don't want to put him down or make it seem like I'm underrating how good he is. But he wasn't better than Carmelo. If shot selection was the prime factor on who the better player is than what is the argument for Kobe being ahead of Wade? Don't tell me its winning games or is it? You tell me. King at his peak, meaning his very very best, was better than Carmelo is now. Compare King's career to what Carmelo has done now and King isn't better. So if you want to take that season in which he played 55 games and averaged close to 33 points per game to make a point, then go ahead.

Truewarrior, I'll keep my response short and simple for Nene. Go to the Nuggets board and tell them that you see Nene score so efficiently and easily, and let them know it has you wondering why Nene doesn't score more and isn't an Allstar. I'm sure most Nuggets fans soured on Melo now so they're ready to criticize him whenever the opportunity present itself. Anyway, after you do that, inform me if you get an answer different from Nene is soft, Nene isn't aggressive, and Nene passes the ball to much when easy scoring opportunity presents itself. You said you don't watch many Nuggets games so you're unaware of what's going on. Instead of me making an excuse, I want you to go there and ask them what's the issue with Nene. Ask them how many times the guy has been called out by Billups, Melo, and Karl for not taking shots. Just tell me their answer.

As for your Melo ups and downs comment. I simply said he's a streaky 3 point shooter. When he's hot, he's hot. When he's cold, he's cold. He goes through stretches of both and his numbers reflect what I said. I never said he was a good 3 point shooter. I said he was a capable 3 point shooter. What part is it that you don't agree with?

I'm going to ignore the Billups got Denver to the conference finals comment. Obviously it had nothing to do with the team being healthy, Birdman and JR having a career season, Nene and Kenyon Martin finally being healthy together, the team finally having legit 3 point shooting which the team lacked Carmelo's entire career, and Carmelo going toe to toe with Dirk in the 2nd round.

Last thing, I want you to explain the Melo doesn't make his teammates better, but Amare has made Gallo, Chandler, Fields, and Felton better comment. I'm really hoping that comment is about their points per game increase and not their fg% increase. Because with all of the open looks they are getting from Amare getting triple teamed and just being on the floor, surely their fg% should be higher, right? Then again, you do have a great point. Gallinari is shooting lower from the field, .2% higher from 3, but his ts% went from .575 to .606. Gallinari's ft% also improved from 82 to 89, but I take it Amare's presence improves Gallinari freethrow shooting? How about Felton who is shooting lower from the field and lower from 3 then he was last season, but his ts% skyrocketed because the 12% increase from the line. I guess Amare gives them the confidence to make freethrows, which lead to them becoming better players...Don't use watching the games to make a point because you went to stats when you made your argument for Carmelo not making his teammates better.

[Knicks218]

What most of you who dont want to trade for melo dont understand is that gallo and chandler are probably gone even if we dont trade them for melo. If we sign melo in the offseason, we would still need a center and im pretty sure we are going to have to flip gallo or chandler for one.

[TrueWarrior]

Every single shooter in the world goes through good and bad stretches. At the end of the day you are what your numbers say you are. Melo has barely shot over 2 threes a game in his career, and is only a 30% career shooter from there. Its clearly not his strength.

Three point shooting aside, why has Melo's FG% dropped the past three years? A guy who barely takes threes and supposedly has an amazing mid range/driving game can only muster 44-45%? Even during his WCF season he was only at .443% with "everybody healthy". Why do LeBron and Wade have higher FG% and TS% with similar styles of play? Im curious to hear your exus... I mean reasoning for this.

[Hitman33]

After these past 2 games why is Fields still untouchable on this board?

Ahhh...RealGm.

[Justdatdude]

Every single shooter in the world goes through good and bad stretches. At the end of the day you are what your numbers say you are. Melo has barely shot over 2 threes a game in his career, and is only a 30% career shooter from there. Its clearly not his strength.

Three point shooting aside, why has Melo's FG% dropped the past three years? A guy who barely takes threes and supposedly has an amazing mid range/driving game can only muster 44-45%? Even during his WCF season he was only at .443% with "everybody healthy". Why do LeBron and Wade have much higher FG% and TS% with similar styles of play? Im curious to hear your exus... I mean reasoning for this.

Not hard to explain. Carmelo played with playmakers in Iverson and Andre Miller. Instead of having to create his shots every time down the floor, he had other players that helped create shots for him. Carmelo doesn't get easy shots anymore, as Billups isn't a playmaker. He helps out on the boards more, that leads to a lack of fastbreak points. When was the last time you seen Carmelo catch an ally oop pass in a half court set, something that was a staple in their offense when Andre Miller was running the team.

Carmelo isn't Lebron. Lebron is a flatout better player than Carmelo and no one will ever argue that. Lebron is a better ball handler than Carmelo and much more athletic which leads to Lebron scoring more efficiently. Lebron has also developed a decent 3 point shot. Everything I said about Lebron can be said about Wade, except Wade doesn't have a legit 3 point shot.

Now address the post I made on the previous page.

[soby22]

when the hell is melo coming?