Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

[Phish Tank]

When I think of blossomed I think of a guy who at least was an all-star consideration. Not a journeyman. if you gotta go back to the 80's to establish history, you already lost.

why does all-star matter? There's only 30 all stars every year, most of whom were top lottery picks. Not everyone can be an all-star. If you can get someone who can play 10-15 years in the NBA, what's wrong with that. Players barely play 10 years in the league now.

That's basically starfuqing. The same thing that plagued most fans in the Melo years.

Ariza's still in the league. And we spent nearly $30-40M trying to find someone who can do what he did. It's simple economics.

[prophet_of_rage]

The only player we stupidly traded was Rod Strickland because we got rid of Mark Jackson, too. Most of the other Knicks castoffs may have stuck around the league, but didn't do anything special. The players list of people the Knicks missed out on is probably more condemning than the Knicks picks who didn't work out.

[Thugger HBC]

When I think of blossomed I think of a guy who at least was an all-star consideration. Not a journeyman. if you gotta go back to the 80's to establish history, you already lost.

why does all-star matter? There's only 30 all stars every year, most of whom were top lottery picks. Not everyone can be an all-star. If you can get someone who can play 10-15 years in the NBA, what's wrong with that. Players barely play 10 years in the league now.

That's basically starfuqing. The same thing that plagued most fans in the Melo years.

Ariza's still in the league. And we spent nearly $30-40M trying to find someone who can do what he did. It's simple economics.

Because the term blossomed was used. If that's the case say Channing Frye blossomed.

David Lee made all-star under us, did he blossom?

[Thugger HBC]

The only player we stupidly traded was Rod Strickland because we got rid of Mark Jackson, too. Most of the other Knicks castoffs may have stuck around the league, but didn't do anything special. The players list of people the Knicks missed out on is probably more condemning than the Knicks picks who didn't work out.

This simple fact is probably why the Knicks are cursed at actually finding real pg's.

Literally haven't had one since those guys.

[Phish Tank]

When I think of blossomed I think of a guy who at least was an all-star consideration. Not a journeyman. if you gotta go back to the 80's to establish history, you already lost.

why does all-star matter? There's only 30 all stars every year, most of whom were top lottery picks. Not everyone can be an all-star. If you can get someone who can play 10-15 years in the NBA, what's wrong with that. Players barely play 10 years in the league now.

That's basically starfuqing. The same thing that plagued most fans in the Melo years.

Ariza's still in the league. And we spent nearly $30-40M trying to find someone who can do what he did. It's simple economics.

Because the term blossomed was used. If that's the case say Channing Frye blossomed.

David Lee made all-star under us, did he blossom?

idgaf about players who blossomed, I just care about players who ended up being serviceable for us.

Frye ended up having a damn good career after he left us. Stupid trade

Lee was good for us. He probably played some of his best seasons under us. We swapped him essentially for Amare. We didn't give up on him tho. Different circumstances.

[Thugger HBC]

why does all-star matter? There's only 30 all stars every year, most of whom were top lottery picks. Not everyone can be an all-star. If you can get someone who can play 10-15 years in the NBA, what's wrong with that. Players barely play 10 years in the league now.

That's basically starfuqing. The same thing that plagued most fans in the Melo years.

Ariza's still in the league. And we spent nearly $30-40M trying to find someone who can do what he did. It's simple economics.

Because the term blossomed was used. If that's the case say Channing Frye blossomed.

David Lee made all-star under us, did he blossom?

idgaf about players who blossomed, I just care about players who ended up being serviceable for us.

Frye ended up having a damn good career after he left us. Stupid trade

Lee was good for us. He probably played some of his best seasons under us. We swapped him essentially for Amare. We didn't give up on him tho. Different circumstances.

Phish, I didn't quote you. I quoted the person who used the term and was asking them.

[Thugger HBC]

When I think of blossomed I think of a guy who at least was an all-star consideration. Not a journeyman. if you gotta go back to the 80's to establish history, you already lost.

That's cause we usually trade away our good players before we draft them

But sure, let's trade Frank away for nothing right now instead of just waiting to see if his value goes up at all over the next year. Great plan.

The Shumpert plan. Probably wouldn't even get a Lance Thomas and pick this time around. Picks are more valuable now.

[K_ick_God]

We do? I'd like to know who were these "blossomed" guys we traded.

rod strickland

We had Mark Jackson as well.

Traded him too. Ariza. If you count the picks we have given up, though I admit that wasn't exactly what I was talking about -- Nuggets got a couple of good players. Bulls got Noah with a pick of ours.

I believe Utah used a pick of ours to take Kanter lol.

[Deeeez Knicks]

The only player we stupidly traded was Rod Strickland because we got rid of Mark Jackson, too. Most of the other Knicks castoffs may have stuck around the league, but didn't do anything special. The players list of people the Knicks missed out on is probably more condemning than the Knicks picks who didn't work out.

The trade for McDyess is one of the better examples of both where we gave up Camby and a pick which could have been Amare.

Camby was already good for us, so not sure if he would be considered a castoff but did win dpoty later on and peaked with the nuggets... And we actually didn't draft him either

[K_ick_God]

Yeah giving up Lee for Amare was dumb.

[K_ick_God]

The only player we stupidly traded was Rod Strickland because we got rid of Mark Jackson, too. Most of the other Knicks castoffs may have stuck around the league, but didn't do anything special. The players list of people the Knicks missed out on is probably more condemning than the Knicks picks who didn't work out.

The trade for McDyess is one of the better examples of both where we gave up Camby and a pick which could have been Amare.

Camby was already good for us, so not sure if he would be considered a castoff but did win dpoty later on and peaked with the nuggets

Yep another good example.

[K_ick_God]

To be fair, our history is more of just making bad trades by giving up too much ... no ex-Knick turned into a top tier player, like Webber or Wallace with the Wizards.

But we have gotten absolutely killed in trades in general. Not claiming I didn't support a lot of these trades though, like the Melo trade and others. I definitely have been overly optimistic. The history is full of horrible, horrible trades.

The best parallel for Frank is Ariza. Good defender, shown flashes (Ariza showed a few more) and dumped for nothing ... if we dump Frank for nothing.

Frank is going to be a good player. It would be dumb to give up on him. Kind of player you can win with as he matures. No, he's not going to be a superior offensive player but if he is a ball mover who keeps the offense flowing and can knock down some shots, that's much more valuable than a 15-20 PPG chucker like Timmy.

[DOT]

When I think of blossomed I think of a guy who at least was an all-star consideration. Not a journeyman. if you gotta go back to the 80's to establish history, you already lost.

That's cause we usually trade away our good players before we draft them

But sure, let's trade Frank away for nothing right now instead of just waiting to see if his value goes up at all over the next year. Great plan.

The Shumpert plan. Probably wouldn't even get a Lance Thomas and pick this time around. Picks are more valuable now.

Frank's value is pretty much as low as it will be

I don't know why y'all are acting like he's gonna fetch us more now than he would in a year, even if he doesn't improve we would still get a 2nd for him next year

Y'all can't talk about patience then be so quick to want to trade guys

[Thugger HBC]

rod strickland

We had Mark Jackson as well.

Traded him too. Ariza. If you count the picks we have given up, though I admit that wasn't exactly what I was talking about -- Nuggets got a couple of good players. Bulls got Noah with a pick of ours.

I believe Utah used a pick of ours to take Kanter lol.

You cant count those, they don't fit this scenario. Perhaps my definition of blossomed is rather steep.

I've seen Gallo and Chandler play really well as Knicks, I don't think they've really played that much better elsewhere to make a claim that they blossomed.

I don't think Ariza blossomed into anything other than a serviceable player. Blossomed imo would be Orlando giving up on someone like Oladipo, and then OKC doing the exact same thing.

[K_ick_God]

Thugger, if a player was traded who was doing decently for the Knicks, but fell short of expectations -- like Frye or Camby or Ariza -- but we gave him up for nothing, then what's the difference whether he blossomed or just became a good player and we got poor return for him?

Same thing.

Camby didn't really blossom after the Knicks, nor did Lee, but both played a big role. Warriors probably don't win that first title without Lee. He came in and changed the series in Cleveland with a bench spurt. Amar'e a more prolific scorer. Both bad defenders. But Lee found a way to help a team win a title. That's worth a lot.

From the Knicks' POV, the swap was terrible.

I'll amend what I said to ... If Frank is traded, it's a good sign for him because the Knicks have a history of trading away a lot more than they get back. In Frank's case, I do think he'll blossom some to become a good NBA player. He's got a lot of components of a very useful and helpful piece.

[Thugger HBC]

That's cause we usually trade away our good players before we draft them

But sure, let's trade Frank away for nothing right now instead of just waiting to see if his value goes up at all over the next year. Great plan.

The Shumpert plan. Probably wouldn't even get a Lance Thomas and pick this time around. Picks are more valuable now.

Frank's value is pretty much as low as it will be

I don't know why y'all are acting like he's gonna fetch us more now than he would in a year, even if he doesn't improve we would still get a 2nd for him next year

Y'all can't talk about patience then be so quick to want to trade guys

I'm not advocating him even being traded. I'm only thinking from mgt handling and treating of the player.

[Capn'O]

*ducks*

Spoiler:

Gallinari is currently in All Star consideration. Top 15 in rpm. Hell of a year so far.

[DOT]

The Shumpert plan. Probably wouldn't even get a Lance Thomas and pick this time around. Picks are more valuable now.

Frank's value is pretty much as low as it will be

I don't know why y'all are acting like he's gonna fetch us more now than he would in a year, even if he doesn't improve we would still get a 2nd for him next year

Y'all can't talk about patience then be so quick to want to trade guys

I'm not advocating him even being traded. I'm only thinking from mgt handling and treating of the player.

I don't think we're trading him for nothing because that's not Perry's mo

If Perry is gonna trade him, he's gonna get something back. If it were Mills I'd be less certain

[K_ick_God]

We had Mark Jackson as well.

Traded him too. Ariza. If you count the picks we have given up, though I admit that wasn't exactly what I was talking about -- Nuggets got a couple of good players. Bulls got Noah with a pick of ours.

I believe Utah used a pick of ours to take Kanter lol.

You cant count those, they don't fit this scenario. Perhaps my definition of blossomed is rather steep.

I've seen Gallo and Chandler play really well as Knicks, I don't think they've really played that much better elsewhere to make a claim that they blossomed.

I don't think Ariza blossomed into anything other than a serviceable player. Blossomed imo would be Orlando giving up on someone like Oladipo, and then OKC doing the exact same thing.

Well I disagree even on the definition of blossom I guess -- because Ariza blossomed into one of the best role players of the past however many years it's been. Ariza won a title. Played a major role. Has been a top tier role player for a while.

Traded by the Knicks because he couldn't shoot and missed a ton of shots. I think Frank and Ariza are pretty parallel actually.

Frank does need to blossom -- whereas you're right that Lee and Frye didn't really blossom so much as they just found a niche as good players, productive players. I was no fan of Lee but he was a really good scorer and again, Warriors probably don't win that first title without his play off the bench in that one game. Came in and made a big difference. Sometimes it comes down to one game.

[thebuzzardman]

DSJr seems more like the kind of guard Perry and Fiz value. Probably Mills as well.

Get er done Pills!

Trade Dotson too. Not enough wiggle in his game.