Around the NBA - the sharp end of the playoffs - Randle snubbed for All NBA

[cgmw]

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Somehow we always end up with the Thibs, Fizdales, Hornacheks of the world.

Spoiler:

Thibs is not the problem the problem is FO hires a coach and gives him bunch of role players.

Udoka would have been run out of town by now because he’d be required to “compete” behind Julius Randle plus the Elfrid Paytons, Alec Burks, Nerlens Noels and other brilliant strokes of genius from of our visionary (and thoroughly unqualified) FO.

[Chanel Bomber]

Thibs is not the problem the problem is FO hires a coach and gives him bunch of role players.

It's true, and Udoka would be set up to fail with this roster.

I think the Knicks would've put up a better fight against Atlanta with Udoka because Thibs is notoriously predictable in the playoffs, but this is just not a good team.

It starts with the coach regardless. This is also not a good teams cause Thibs is not fit for the modern NBA. I wouldnt care if the team was lacking in talent but still a smart team.... But we not.


There are plenty of teams that lack talent but play with a plan....we dont. So it dont matter what the talent level is when you out there letting Randle be your PG as the coach and give him free reign. Udoka would have chopped his head off for teh way he plays.


Udoka, Dude is no Joke. He puts the fear of God in his players you can tell, but he is a great teacher in the same breath. Thibs doesnt have that effect on this team.

Remember alot of this roster construction is BECAUSE of our Coach as well.

I think talent is far more of a difference-maker than coaching. Coaching is a ceiling raiser in my opinion (especially in the playoffs), moreso than a floor raiser (unless your coach is so far ahead of his time e.g. D'Antoni turning the Suns and Rockets into contenders).

Thibs helped the freaking Knicks make the playoffs just a year ago as the 4th seed in the East. Does that mean he's a good coach? Probably not. But let's not act like the man can't coach at all in today's NBA.

Randle was the best playmaker in the Knicks' starting line-up last year. Second-best on the team behind Rose. Rose was hurt all season long this year. Kemba was unplayable because of his defense. Randle was de facto the best playmaker remaining on the team. He sucked, he was awful, he was a disgrace, all of those things might be true, but the fact is Thibs didn't really have any reliable alternatives. Again, Randle was elevated as his franchise through his contract extension, and he had helped him reach the playoffs primarily through his playmaking. I don't think it's fair to expect Thibs to give up on Randle so fast.

Everybody here would be complaining about Udoka if he inherited this roster and predictably failed to make the playoffs. And unfairly so.

[Capn'O]

Just want to point out that if Donnie Walsh had had the balls to trade up for Steph, LeBron would have signed with the Knicks and the Knicks would have been on their way to hang their 11th straight banner.

Good night!

I think LeBron was going to play with Wade no matter what, and the Heat were the franchise with the most capspace, and Wade.

But I wonder if we wouldn't be looking back at D'Antoni having a 8-year run in New York as opposed to the disappointment his tenure turned out to be.

The 2010-11 Knicks with a young Steph and prime Amar'e running PNR would have been fun to watch, and dynamic offensively.

The pessimist would argue that Curry might have gotten traded for McGrady to clear capspace. I don't think that FO would've seen him as an expandable piece like Jordan Hill was, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

He refused to work out for GS because he wanted the Knicks. Oh well.

the steph-curry-one-pick-before-us is the biggest what if and biggest setback in franchise history. no doubt. not even close imo.

Especially when you factor in that Steve Kerr chose Golden State over us.

[TerrenceClarke]

It's true, and Udoka would be set up to fail with this roster.

I think the Knicks would've put up a better fight against Atlanta with Udoka because Thibs is notoriously predictable in the playoffs, but this is just not a good team.

It starts with the coach regardless. This is also not a good teams cause Thibs is not fit for the modern NBA. I wouldnt care if the team was lacking in talent but still a smart team.... But we not.


There are plenty of teams that lack talent but play with a plan....we dont. So it dont matter what the talent level is when you out there letting Randle be your PG as the coach and give him free reign. Udoka would have chopped his head off for teh way he plays.


Udoka, Dude is no Joke. He puts the fear of God in his players you can tell, but he is a great teacher in the same breath. Thibs doesnt have that effect on this team.

Remember alot of this roster construction is BECAUSE of our Coach as well.

I think talent is far more of a difference-maker than coaching. Coaching is a ceiling raiser in my opinion (especially in the playoffs), moreso than a floor raiser (unless your coach is so far ahead of his time e.g. D'Antoni turning the Suns and Rockets into contenders).

Thibs helped the freaking Knicks make the playoffs just a year ago as the 4th seed in the East. Does that mean he's a good coach? Probably not. But let's not act like the man can't coach at all in today's NBA.

Randle was the best playmaker in the Knicks' starting line-up last year. Second-best on the team behind Rose. Rose was hurt all season long this year. Kemba was unplayable because of his defense. Randle was de facto the best playmaker remaining on the team. He sucked, he was awful, he was a disgrace, all of those things might be true, but the fact is Thibs didn't really have any reliable alternatives. Again, Randle was elevated as his franchise through his contract extension, and he had helped him reach the playoffs primarily through his playmaking. I don't think it's fair to expect Thibs to give up on Randle so fast.

Everybody here would be complaining about Udoka if he inherited this roster and predictably failed to make the playoffs. And unfairly so.

You litterally be arguing against your own points I notice. In one Breath you stay getting on Thibs and constanlty harp on how one of the main reasons this team sucks is cause thibs is not a fit for the modern NBA, but now you defending him to have an argument against what I said.

[BKlutch]

KD is dumb

He is a follower, not a leader. His mother tells him what to do and Flatso (Kyrie) also tells him what to do. He is not strong minded and can't assess situations well, on his own. Just compare how Giannis, Lebron, Steph, Tatum, and others help their teams to do better and make great in-game and long-term decisions. Look how badly KD does at that. In fact, he still believes he can be the reason a team wins the chip. Na ah.

Of course, he's an extremely talented player, but as Galvation said, he's dumb.

[Chanel Bomber]

It starts with the coach regardless. This is also not a good teams cause Thibs is not fit for the modern NBA. I wouldnt care if the team was lacking in talent but still a smart team.... But we not.


There are plenty of teams that lack talent but play with a plan....we dont. So it dont matter what the talent level is when you out there letting Randle be your PG as the coach and give him free reign. Udoka would have chopped his head off for teh way he plays.


Udoka, Dude is no Joke. He puts the fear of God in his players you can tell, but he is a great teacher in the same breath. Thibs doesnt have that effect on this team.

Remember alot of this roster construction is BECAUSE of our Coach as well.

I think talent is far more of a difference-maker than coaching. Coaching is a ceiling raiser in my opinion (especially in the playoffs), moreso than a floor raiser (unless your coach is so far ahead of his time e.g. D'Antoni turning the Suns and Rockets into contenders).

Thibs helped the freaking Knicks make the playoffs just a year ago as the 4th seed in the East. Does that mean he's a good coach? Probably not. But let's not act like the man can't coach at all in today's NBA.

Randle was the best playmaker in the Knicks' starting line-up last year. Second-best on the team behind Rose. Rose was hurt all season long this year. Kemba was unplayable because of his defense. Randle was de facto the best playmaker remaining on the team. He sucked, he was awful, he was a disgrace, all of those things might be true, but the fact is Thibs didn't really have any reliable alternatives. Again, Randle was elevated as his franchise through his contract extension, and he had helped him reach the playoffs primarily through his playmaking. I don't think it's fair to expect Thibs to give up on Randle so fast.

Everybody here would be complaining about Udoka if he inherited this roster and predictably failed to make the playoffs. And unfairly so.

You litterally be arguing against your own points I notice. In one Breath you stay getting on Thibs and constanlty harp on how one of the main reasons this team sucks is cause thibs is not a fit for the modern NBA, but now you defending him to have an argument against what I said.

No, I just don't believe in either extreme.

I don't think he's either a good/great coach or a bad/terrible coach.

I think he has been an average coach - now trending towards mediocre - who brings positives and negatives.

I do think he can coach in the modern NBA, as evidenced by the job he did last year, but I don't think he's fit for the playoffs, because of his unwillingness to adjust.

[cgmw]

I think talent is far more of a difference-maker than coaching. Coaching is a ceiling raiser in my opinion (especially in the playoffs), moreso than a floor raiser (unless your coach is so far ahead of his time e.g. D'Antoni turning the Suns and Rockets into contenders).

Thibs helped the freaking Knicks make the playoffs just a year ago as the 4th seed in the East. Does that mean he's a good coach? Probably not. But let's not act like the man can't coach at all in today's NBA.

Randle was the best playmaker in the Knicks' starting line-up last year. Second-best on the team behind Rose. Rose was hurt all season long this year. Kemba was unplayable because of his defense. Randle was de facto the best playmaker remaining on the team. He sucked, he was awful, he was a disgrace, all of those things might be true, but the fact is Thibs didn't really have any reliable alternatives. Again, Randle was elevated as his franchise through his contract extension, and he had helped him reach the playoffs primarily through his playmaking. I don't think it's fair to expect Thibs to give up on Randle so fast.

Everybody here would be complaining about Udoka if he inherited this roster and predictably failed to make the playoffs. And unfairly so.

You litterally be arguing against your own points I notice. In one Breath you stay getting on Thibs and constanlty harp on how one of the main reasons this team sucks is cause thibs is not a fit for the modern NBA, but now you defending him to have an argument against what I said.

No, I just don't believe in either extreme.

I don't think he's either a good/great coach or a bad/terrible coach.

I think he has been an average coach - now trending towards mediocre - who brings positives and negatives.

I do think he can coach in the modern NBA, as evidenced by the job he did last year, but I don't think he's fit for the playoffs, because of his unwillingness to adjust.

Thibs is a disaster of a coach for the same reason Fizdale was a disaster — they were both hired by unqualified executives grasping at straws to pretend like the Knicks are some sort of destination for superstars.

Leon Rose has no shot of success here, and therefore literally any coach he hires will also fail.

The only question in the Dolan organization is how far downhill will the sh*t roll before the latest round of stooges get fired.

[TerrenceClarke]

I think talent is far more of a difference-maker than coaching. Coaching is a ceiling raiser in my opinion (especially in the playoffs), moreso than a floor raiser (unless your coach is so far ahead of his time e.g. D'Antoni turning the Suns and Rockets into contenders).

Thibs helped the freaking Knicks make the playoffs just a year ago as the 4th seed in the East. Does that mean he's a good coach? Probably not. But let's not act like the man can't coach at all in today's NBA.

Randle was the best playmaker in the Knicks' starting line-up last year. Second-best on the team behind Rose. Rose was hurt all season long this year. Kemba was unplayable because of his defense. Randle was de facto the best playmaker remaining on the team. He sucked, he was awful, he was a disgrace, all of those things might be true, but the fact is Thibs didn't really have any reliable alternatives. Again, Randle was elevated as his franchise through his contract extension, and he had helped him reach the playoffs primarily through his playmaking. I don't think it's fair to expect Thibs to give up on Randle so fast.

Everybody here would be complaining about Udoka if he inherited this roster and predictably failed to make the playoffs. And unfairly so.

You litterally be arguing against your own points I notice. In one Breath you stay getting on Thibs and constanlty harp on how one of the main reasons this team sucks is cause thibs is not a fit for the modern NBA, but now you defending him to have an argument against what I said.

No, I just don't believe in either extreme.

I don't think he's either a good/great coach or a bad/terrible coach.

I think he has been an average coach - now trending towards mediocre - who brings positives and negatives.

I do think he can coach in the modern NBA, as evidenced by the job he did last year, but I don't think he's fit for the playoffs, because of his unwillingness to adjust.

But there is no Extreme here tho. Im pretty sure you can see that Udoka actually fits what you want from a modern NBA coach. Thats the only context that my original point resides in. We picked the name over the new wave cat. We all know the main reason thibs was hired was cause he was such a big name, but this coaching hire set this franchise back for one of teh main reasons is that he had way to much input on this roster and he ALWAYS sucked at talent evaluation.

Wether thibs can coach or not....he was the wrong choice for this roster and where we needed to be at .

[Chanel Bomber]

You litterally be arguing against your own points I notice. In one Breath you stay getting on Thibs and constanlty harp on how one of the main reasons this team sucks is cause thibs is not a fit for the modern NBA, but now you defending him to have an argument against what I said.

No, I just don't believe in either extreme.

I don't think he's either a good/great coach or a bad/terrible coach.

I think he has been an average coach - now trending towards mediocre - who brings positives and negatives.

I do think he can coach in the modern NBA, as evidenced by the job he did last year, but I don't think he's fit for the playoffs, because of his unwillingness to adjust.

But there is no Extreme here tho. Im pretty sure you can see that Udoka actually fits what you want from a modern NBA coach. Thats the only context that my original point resides in. We picked the name over the new wave cat. We all know the main reason thibs was hired was cause he was such a big name, but this coaching hire set this franchise back for one of teh main reasons is that he had way to much input on this roster and he ALWAYS sucked at talent evaluation.

Wether thibs can coach or not....he was the wrong choice for this roster and where we needed to be at .

Udoka is quite clearly a better coach than Thibs.

So the Knicks would be better off with him than Thibs.

But I don't think Udoka could succeed with this roster, or under this front office. He would be set up to fail, because the roster isn't good, and Leon Rose and Scott Perry have proven to make the wrong personnel moves (Derrick Rose trade aside). And when the results don't follow, the wolves (meaning Knicks fans) are out. They always are. Look at how the pendulum swung from last year to this year in the way the average Knicks fan talked about Thibs.

I am not sure how much input Thibs has over personnel decisions. He wanted Bullock back. They didn't give him that, and it was a massive blunder. Thibs certainly didn't want Fournier. I think these things are known. He's one voice among several. They'll throw him a bone and give him what he wants every now and then but I don't think he's pulling the strings.

[Jimmit79]

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RJ didn't get invited seems lol probably packing his bags for Portland soon.

[Chanel Bomber]

You litterally be arguing against your own points I notice. In one Breath you stay getting on Thibs and constanlty harp on how one of the main reasons this team sucks is cause thibs is not a fit for the modern NBA, but now you defending him to have an argument against what I said.

No, I just don't believe in either extreme.

I don't think he's either a good/great coach or a bad/terrible coach.

I think he has been an average coach - now trending towards mediocre - who brings positives and negatives.

I do think he can coach in the modern NBA, as evidenced by the job he did last year, but I don't think he's fit for the playoffs, because of his unwillingness to adjust.

Thibs is a disaster of a coach for the same reason Fizdale was a disaster — they were both hired by unqualified executives grasping at straws to pretend like the Knicks are some sort of destination for superstars.

Leon Rose has no shot of success here, and therefore literally any coach he hires will also fail.

The only question in the Dolan organization is how far downhill will the sh*t roll before the latest round of stooges get fired.

I agree with the big picture but there's a significant difference between Thibs and Fizdale.

Thibs is maddeningly stubborn, but he's a competent NBA coach. He had proven it before (at least in the regular season). Fizdale could've walked the corridors of MSG with clown shoes on and nobody would have noticed the difference. Listening to his interviews, I'm not sure he really understood half the words he was using to talk basketball.

[cgmw]

No, I just don't believe in either extreme.

I don't think he's either a good/great coach or a bad/terrible coach.

I think he has been an average coach - now trending towards mediocre - who brings positives and negatives.

I do think he can coach in the modern NBA, as evidenced by the job he did last year, but I don't think he's fit for the playoffs, because of his unwillingness to adjust.

Thibs is a disaster of a coach for the same reason Fizdale was a disaster — they were both hired by unqualified executives grasping at straws to pretend like the Knicks are some sort of destination for superstars.

Leon Rose has no shot of success here, and therefore literally any coach he hires will also fail.

The only question in the Dolan organization is how far downhill will the sh*t roll before the latest round of stooges get fired.

I agree with the big picture but there's a significant difference between Thibs and Fizdale.

Thibs is maddeningly stubborn, but he's a competent NBA coach. He had proven it before (at least in the regular season). Fizdale could've walked the corridors of MSG with clown shoes on and nobody would have noticed the difference. Listening to his interviews, I'm not sure he really understood half the words he was using to talk basketball.

I get that. However:

Fizdale: Hired b/c he’s buddies with Lebron and will “make MSG cool again” in lead up to massive FA superstar recruitment push.

Thibs: Hired to make MSG look “respectable again” in lead up to massive superstar trade push by Leon “godfather” Rose.

It’s exactly the same delusional cronyism spineless shortcut (small d*ck) energy we’ve seen time and again from Dolan.

[Reign23]

No, I just don't believe in either extreme.

I don't think he's either a good/great coach or a bad/terrible coach.

I think he has been an average coach - now trending towards mediocre - who brings positives and negatives.

I do think he can coach in the modern NBA, as evidenced by the job he did last year, but I don't think he's fit for the playoffs, because of his unwillingness to adjust.

Thibs is a disaster of a coach for the same reason Fizdale was a disaster — they were both hired by unqualified executives grasping at straws to pretend like the Knicks are some sort of destination for superstars.

Leon Rose has no shot of success here, and therefore literally any coach he hires will also fail.

The only question in the Dolan organization is how far downhill will the sh*t roll before the latest round of stooges get fired.

I agree with the big picture but there's a significant difference between Thibs and Fizdale.

Thibs is maddeningly stubborn, but he's a competent NBA coach. He had proven it before (at least in the regular season). Fizdale could've walked the corridors of MSG with clown shoes on and nobody would have noticed the difference. Listening to his interviews, I'm not sure he really understood half the words he was using to talk basketball.

agree.

[KnicksGadfly]

Bunch of posters here argued with me about how Thibs tenure in Minnesota was a big win. It definitely wasn’t. During that tenure, Thibs let Jimmy Butler walk over him and undermine his credibility as a coach. But at least Jimmy was actually playing winning basketball (when he wasn’t sitting out). Over here, Thibs let another player walk all over him and undermine him, except he wasn’t playing winning basketball. He’s still the best we’ve had in a while, sadly enough.

But if we really need to get rid of Thibs, we gotta reboot everything. Revamp the FO…get rid of the rot. Hire someone from a winning franchise with real experience. Tell Dolan to swallow his pride and hire someone from the Spurs or Warriors tree. Or pay Masai 50 billion a year.

[Chanel Bomber]

Thibs is a disaster of a coach for the same reason Fizdale was a disaster — they were both hired by unqualified executives grasping at straws to pretend like the Knicks are some sort of destination for superstars.

Leon Rose has no shot of success here, and therefore literally any coach he hires will also fail.

The only question in the Dolan organization is how far downhill will the sh*t roll before the latest round of stooges get fired.

I agree with the big picture but there's a significant difference between Thibs and Fizdale.

Thibs is maddeningly stubborn, but he's a competent NBA coach. He had proven it before (at least in the regular season). Fizdale could've walked the corridors of MSG with clown shoes on and nobody would have noticed the difference. Listening to his interviews, I'm not sure he really understood half the words he was using to talk basketball.

I get that. However:

Fizdale: Hired b/c he’s buddies with Lebron and will “make MSG cool again” in lead up to massive FA superstar recruitment push.

Thibs: Hired to make MSG look “respectable again” in lead up to massive superstar trade push by Leon “godfather” Rose.

It’s exactly the same delusional cronyism spineless shortcut (small d*ck) energy we’ve seen time and again from Dolan.

Making the Knicks respectable again - which Thibs helped achieve against all odds last years - is not necessarily a terrible approach. The issue is that last year's success wasn't sustainable, and the Knicks already are no longer respectable.

The superstar trade isn't necessarily a bad idea either. The problem is that they had a lot of valuable assets in a time where no superstar was available via trade, and now the value of their assets has rapidly depreciated, to the point where they likely can't compete with other offers for the elusive superstar. That window has likely shut, and with them adding salary around this core, they have likely painted themselves back in a corner of futility and mediocrity, which as we know is the worst place to be in as an organization.

My point is, these aren't necessarily undesirable goals. The trouble is that they were respectively unsustainable and unrealistic. I wouldn't mind a hybrid approach where the Knicks blow up this core and develop their young player under Thibs's tutelage. Trading Randle and Volde for draft capital and clearing some rotation logjams via trade would seem like the sensible approach to me. I like the idea of owning draft capital from other teams.

Not in favor of body shaming Dolan or anybody. His stupidity and short-sightedness as an owner explain his failures well enough.

[cgmw]

I agree with the big picture but there's a significant difference between Thibs and Fizdale.

Thibs is maddeningly stubborn, but he's a competent NBA coach. He had proven it before (at least in the regular season). Fizdale could've walked the corridors of MSG with clown shoes on and nobody would have noticed the difference. Listening to his interviews, I'm not sure he really understood half the words he was using to talk basketball.

I get that. However:

Fizdale: Hired b/c he’s buddies with Lebron and will “make MSG cool again” in lead up to massive FA superstar recruitment push.

Thibs: Hired to make MSG look “respectable again” in lead up to massive superstar trade push by Leon “godfather” Rose.

It’s exactly the same delusional cronyism spineless shortcut (small d*ck) energy we’ve seen time and again from Dolan.

Making the Knicks respectable again - which Thibs helped achieve against all odds last years - is not necessarily a terrible approach. The issue is that last year's success wasn't sustainable, and the Knicks already are no longer respectable.

The superstar trade isn't necessarily a bad idea either. The problem is that they had a lot of valuable assets in a time where no superstar was available via trade, and now the value of their assets has rapidly depreciated, to the point where they likely can't compete with other offers for the elusive superstar. That window has likely shut, and with them adding salary around this core, they have likely painted themselves back in a corner of futility and mediocrity, which as we know is the worst place to be in as an organization.

My point is, these aren't necessarily undesirable goals. The trouble is that they were respectively unsustainable and unrealistic. I wouldn't mind a hybrid approach where the Knicks blow up this core and develop their young player under Thibs's tutelage. Trading Randle and Volde for draft capital and clearing some rotation logjams via trade would seem like the sensible approach to me. I like the idea of owning draft capital from other teams.

Not in favor of body shaming Dolan or anybody. His stupidity and short-sightedness as an owner explain his failures well enough.

I’m not sure that “energy” is body shaming but ok!

Hiring a veteran “win now” coach while having one of the worst rosters in the league = unmitigated disaster.

Any fantasy of Thibs magically attracting veteran superstars to make us immediate contenders is exactly that — delusional fantasy. There’s just absolutely no version of possible outcomes where CAA/Kentucky breezes in to make the Knicks a contender.

It was the same underlying delusion of our owner refusing to accept reality that nobody wants him, which is what we saw when they hired the young hip Fizdale, which is why the one and only way a Dolan team wins a ‘chip is if we somehow draft a generational superstar who is forced to play here.

[Iron Mantis]

It's true, and Udoka would be set up to fail with this roster.

I think the Knicks would've put up a better fight against Atlanta with Udoka because Thibs is notoriously predictable in the playoffs, but this is just not a good team.

It starts with the coach regardless. This is also not a good teams cause Thibs is not fit for the modern NBA. I wouldnt care if the team was lacking in talent but still a smart team.... But we not.


There are plenty of teams that lack talent but play with a plan....we dont. So it dont matter what the talent level is when you out there letting Randle be your PG as the coach and give him free reign. Udoka would have chopped his head off for teh way he plays.


Udoka, Dude is no Joke. He puts the fear of God in his players you can tell, but he is a great teacher in the same breath. Thibs doesnt have that effect on this team.

Remember alot of this roster construction is BECAUSE of our Coach as well.

I think talent is far more of a difference-maker than coaching. Coaching is a ceiling raiser in my opinion (especially in the playoffs), moreso than a floor raiser (unless your coach is so far ahead of his time e.g. D'Antoni turning the Suns and Rockets into contenders).

Thibs helped the freaking Knicks make the playoffs just a year ago as the 4th seed in the East. Does that mean he's a good coach? Probably not. But let's not act like the man can't coach at all in today's NBA.

Randle was the best playmaker in the Knicks' starting line-up last year. Second-best on the team behind Rose. Rose was hurt all season long this year. Kemba was unplayable because of his defense. Randle was de facto the best playmaker remaining on the team. He sucked, he was awful, he was a disgrace, all of those things might be true, but the fact is Thibs didn't really have any reliable alternatives. Again, Randle was elevated as his franchise through his contract extension, and he had helped him reach the playoffs primarily through his playmaking. I don't think it's fair to expect Thibs to give up on Randle so fast.

Everybody here would be complaining about Udoka if he inherited this roster and predictably failed to make the playoffs. And unfairly so.

Thibs reputation may have had something to do with the team's playoff run, but I attribute more of the team's success last year to Randle's all-NBA season and his leadership, and D.Rose.

Was Randle playing for a contract? Was it the empty gym? Only Randle knows.

But if it were Thibs that made Randle level up(the source of the team's success), then Randle would have repeated last season's performance this year.

[Chanel Bomber]

It starts with the coach regardless. This is also not a good teams cause Thibs is not fit for the modern NBA. I wouldnt care if the team was lacking in talent but still a smart team.... But we not.


There are plenty of teams that lack talent but play with a plan....we dont. So it dont matter what the talent level is when you out there letting Randle be your PG as the coach and give him free reign. Udoka would have chopped his head off for teh way he plays.


Udoka, Dude is no Joke. He puts the fear of God in his players you can tell, but he is a great teacher in the same breath. Thibs doesnt have that effect on this team.

Remember alot of this roster construction is BECAUSE of our Coach as well.

I think talent is far more of a difference-maker than coaching. Coaching is a ceiling raiser in my opinion (especially in the playoffs), moreso than a floor raiser (unless your coach is so far ahead of his time e.g. D'Antoni turning the Suns and Rockets into contenders).

Thibs helped the freaking Knicks make the playoffs just a year ago as the 4th seed in the East. Does that mean he's a good coach? Probably not. But let's not act like the man can't coach at all in today's NBA.

Randle was the best playmaker in the Knicks' starting line-up last year. Second-best on the team behind Rose. Rose was hurt all season long this year. Kemba was unplayable because of his defense. Randle was de facto the best playmaker remaining on the team. He sucked, he was awful, he was a disgrace, all of those things might be true, but the fact is Thibs didn't really have any reliable alternatives. Again, Randle was elevated as his franchise through his contract extension, and he had helped him reach the playoffs primarily through his playmaking. I don't think it's fair to expect Thibs to give up on Randle so fast.

Everybody here would be complaining about Udoka if he inherited this roster and predictably failed to make the playoffs. And unfairly so.

Thibs reputation may have had something to do with the team's playoff run, but I attribute more of the team's success last year to Randle's all-NBA season and his leadership, and D.Rose.

Was Randle playing for a contract? Was it the empty gym? Only Randle knows.

But if it were Thibs that made Randle level up(the source of the team's success), then Randle would have repeated last season's performance this year.

D-Rose, the bench play, our 3-point shooting and our defense all had a bigger impact on our success than Randle's individual play, although his playmaking did help our 3-point shooting, and he contributed to it by having a career year from 3 himself.

I don't think it was all Thibs, nor do I think it was all Randle.

I don't think Thibs "made" Randle level up, but last year's team was much better than the sum of its parts, and coaching played a massive role in that. The team really bought in to Thibs's defensive schemes, and the offense worked better than the personnel on paper suggested it would.

I'm not a Thibs fan, but nobody can deny that he did an amazing job in the regular season. He predictably faltered in the playoffs.

[Marty McFly]

Just want to point out that if Donnie Walsh had had the balls to trade up for Steph, LeBron would have signed with the Knicks and the Knicks would have been on their way to hang their 11th straight banner.

Good night!

I think LeBron was going to play with Wade no matter what, and the Heat were the franchise with the most capspace, and Wade.

But I wonder if we wouldn't be looking back at D'Antoni having a 8-year run in New York as opposed to the disappointment his tenure turned out to be.

The 2010-11 Knicks with a young Steph and prime Amar'e running PNR would have been fun to watch, and dynamic offensively.

The pessimist would argue that Curry might have gotten traded for McGrady to clear capspace. I don't think that FO would've seen him as an expandable piece like Jordan Hill was, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

He refused to work out for GS because he wanted the Knicks. Oh well.

the steph-curry-one-pick-before-us is the biggest what if and biggest setback in franchise history. no doubt. not even close imo.

There’s no reason this team shouldn’t have like 15 chip banners hanging from the rafters.we could have had Kareem and drj at the same time, all the while we still had Willis and Clyde. They just consistently hedge on their bets and when they don’t they make terrible decisions.

[Iron Mantis]

It's true, and Udoka would be set up to fail with this roster.

I think the Knicks would've put up a better fight against Atlanta with Udoka because Thibs is notoriously predictable in the playoffs, but this is just not a good team.

It starts with the coach regardless. This is also not a good teams cause Thibs is not fit for the modern NBA. I wouldnt care if the team was lacking in talent but still a smart team.... But we not.


There are plenty of teams that lack talent but play with a plan....we dont. So it dont matter what the talent level is when you out there letting Randle be your PG as the coach and give him free reign. Udoka would have chopped his head off for teh way he plays.


Udoka, Dude is no Joke. He puts the fear of God in his players you can tell, but he is a great teacher in the same breath. Thibs doesnt have that effect on this team.

Remember alot of this roster construction is BECAUSE of our Coach as well.

I think talent is far more of a difference-maker than coaching. Coaching is a ceiling raiser in my opinion (especially in the playoffs), moreso than a floor raiser (unless your coach is so far ahead of his time e.g. D'Antoni turning the Suns and Rockets into contenders).

Thibs helped the freaking Knicks make the playoffs just a year ago as the 4th seed in the East. Does that mean he's a good coach? Probably not. But let's not act like the man can't coach at all in today's NBA.

Randle was the best playmaker in the Knicks' starting line-up last year. Second-best on the team behind Rose. Rose was hurt all season long this year. Kemba was unplayable because of his defense. Randle was de facto the best playmaker remaining on the team. He sucked, he was awful, he was a disgrace, all of those things might be true, but the fact is Thibs didn't really have any reliable alternatives. Again, Randle was elevated as his franchise through his contract extension, and he had helped him reach the playoffs primarily through his playmaking. I don't think it's fair to expect Thibs to give up on Randle so fast.

Everybody here would be complaining about Udoka if he inherited this roster and predictably failed to make the playoffs. And unfairly so.

Brooklyn Nets say "hello".

I think coaching is more important, because coaches can contribute to making players, and teams, grow and develop...but players can't do much to make a coach(especially stubborn ones) become better at the nuances of coaching.