Update: Shams says NY/Utah have began trade discussions for Donovan Mitchell part 3

[snadler]

I know we are all anxious and want something done, but also have to realize the longer it takes the better the outcome it will be in terms of cost

That didnt work out for Carmelo. The longer it took the more Dolan got involved and forced for more players to be included.

We need this to get done today or this weekend.

Here’s why this is obviously wrong, the melo trade happened mid season, there are months till training camp even begins. Also the nuggets used the nets as leverage. Ainge doesn’t have any leverage

[nedleeds]

I want the Knicks to take this into the season. Jazz wont be good so they will become more desperate to trade Mitchell. At the same time, we will get a chance to see if Obi, Quickley, and Grimes growth and potentially increase their value. Lets say Grimes starts and is playing well, that would def increase his trade value.

I still think Jazz will be good with the Wolves deal. One more year and Jazz make playoffs and DM is running the show without Rudy. He might end up wanting to stay? I'm also ready to take that chance and see what happens.

But it's a really good draft with a unicorn at the 1 spot. Every year you treadmill is lost draft equity and a shot at a top 15 player. The deal will get done because the Knicks GM is Mitchell's agent -- if Donovan wants New York it'll get done to keep him happy.

[TheGreenArrow]

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[thebuzzardman]

It’s actually kind of crazy that Brunson, Barrett and Randle are prob the three best offensive players Mitchell will have played with (don’t give me spot up TS% warriors)

The most exciting team we've had since 2013. I want this. and imagine RJ takes a leap and Randle becomes efficient playing next to competent guards

Frankly, if you can keep RJ and Grimes, I don't really care that much about the picks

Brunson/Rose
Mitchell/Grimes
RJ/
Randle/
Mitch/Hart

We'd be a bit thin on forwards, but we'd still be good

RJ and Randle taking a backseat to Mitchell as the lead scorer with Brunson as a distributor would do wonders for their efficiency

The problem is, we'd be weak on defense with that backcourt, and you do absolutely need that depth to make it through the season, and we'd struggle to fill out the roster given the lack of picks and cap space, but if you're a good enough GM, you can find those types of guys

Would be a pretty fun roster.

I'm greedy.
Want to keep Grimes and Obi.

They can have IQ and Cam.

I'd fall back to keeping Grimes and Cam, since Cam can back up 3 and 4.

[Fury]

Good Warriors fan and very knowledgeable dude I know had this to say:

I hope those trade offers are Ainge media plants, cuz that might be even worse than the Gobert trade. He’s an inefficient undersized guard that’s probably a #3 on a contender. I’d maybe give up 2-3 protected picks and some salary filler. What leverage do the Jazz have?

A little harsh on Mitchell but agree with overall point.

a little harsh?

he really isn't inefficient anymore especially tasked with his high usage. A #3...he led the #1 offense in the NBA recently...he is a #1 type or a #1B type.

Yeah, just sounds like a stuck up Warriors fan snob

[Monk1718]

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Jesus the media is eating this up. They’ll just regurgitate what we already heard.

[Kampuchea]

Good Warriors fan and very knowledgeable dude I know had this to say:

I hope those trade offers are Ainge media plants, cuz that might be even worse than the Gobert trade. He’s an inefficient undersized guard that’s probably a #3 on a contender. I’d maybe give up 2-3 protected picks and some salary filler. What leverage do the Jazz have?

A little harsh on Mitchell but agree with overall point.

[G_K_F]

Good Warriors fan and very knowledgeable dude I know had this to say:

I hope those trade offers are Ainge media plants, cuz that might be even worse than the Gobert trade. He’s an inefficient undersized guard that’s probably a #3 on a contender. I’d maybe give up 2-3 protected picks and some salary filler. What leverage do the Jazz have?

A little harsh on Mitchell but agree with overall point.

a little harsh?

he really isn't inefficient anymore especially tasked with his high usage. A #3...he led the #1 offense in the NBA recently...he is a #1 type or a #1B type.

There is no way Mitchell is a #1 option on a championship.

A little harsh would be #3. I'll say #2 is fine.

But you're not going to win anything with Mitchell as your best player and that's been proven with a better roster than ours.

You also cannot convince me a lineup with poor shooting, undersized backcourt and a poor man's Gobert (Robinson) is going to somehow be a better team than Utah now or in the future. Unless the hope is that RJ becomes a #1 option.

[EricAnderson]

they don’t give out banners for the mythical concept of contending. 29 other teams contended. They lost. Logic

you’re right as long as you take context completely out of it

There one of the youngest teams in the league who were two wins away from a title no there is never a guarantee of anything especially winning a title considering how hard it is but I’d sure love to trade places with them for the next few years as would most teams lol

I agree but my overall point that is being missed here was that if it were the Knicks in the exact same situation, people would be saying what I’m saying about Boston. Both our own fans and national media. They would crap on our Tatum for choking in the finals, say they’re a fraud, say the team has “peaked” and time to blow it up I am playing devil’s advocate for the toxic negativity that will surround this franchise unless they win the championship and NOTHING LESS.

So you guys, if the Knicks go to the ECF a few times and don’t win you gonna sing their praises like you are Boston now?

It all depends on the context

If we had young players who were currently or about to become great top of the league players you need to win titles then yeah I’d be excited

If it was a situation like Atlanta had a few years back where they won a ton of regular season games and made the ECF with guys like Korver Horford etc but you knew they had no chance to win a title because they had no great top of the league player then no

Toronto with Derozan and Lowry was on that same projectory till they got lucky with Kawhi for a year

[thebuzzardman]

Here is the thing that confuses me. All the media seem to be parroting the younger cost controlled guys of IQ,Obi,Grimes,McBride as what Ainge wants. How does that even work salary matching wise? All the latest reports don't mention at least one of Fournier or Rose being involved.

I think a trade is nearly impossible without Fournier unless it's Randle.

I suppose no Fournier but Rose is possible, but that means at the least Obi and Cam and it's still not there.

So, Fournier has to be in every deal. Maybe it's such a given they are leaving it out.

[KnicksNext]

Spida is not a pg.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Brunson is no playmaker either he calls his own number and scores on his own

Good thing we have our point forward in Randle

[K_ick_God]

Thank you for posting this. Dead on. There is literally NO ONE ELSE at the level Mitchell to be had in the next 2+ years. You make a deal no matter the cost if you can add a player at Mitchell's level. Obviously I don't want to give up what it will take, but what other option does this franchise have? You're kidding yourself if you think Brunson plus Obi/IQ/Grimes are going to take us anywhere.

This is a star's league, and Mitchell is a star. And 25 years old. Make the damn deal.

What has Mitchell ever won? How far did Utah get with him AND ANOTHER ALL STAR, DPOY? What makes him a star? Randle was an all-star. People around here don't seem to value him so much now. Mitchell is 6'1." Now if you're talking MARKETING, okay. A star IN THAT SENSE. But be honest. If it's just about selling ticket and merch, it's understandable. But he's not leading us the the Finals.

Is Obi, IQ or Grimes leading us to a Finals?

They could be part of a really good team, we'll know more next year. I'd rather see what they do on the court, they're still young, than take your word for it Mr. T-Williams Superstar Nostradamus.

[GONYK]

I feel like Perry is Leon Rose and WWW secretary at this point. He isn't final say on the draft that is Walt Perrin, he isn't the cap/asset expert like Brock Aller, and he isn't his right hand man like Leon Rose.

He is probably just picks up the phone and calls other GM's.

I just wouldn't call this rebuilding through the draft...we are asset accumulating for a trade. Most of our young guys and picks are pieces to land a big fish.

What OKC, ORL, HOU, DET are doing is building through the draft.

We got all those assets through the draft and we're (reportedly) refusing to trade our young guys. We built through the draft.

What OKC is doing is also building through the draft. They will eventually also consolidate many of these young guys and picks and trade them when the time is right.

Both of these things can be true. That is my only point.

They might consolidate some pieces but overall there goal is to draft and develop these players. Our goal is to draft and then find a suitable trade partner. Its why OKC doesn't sign middling vets to play over there young guys like we do.

Its why they draft or trade for projects like Dieng because that is part of building through the draft, internal development

We can have a separate discussion about why operating that way makes more sense for OKC than it does NY, but that is a different scope from my entire point.

We are in a different position today than we were 3 years ago. The reason we are in that position is almost entirely because of our draft strategy. We would not have acquired Grimes, Obi, IQ, Deuce, Sims, Rokas and 11 first rounders which constitute our asset base, if not for utilizing the draft as our primary driver for building a roster that is able to acquire a star.

Agree or disagree?

Discussions around if this draft strategy is better than the more traditional OKC one is valid, but tangential to my point.

[nedleeds]

I changed my mind about RJ. I liked him as a prospect, but admitted I was wrong and changed my mind once I accepted the overwhelming statistical evidence that he sucks.

People can't separate "I hate RJ Barrett" and "I hate that RJ Barrett isn't good".

I hate that RJ Barrett isn't good. I hate that I wasn't wrong about him after watching him be so terrible at Duke.

I would love for his shooting to take an absolutely unheard of historical leap if he's still on the roster. But I'm not NYK Mentality, I can't just create false hope based on MSG propaganda. I think I'm just too old and have seen it too many times before.

[poeman]

The slander damn...

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[robillionaire]

Who on our team is the next Jaylen Brown?

If there was a next Jaylen Brown it would be RJ and we are retaining him.

Headlines - Sir Rob Illionaire a noted RJ hater and founding member of RJ haters club has bent the knee.

Watch on YouTube

[stuporman]

Hmm...only 25 pages since I slept, that means nothing happened or it would be 125 pages.

[thebuzzardman]

this deal is not happening

don't look like it right now. it he ends up somewhere else, leon might as well start packing.

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It’s happening and you’ll like it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It has always come down to this for me:

It's going to cost, that's a given
Avoid the Ainge raping, and get it to where it costs more than we probably all like, but not where it's bad.
This is aside silly arguments like "I like IQ better than Grimes" or "Screw Obi"
Also, I get some trades leave a better balanced bench than others, and I wouldn't like it, but it's just one player over the line instead of all of them, then I can live with, but not like it.

Bad = 6 picks (a given) but also Obi, Grimes, IQ, Cam, McBride
Great = 6 picks (a given), IQ and McBride
Can live with it: 6 picks (a given), IQ, Cam or IQ, Grimes

[mpharris36]

Good Warriors fan and very knowledgeable dude I know had this to say:



A little harsh on Mitchell but agree with overall point.

a little harsh?

he really isn't inefficient anymore especially tasked with his high usage. A #3...he led the #1 offense in the NBA recently...he is a #1 type or a #1B type.

There is no way Mitchell is a #1 option on a championship.

A little harsh would be #3. I'll say #2 is fine.

But you're not going to win anything with Mitchell as your best player and that's been proven with a better roster than ours.

You also cannot convince me a lineup with poor shooting, undersized backcourt and a poor man's Gobert (Robinson) is going to somehow be a better team than Utah now or in the future. Unless the hope is that RJ becomes a #1 option.

No one says he has to be your best player. But he can be your #1 option late in games. You might need an all around better player and I agree...something along the lines of a Kawhi a 2-way wing. But in terms of someone that can lead you offense...he has for sure proven he can be that.

[KnicksGadfly]

Thank you for posting this. Dead on. There is literally NO ONE ELSE at the level Mitchell to be had in the next 2+ years. You make a deal no matter the cost if you can add a player at Mitchell's level. Obviously I don't want to give up what it will take, but what other option does this franchise have? You're kidding yourself if you think Brunson plus Obi/IQ/Grimes are going to take us anywhere.

This is a star's league, and Mitchell is a star. And 25 years old. Make the damn deal.

What has Mitchell ever won? How far did Utah get with him AND ANOTHER ALL STAR, DPOY? What makes him a star? Randle was an all-star. People around here don't seem to value him so much now. Mitchell is 6'1." Now if you're talking MARKETING, okay. A star IN THAT SENSE. But be honest. If it's just about selling ticket and merch, it's understandable. But he's not leading us the the Finals.

Is Obi, IQ or Grimes leading us to a Finals?

Nope. There's apparently a prospect in the 2023 NBA draft that's the best since Lebron, though, and the draft itself is purported to be very strong. If we want those prospects, we better be ready to tank for them cause like someone alluded to above, the 1A options are locked up. We can't keep trying to make these trades for top 5 prospects from pick 11. It's stupid, unnecessary and wasteful. The only other player who might have this capability, provided he isn't soft as Charmin, is KD.

Mitchell is extremely good and the fact that we can tamper is a good sign, but we need this type of player once the foundation is set. At the very least, we need to avoid making him our foundation by giving away the farm and keeping options open for the next tampering. A team of Mitchell, Brunson and RJ seems to be treading around Chicago Bulls territory imo, or even below that. If we get Mitchell, we need to hope he can help tamper with someone else, and that requires more assets.