[Camelo Thread Part 11] - Knicks make offer? Pg 82

[GONYK]

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to post the whole thing. Morey just says Rockets back in the game with Nets bowing out. If it's gotta be a rental then we will try.

It will be interesting to see what market Houston sets as the rental price. I respect your GM so curious to see what he is willing to pony up because then he is taking the risk that he loses Melo for nothing this summer which is what Denver is trying to avoid.

Houston understands going in that Melo isn't resigning. They are more interested about what they can get from the Knicks in the summer.

[seren]

You have to give it to Morey and Houston ownership for their desire to put a winning team on the floor.

[Jay10]

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to post the whole thing. Morey just says Rockets back in the game with Nets bowing out. If it's gotta be a rental then we will try.

It will be interesting to see what market Houston sets as the rental price. I respect your GM so curious to see what he is willing to pony up because then he is taking the risk that he loses Melo for nothing this summer which is what Denver is trying to avoid.

didn't a reporter ask carmelo about going to houston and he said "to do what, rap?"

[throwbackewing33]

This whole saga is getting extremely old. I would love nothing more than for this to all come to an end. Do I want Melo on the Knicks? Absolutely! I am with those who believe Melo, Amare, and Felton is a great core in their prime. You put the right defensive pieces around them and you have a contender. We have talked this to death but its a superstar's league and by having both Amare and Melo, you set yourself up to atleast compete with the Elite teams.

The key to making a Melo/Amare Knick team a contender will be having the right pieces around them. If we trade talent for Melo to get him here midseason, we will not be a contender. I dont plan on competing for a championship this season, Melo or no Melo. This is why I am going against all my current emotions and wanting instant gratification. I think Donnie will persevere and will let Melo come to NY on his own this summer. This is the only way we will have enough assets to build a team around him and Amare. By trading a combo of Fields, Gallo, Chandler and whatever else, we lose depth and flexibility. Talent wise, yes it would be a fair trade, but in the grand scheme you cant argue that waiting till the summer doesnt put us in a better situation.

yes there is a risk of him going else where. but it wouldnt be the end of the world with our cap flexibility. but all signs are pointing to Melo wanting to come here. Its a risk you take if you ask me.

[knicks742]

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to post the whole thing. Morey just says Rockets back in the game with Nets bowing out. If it's gotta be a rental then we will try.

It will be interesting to see what market Houston sets as the rental price. I respect your GM so curious to see what he is willing to pony up because then he is taking the risk that he loses Melo for nothing this summer which is what Denver is trying to avoid.

Houston understands going in that Melo isn't resigning. They are more interested about what they can get from the Knicks in the summer.

Understood but I am curious what they are willing to give up to get him there and then flip him in the summer. At the end of the day, I think it's logical to expect that Denver will take the best offer so will they be able to beat an offer by us. That's what I am curious about.

[cgmw]

$40M comes out to $10M per year over 4 years.

I hate Chad Ford and, by extension, Marc Stein. But I don't think that's what they're saying KG.

Let's take it one step at a time.

First, if he takes the extension, he'd get his $16.5 million next season. Then he'd get 3 more years at 65 on top of that. That's a total of 4 years, $77 m. After those years are up, there would then be the possibility that his next contract is based off his previous one even with a new CBA.

But let's say he opts out. How much would that initial check be worth? It looks like the Knicks could clear about $14 million. Is that enough? Well that's $2.5 million lost right there. After that, how much will the 3 year extension be for? Will it even be 3 years? After that, how much will his next contract be for? Presumably less if it's based off his previous salary.

When you look at it as money over the rest of Carmelo's career (instead of just the next 4 years), it very well could end up being $30 - 40 million. I think that's a high estimate, but it's definitely possible.

Bottom line is Carmelo would be crazy not to sign an extension IMO.

[god shammgod]

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to post the whole thing. Morey just says Rockets back in the game with Nets bowing out. If it's gotta be a rental then we will try.

good. if houston does that there's no way he'll stay. we'll get him even cheaper.

[K_ick_God]

$40M comes out to $10M per year over 4 years.

I hate Chad Ford and, by extension, Marc Stein. But I don't think that's what they're saying KG.

Let's take it one step at a time.

First, if he takes the extension, he'd get his $16.5 million next season. Then he'd get 3 more years at 65 on top of that. That's a total of 4 years, $77 m. After those years are up, there would then be the possibility that his next contract is based off his previous one even with a new CBA.

But let's say he opts out. How much would that initial check be worth? It looks like the Knicks could clear about $14 million. Is that enough? Well that's $2.5 million lost right there. After that, how much will the 3 year extension be for? Will it even be 3 years? After that, how much will his next contract be for? Presumably less if it's based off his previous salary.

When you look at it as money over the rest of Carmelo's career (instead of just the next 4 years), it very well could end up being $30 - 40 million. I think that's a high estimate, but it's definitely possible.

Bottom line is Carmelo would be crazy not to sign an extension IMO.

No, they're saying $40M over the same number of years, not factoring in the next contract after the next contract.

It won't even be CLOSE to $40M. I'd be very surprised if it's even 15% of that. It's a joke.

The only thing that wouldn't shock me is about 5-8% less than a current max. I could see having Melo and Paul and D-Wil and those guys making about 5-8% less than Rudy Gay and company. Any more than that is never going to happen. 5-8% would come out to about $4M total max over the life of a contract.

[GONYK]

Understood but I am curious what they are willing to give up to get him there and then flip him in the summer. At the end of the day, I think it's logical to expect that Denver will take the best offer so will they be able to beat an offer by us. That's what I am curious about.

Denver is very very cool to the idea of dealing with Houston. Will they beat our offer? No.

They will match it, but go no higher.

[K_ick_God]

Marc Stein did say this. I think his opinions about this are obviously biased though.

Word is Denver, furthermore, does now concede that negotiating more seriously with the Knicks is unavoidable, as our own Chris Sheridan has laid out, since New York is still the only team that Anthony is definitely willing to extend with.

[cgmw]

No, they're saying $40M over the same number of years, not factoring in the next contract after the next contract.

It won't even be CLOSE to $40M. I'd be very surprised if it's even 15% of that. It's a joke.

The only thing that wouldn't shock me is about 5-8% less than a current max. I could see having Melo and Paul and D-Wil and those guys making about 5-8% less than Rudy Gay and company. Any more than that is never going to happen. 5-8% would come out to about $4M total max over the life of a contract.

The owners will probably cite Rudy Gay as the problem with the MAX salary structure. You and ESPN can't possibly be that far apart in estimates. But I guess that's the point. Anything can happen here. As much as you, Ford, and Stein follow basketball, you're really not qualified to estimate the terms of the new CBA. To me, it's the uncertainty itself that makes it a no-brainer for Carmelo to re-up under the current agreement. Trying to guess the differences is a waste of time and potentially very dangerous.

I bet plenty of people didn't see it coming when the last CBA scaled back Kevin Garnett's huge salary. A-Rod made a quarter billion in baseball, but that comparison didn't translate to the NBA. No offense, but I don't buy into your estimates any more than I do Stein or Ford's.

[xsaberx]

$40M comes out to $10M per year over 4 years.

I hate Chad Ford and, by extension, Marc Stein. But I don't think that's what they're saying KG.

Let's take it one step at a time.

First, if he takes the extension, he'd get his $16.5 million next season. Then he'd get 3 more years at 65 on top of that. That's a total of 4 years, $77 m. After those years are up, there would then be the possibility that his next contract is based off his previous one even with a new CBA.

But let's say he opts out. How much would that initial check be worth? It looks like the Knicks could clear about $14 million. Is that enough? Well that's $2.5 million lost right there. After that, how much will the 3 year extension be for? Will it even be 3 years? After that, how much will his next contract be for? Presumably less if it's based off his previous salary.

When you look at it as money over the rest of Carmelo's career (instead of just the next 4 years), it very well could end up being $30 - 40 million. I think that's a high estimate, but it's definitely possible.

Bottom line is Carmelo would be crazy not to sign an extension IMO.

It makes absolutely no sense that the next CBA will decrease salary cap, and decrease the amount players can sign for, but not decrease current salaries. This would cripple most teams. For instance Rashard Lewis in Washington will make $23,790,000 in 2012/2013, Brand and Igoudala will make about 33 mil in Phili the same year. If the amount players can sign for goes down, so will current salaries accordingly - it has to happen, because anything else would leave the league in shambles for about 4 to 5 years. And if they add a hard cap, there is no way that all salaries don't go down, because they won't be able to fit. Are the lakers going to have to give away players? They are on the books for 92 mil next year. All changes will effect everyone, and it will be even and fair.

[J9Starks3]

The other thing to factor in is the "Grandfather" clause that happened in the last lockout... unless they get a hardcap, then most likely existing contracts get grandfathered in and they will have the same "30% or 105% of your previous contract" type of provision.

Meaning, lets say the starting max salaries go down, even as far as 10 million a year. Current contracts are not going to get rolled back, so what theyll do is say its for any new contract...the first year salary will be the greatest of whatever the number is, say 10 million, OR 105% of your previous years contract... thus giving the old guys an out....

[ibraheim718]

Uriji and Kroenke will basically concede (although not publicly) that the Kid holds the better hand. His unwillingness to sign an extension card trumps their thought the new CBA will scare him into signing the extension card. He's in the prime of his earning years, he's good at what he does, fans are still packing arenas and buying jersey's and the demand for players like him is still there so the money for him will be there regardless of what the CBA looks like. It's time for Denver to fold before they end up broke or "Bosh'd".

[czoneny]

Uriji and Kroenke will basically concede (although not publicly) that the Kid holds the better hand. His unwillingness to sign an extension card trumps their thought the new CBA will scare him into signing the extension card. He's in the prime of his earning years, he's good at what he does, fans are still packing arenas and buying jersey's and the demand for players like him is still there so the money for him will be there regardless of what the CBA looks like. It's time for Denver to fold.

I think Denver is gonna give it one last attempt to pull the wool over Donnies eyes, soon we will be hearing about intense talks with the Bulls, Rockets and some other random team like the Mavericks to try to get Walsh to panic.

[moocow007]

The only rental team I am remotely afraid of is Dallas because they could compete this year and win, which would make it tough on Melo to leave. Houston is going nowhere and there is no chance he resigns there.

They have nothing to give. The legend of Rodrique Beaubois is like the Abominable Snowman and Bigfoot.

[ibraheim718]

Uriji and Kroenke will basically concede (although not publicly) that the Kid holds the better hand. His unwillingness to sign an extension card trumps their thought the new CBA will scare him into signing the extension card. He's in the prime of his earning years, he's good at what he does, fans are still packing arenas and buying jersey's and the demand for players like him is still there so the money for him will be there regardless of what the CBA looks like. It's time for Denver to fold.

I think Denver is gonna give it one last attempt to pull the wool over Donnies eyes, soon we will be hearing about intense talks with the Bulls, Rockets and some other random team like the Mavericks to try to get Walsh to panic.

Absolutely... But time is running out for them. Maybe they've decided they are going to take this all the way to the deadline. But it won't go any further than that.

[moocow007]

Sooooooo Nuggets fans still believe that Melo was legitimately interested in the Nets. I can't make this stuff up

Much like coacaine is a helluva drug, denial is as well.

[czoneny]

Sooooooo Nuggets fans still believe that Melo was legitimately interested in the Nets. I can't make this stuff up

Much like coacaine is a helluva drug, denial is as well.

TheRebel is the biggest tool on that forum, I can't believe hes a mod.

[ibraheim718]

The only rental team I am remotely afraid of is Dallas because they could compete this year and win, which would make it tough on Melo to leave. Houston is going nowhere and there is no chance he resigns there.

They have nothing to give. The legend of Rodrique Beaubois is like the Abominable Snowman and Bigfoot.

hahaha... Roddy "bucket's". Even if he was healthy he couldn't take BArea's minutes. OT for a sec you know what I love about JJ he's small enough to go over the screens. I can't stand it when PG's go under the screens.