2020-2021 College/Draft Thread Part 3

[jvsimonetti0514]

I feel bad for cgf cuz with this Boston/OKC trade there's no way Ziare is going to make it to us at 19

[3toheadmelo]

Its too bad he blew up in the tournament cause before that he was in our range

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[jvsimonetti0514]

gun to your head you taking bones or mann?

I'm surprised no one else touched this cuz it's a really good question. Gun to my head, I think I go with Mann but it's really close. I trust Tre more as a playmaker, I think he's a better athlete, and is better in PNR. Bones is more of a well rounded scorer, he actually has an off ball game. There's some upside as a movement shooter as well. I also like his defensive upside more than Tre cuz Bone's has crazy long arms. I think the think that worries me the most about Bone is how skinny he is and worried he might get beat up. If we somehow drafted both of them, I'd probably start Bones at the 2 and let Tre play Burks role off the bench. You're really can't go wrong with either of them though.

I don't agree with the bolded part. Athleticm is probably the one thing, that is holding Tre back from going higher in the draft. To me, he's a below-average NBA athlete, who already struggled in college getting to the rim or defending the POA. With Bones, while also not being known for his athleticm, you at least get some with a solid first step as well as a good ability to decelerate. On the flip side he's physically very weak, but it's not like Tre's a strong dude himself.

I gave my answer to the question in an earlier discussion in this thread. To me, it depends on the draft slot. If you can get Bones with our 2nd round pick, I prefer taking him instead of using a first rounder on Tre. If you'd have to use a 1st rounder on both, it gets severely trickier. They both probably will be negatives on the defensive end, so it's an offensive question. If you believe Tre's playmaking flashes are real, the choice gotta be him. If not, then it's Bones, since he's shown more Off-Ball flashes as well as the ability to get to the rim (who knows how his finishing will be tho because of the lack of strength).

I definitely agree with you that Tre isn't a plus NBA athlete, although I wouldn't say he's below average like you but that's a very valid debate to have. I wonder how much of the advantages you see is cuz Bones played a lower level of competition. Is he really a better athlete or is he just playing a bunch of meh teams in the A10 conference? Obi was a man amongst boys in the A10 and we saw how large of a learning curve it was for him in the NBA and his athleticism definitely jumped off the screen. I worry since Bones athleticism didn't really job off the screen like that he's just looking quick verse the rest of the A10. I definitely could be wrong but VCU didn't really play anyone of note either. I think they only played two games against power 5 conference teams (Penn State & WVU) and he struggled against both of those teams.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

how far up can #19, #32, and DAL 2023 pick get us?

The Dallas 2023 pick just got a lot more valuable with the turmoil over there, I'd rather hold off on including it in any deals.

being top 10 protected still limits its value because if they truly do go in the **** they will just keep there pick. I mean it could always be 11 or something like that. But I wouldn't really care about dealing it because it never could be high enough where we would be pissed if we moved it.

I still wouldn't do it, we don't have enough assets and actual talent on our team to be throwing away a pick like that. There's very little chance the Mavs will be in the top 10 of the lottery, Luka is entirely too good on his own for that to happen but they could end up 14-20, right? Kawhi, Giannis and Donovan were drafted 15, 15 and 13, whose to say we can't move up in a better draft in 2023 with our own pick and the Mavs pick, what if the 2023 draft is better than this one?

[mpharris36]

The Dallas 2023 pick just got a lot more valuable with the turmoil over there, I'd rather hold off on including it in any deals.

being top 10 protected still limits its value because if they truly do go in the **** they will just keep there pick. I mean it could always be 11 or something like that. But I wouldn't really care about dealing it because it never could be high enough where we would be pissed if we moved it.

I still wouldn't do it, we don't have enough assets and actual talent on our team to be throwing away a pick like that. There's very little chance the Mavs will be in the top 10 of the lottery, Luka is entirely too good on his own for that to happen but they could end up 14-20, right? Kawhi, Giannis and Donovan were drafted 15, 15 and 13, whose to say we can't move up in a better draft in 2023 with our own pick and the Mavs pick, what if the 2023 draft is better than this one?

thats why you pay them the big bucks. What if they peg Bouknight as a really good prospect and need to get up to 10 to get him. What if they feel he is going to be a star?

I'm not saying I would do it but I'm just saying if they truly believe trading up is worth it because they believe a big time piece is there at lets just say #10...I don't mind if they have some conviction.

[robillionaire]

The Dallas 2023 pick just got a lot more valuable with the turmoil over there, I'd rather hold off on including it in any deals.

being top 10 protected still limits its value because if they truly do go in the **** they will just keep there pick. I mean it could always be 11 or something like that. But I wouldn't really care about dealing it because it never could be high enough where we would be pissed if we moved it.

I still wouldn't do it, we don't have enough assets and actual talent on our team to be throwing away a pick like that. There's very little chance the Mavs will be in the top 10 of the lottery, Luka is entirely too good on his own for that to happen but they could end up 14-20, right? Kawhi, Giannis and Donovan were drafted 15, 15 and 13, whose to say we can't move up in a better draft in 2023 with our own pick and the Mavs pick, what if the 2023 draft is better than this one?

Booker too. Adebayo. SGA. Lots of good players potentially there 11-15 every single year

I don’t really like anyone in this draft in that range, that’s why I agree and wouldn’t trade up. But if these scouts feel differently and are super high on someone and wish to consolidate the picks, they can shoot their shot. We aren’t going to be playing or paying a bunch of rookies anyway

[robillionaire]

being top 10 protected still limits its value because if they truly do go in the **** they will just keep there pick. I mean it could always be 11 or something like that. But I wouldn't really care about dealing it because it never could be high enough where we would be pissed if we moved it.

I still wouldn't do it, we don't have enough assets and actual talent on our team to be throwing away a pick like that. There's very little chance the Mavs will be in the top 10 of the lottery, Luka is entirely too good on his own for that to happen but they could end up 14-20, right? Kawhi, Giannis and Donovan were drafted 15, 15 and 13, whose to say we can't move up in a better draft in 2023 with our own pick and the Mavs pick, what if the 2023 draft is better than this one?

thats why you pay them the big bucks. What if they peg Bouknight as a really good prospect and need to get up to 10 to get him. What if they feel he is going to be a star?

I'm not saying I would do it but I'm just saying if they truly believe trading up is worth it because they believe a big time piece is there at lets just say #10...I don't mind if they have some conviction.

I wonder if we should trust their conviction. Remember they wanted to trade up for Toppin.

Perrin was a Utah scout when they traded 14 and 21 for the 9th pick Trey Burke when Giannis was selected 15th. And McCollum 10th

I dunno how much confidence I have in them to get it right one way or the other

[mpharris36]

I still wouldn't do it, we don't have enough assets and actual talent on our team to be throwing away a pick like that. There's very little chance the Mavs will be in the top 10 of the lottery, Luka is entirely too good on his own for that to happen but they could end up 14-20, right? Kawhi, Giannis and Donovan were drafted 15, 15 and 13, whose to say we can't move up in a better draft in 2023 with our own pick and the Mavs pick, what if the 2023 draft is better than this one?

thats why you pay them the big bucks. What if they peg Bouknight as a really good prospect and need to get up to 10 to get him. What if they feel he is going to be a star?

I'm not saying I would do it but I'm just saying if they truly believe trading up is worth it because they believe a big time piece is there at lets just say #10...I don't mind if they have some conviction.

I wonder if we should trust their conviction. Remember they wanted to trade up for Toppin.

Perrin was a Utah scout when they traded 14 and 21 for the 9th pick Trey Burke when Giannis was selected 15th. And McCollum 10th

I dunno how much confidence I have in them to get it right one way or the other

I don't think Perrin had much say in the Toppin pick. That seemed like a Leon pick.

Maybe Perrin has more say in this draft.

We shall see.

[robillionaire]

thats why you pay them the big bucks. What if they peg Bouknight as a really good prospect and need to get up to 10 to get him. What if they feel he is going to be a star?

I'm not saying I would do it but I'm just saying if they truly believe trading up is worth it because they believe a big time piece is there at lets just say #10...I don't mind if they have some conviction.

I wonder if we should trust their conviction. Remember they wanted to trade up for Toppin.

Perrin was a Utah scout when they traded 14 and 21 for the 9th pick Trey Burke when Giannis was selected 15th. And McCollum 10th

I dunno how much confidence I have in them to get it right one way or the other

I don't think Perrin had much say in the Toppin pick. That seemed like a Leon pick.

Maybe Perrin has more say in this draft.

We shall see.

Yeah, I kinda agree with you though. I’m just kicking back not sweating it and letting the scouts do their jobs and will roll with whatever they do. There’s just nobody I’m overly excited about and I hope they nail a sleeper pick.

[mpharris36]

I wonder if we should trust their conviction. Remember they wanted to trade up for Toppin.

Perrin was a Utah scout when they traded 14 and 21 for the 9th pick Trey Burke when Giannis was selected 15th. And McCollum 10th

I dunno how much confidence I have in them to get it right one way or the other

I don't think Perrin had much say in the Toppin pick. That seemed like a Leon pick.

Maybe Perrin has more say in this draft.

We shall see.

Yeah, I kinda agree with you though. I’m just kicking back not sweating it and letting the scouts do their jobs and will roll with whatever they do. There’s just nobody I’m overly excited about and I hope they nail a sleeper pick.

Obviously this draft is top 4 heavy with a couple guys in the 5-14 range that might be really good.

But I do believe the next range that is interesting is that 15-25 range. Might get some value there. So I agree I don't think the knicks need to trade up.

However if they do peg one guy as the guy then sure move up. At this point I am looking for quality rather than quantity. Not too many rookies are going to be rostered and be in the rotation with thibs.

[louisorr]

I don't think Perrin had much say in the Toppin pick. That seemed like a Leon pick.

Maybe Perrin has more say in this draft.

We shall see.

Yeah, I kinda agree with you though. I’m just kicking back not sweating it and letting the scouts do their jobs and will roll with whatever they do. There’s just nobody I’m overly excited about and I hope they nail a sleeper pick.

Obviously this draft is top 4 heavy with a couple guys in the 5-14 range that might be really good.

But I do believe the next range that is interesting is that 15-25 range. Might get some value there. So I agree I don't think the knicks need to trade up.

However if they do peg one guy as the guy then sure move up. At this point I am looking for quality rather than quantity. Not too many rookies are going to be rostered and be in the rotation with thibs.

Other than the sure things (top few picks) it's basically a crapshoot. 4/5ths of the Hawks starters are 19, 19, 25 and 27th picks.

[TheGreenArrow]

JT THOR FOLKS JT THOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WargamesX]

JT THOR FOLKS JT THOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was heavy into Trey Murphy but JT Thor looks nice like him but in different ways. Potentially a much higher ceiling too. Especially if they think they can transition him to SF. He wouldn’t be a 3&D wing either. His two dribble drives are really good, also the pump fake drives. Those are glimpses to his game from highlight videos that makes it looks like there is something there. PF’s are usually guys who can’t make those type of drives. Like how young Gallo wasn’t considered a PF until he got older Thor could develop the same way.

[TheGreenArrow]

JT THOR FOLKS JT THOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was heavy into Trey Murphy but JT Thor looks nice like him but in different ways. Potentially a much higher ceiling too. Especially if they think they can transition him to SF. He wouldn’t be a 3&D wing either. His two dribble drives are really good, also the pump fake drives. Those are glimpses to his game from highlight videos that makes it looks like there is something there. PF’s are usually guys who can’t make those type of drives. Like how young Gallo wasn’t considered a PF until he got older Thor could develop the same way.

Yep exactly!!!!!

[WargamesX]

JT THOR FOLKS JT THOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was heavy into Trey Murphy but JT Thor looks nice like him but in different ways. Potentially a much higher ceiling too. Especially if they think they can transition him to SF. He wouldn’t be a 3&D wing either. His two dribble drives are really good, also the pump fake drives. Those are glimpses to his game from highlight videos that makes it looks like there is something there. PF’s are usually guys who can’t make those type of drives. Like how young Gallo wasn’t considered a PF until he got older Thor could develop the same way.

Yep exactly!!!!!

We have two picks are we’re not world beaters yet. I could see them grabbing him

[TheGreenArrow]

I was heavy into Trey Murphy but JT Thor looks nice like him but in different ways. Potentially a much higher ceiling too. Especially if they think they can transition him to SF. He wouldn’t be a 3&D wing either. His two dribble drives are really good, also the pump fake drives. Those are glimpses to his game from highlight videos that makes it looks like there is something there. PF’s are usually guys who can’t make those type of drives. Like how young Gallo wasn’t considered a PF until he got older Thor could develop the same way.

Yep exactly!!!!!

We have two picks are we’re not world beaters yet. I could see them grabbing him

He has “Walt Perrin type of pick” written all over him!!!!!!!!

[TheGreenArrow]

My top 5 Knick big board:

1.JT Thor
2.James Boucknight
3.Josh Giddey
4.Zaire Williams
5.Bj Boston

Honorable mention:Tre Mann

Leave this draft with any of these 5 or a combination of them and it’s a A+ Night for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Celo]

I'm surprised no one else touched this cuz it's a really good question. Gun to my head, I think I go with Mann but it's really close. I trust Tre more as a playmaker, I think he's a better athlete, and is better in PNR. Bones is more of a well rounded scorer, he actually has an off ball game. There's some upside as a movement shooter as well. I also like his defensive upside more than Tre cuz Bone's has crazy long arms. I think the think that worries me the most about Bone is how skinny he is and worried he might get beat up. If we somehow drafted both of them, I'd probably start Bones at the 2 and let Tre play Burks role off the bench. You're really can't go wrong with either of them though.

I don't agree with the bolded part. Athleticm is probably the one thing, that is holding Tre back from going higher in the draft. To me, he's a below-average NBA athlete, who already struggled in college getting to the rim or defending the POA. With Bones, while also not being known for his athleticm, you at least get some with a solid first step as well as a good ability to decelerate. On the flip side he's physically very weak, but it's not like Tre's a strong dude himself.

I gave my answer to the question in an earlier discussion in this thread. To me, it depends on the draft slot. If you can get Bones with our 2nd round pick, I prefer taking him instead of using a first rounder on Tre. If you'd have to use a 1st rounder on both, it gets severely trickier. They both probably will be negatives on the defensive end, so it's an offensive question. If you believe Tre's playmaking flashes are real, the choice gotta be him. If not, then it's Bones, since he's shown more Off-Ball flashes as well as the ability to get to the rim (who knows how his finishing will be tho because of the lack of strength).

I definitely agree with you that Tre isn't a plus NBA athlete, although I wouldn't say he's below average like you but that's a very valid debate to have. I wonder how much of the advantages you see is cuz Bones played a lower level of competition. Is he really a better athlete or is he just playing a bunch of meh teams in the A10 conference? Obi was a man amongst boys in the A10 and we saw how large of a learning curve it was for him in the NBA and his athleticism definitely jumped off the screen. I worry since Bones athleticism didn't really job off the screen like that he's just looking quick verse the rest of the A10. I definitely could be wrong but VCU didn't really play anyone of note either. I think they only played two games against power 5 conference teams (Penn State & WVU) and he struggled against both of those teams.

The competition, or better said the lack of, is definitely a fair argument. I didn't want to imply that Bones has a lightning quick 1st step. I just feel like in comparison to Tre he looked quicker. Tho that may be because he seems to utilize the leverage he creates because of the range of his jumpshot better.

But I stand by the decelaration part. At latest since Harden & Luka we know how much value the ability to decelarate has in today's league, and I feel like that's really a strength of Bones. So in that facet of athleticm, I'm pretty confident that Bones is more athletic/ however you want to phrase it. But you're obviously right, the overall athleticm is definitely debatable. My take on that is that both guys won't be considered good athletes in the league, with the exception of Bones deceleration ability. So if I'm making the choice between both of them, athleticm wouldn't be a decisive factor, at least not for me.

[newyorker4ever]

The more i see Miles McBride the more he looks like a Thibs kind of player. He would have helped us out a lot against Atl too.

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This kid is a M.Smart with better offense.

[WargamesX]

My top 5 Knick big board:

1.JT Thor
2.James Boucknight
3.Josh Giddey
4.Zaire Williams
5.Bj Boston

Honorable mention:Tre Mann

Leave this draft with any of these 5 or a combination of them and it’s a A+ Night for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It’s a lot of talent for guys who should be there at 19. A lot more than most years. The top 5 are so talented it pushed everyone down so guys would all be a few spots higher in most drafts.

I would add Duarte to that list. He is a walking bucket like Alec Burke but less of a chucker if his shot is missing. He is older, but his game isn’t based on strength so it’s not as worrisome.