OT: NFL Draft Thread

[mpharris36]

More minority ownership would help. If the claim is that even if its not overt racism. That deep down people tend to have there own implicit bias. But at the end of the day you can't tell an owner who he can and can't hire. That isn't the solution.

I just don't think after basically 10 abysmal years and people calling for Mara's head the giants chose a coach because of race. From most accounts Mara wanted Flores. Schoen just got to pick his guy and because of his relationship with Daboll, Daboll was always the man to beat once Schoen got the job. To chose a coach that could either potentially fix there failed #6 pick Daniel Jones...or eventually find there new QB like he helped them do up in Buffalo.

[TerrenceClarke]

And so it begins....

Hue Jackson suggests he was paid extra for losses as Browns head coach

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/02/hue-jackson-suggests-he-was-paid-extra-for-losses-as-browns-head-coach/

[blueNorange]

And so it begins....

Hue Jackson suggests he was paid extra for losses as Browns head coach

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/02/hue-jackson-suggests-he-was-paid-extra-for-losses-as-browns-head-coach/

soo this means unlike flores, hue took the extra money since he only has like 1-2 wins in his career

either outcome hue looks bad.

[blueNorange]

11-44, either hue sucks at coaching or he made extra cash on the side and threw his team under the bus.

[TerrenceClarke]

So Flores basically says the downfall of their relationship with the Dolphins management was that he would not play ball and throw games, and they resented him.... "how dare this N word not follow our instructions"..... Hmmmmm.

Yet, he is painted as being difficult just because he is. And this is who Schoen was supposed to trust had no Bias..




Fuuccck the Dolphins FO and Owner.

[mpharris36]

So Flores basically says the downfall of their relationship with the Dolphins management was that he would not play ball and throw games, and they resented him.... "how dare this N word not follow our instructions"..... Hmmmmm.

Yet, he is painted as being difficult just because he is. And this is who Schoen was supposed to trust had no Bias..




Fuuccck the Dolphins FO and Owner.

To be fair we need to hear both sides because Chris Grier the GM (who is also black). Supposedly had a horrible relationship with Flores. Flores wanted to trade for Watson and Grier wanted to keep Tua who he drafted.

Flores reportedly wanted more power than Grier and that is when he got fired. I don't see why they would keep Flores for 2 years after he "disobeyed" there instructions to tank. Anything is possible though.

But to make that claim I would hope Flores has more evidence then hearsay.

[GONYK]

Regardless to how you feel about Flores' claims, what is the solution? This issue starts way before the NFL level. These guys know each other from college too. Relationships run deep. The guys in charge hire who they trust or who their friends trust to make decisions. How does the NFL solve this other than mandating the hiring of black coaches/GMs?

This is not an NFL issue, they can't solve it. Its up to the OWNERS to solve. And because the NFL can't make the owners hire anyone. This wont really change in a wide scope. You will have maybe 1 or 2 that will be scared, But there is nothing the NFL can do to tell Billionaries they have to change the way they been thinking for decades? nah. Goodell works for the Owners. Its not the other way around. Unless we optimistic of Owners changing Bias(I'm not), then there is no solution on a wide scale, cause the NFL has tried their BEST to create pipelines and all ways for black coaches to level up to no Avail.

More minority ownership would help. If the claim is that even if its not overt racism. That deep down people tend to have there own implicit bias. But at the end of the day you can't tell an owner who he can and can't hire. That isn't the solution.

I just don't think after basically 10 abysmal years and people calling for Mara's head the giants chose a coach because of race. From most accounts Mara wanted Flores. Schoen just got to pick his guy and because of his relationship with Daboll, Daboll was always the man to beat once Schoen got the job. To chose a coach that could either potentially fix there failed #6 pick Daniel Jones...or eventually find there new QB like he helped them do up in Buffalo.

Not to be glib or dismissive, because I am totally sensitive to what Flores is trying to change and address (even if I don't think the Giants violated the rule). John Thompson was talking about it 30 years ago:

Read on Twitter

?s=21

But the only solution would essentially be to have a system where there are more black billionaires.

That is not something that could be remedied through the courts, or through "genuine effort and dialogue" or anything else that is currently happening. You either force the people in power now to hire people they don't know/trust/prefer or you change all the fundamental systems that allowed those people to attain power in the first place.

I just don't see any way that this ends that would be productive or meaningful.

[mpharris36]

Regardless to how you feel about Flores' claims, what is the solution? This issue starts way before the NFL level. These guys know each other from college too. Relationships run deep. The guys in charge hire who they trust or who their friends trust to make decisions. How does the NFL solve this other than mandating the hiring of black coaches/GMs?

This is not an NFL issue, they can't solve it. Its up to the OWNERS to solve. And because the NFL can't make the owners hire anyone. This wont really change in a wide scope. You will have maybe 1 or 2 that will be scared, But there is nothing the NFL can do to tell Billionaries they have to change the way they been thinking for decades? nah. Goodell works for the Owners. Its not the other way around. Unless we optimistic of Owners changing Bias(I'm not), then there is no solution on a wide scale, cause the NFL has tried their BEST to create pipelines and all ways for black coaches to level up to no Avail.

More minority ownership would help. If the claim is that even if its not overt racism. That deep down people tend to have there own implicit bias. But at the end of the day you can't tell an owner who he can and can't hire. That isn't the solution.

I just don't think after basically 10 abysmal years and people calling for Mara's head the giants chose a coach because of race. From most accounts Mara wanted Flores. Schoen just got to pick his guy and because of his relationship with Daboll, Daboll was always the man to beat once Schoen got the job. To chose a coach that could either potentially fix there failed #6 pick Daniel Jones...or eventually find there new QB like he helped them do up in Buffalo.

Not to be glib or dismissive, because I am totally sensitive to what Flores is trying to change and address (even if I don't think the Giants violated the rule). John Thompson was talking about it 30 years ago:

Read on Twitter

?s=21

But the only solution would essentially be to have a system where there are more black billionaires.

That is not something that could be remedied through the courts, or through "genuine effort and dialogue" or anything else that is currently happening. You either force the people in power now to hire people they don't know/trust/prefer or you change all the fundamental systems that allowed those people to attain power in the first place.

I just don't see any way that this ends that would be productive or meaningful.

Agreed 1000% and there is def an implicit bias that goes into a lot of coaching hires. The young offensive minded coordinator craze tend to be all young white guys. So I def understand that. We all talk about the McVay types or even the Zac Taylor...but there never seems to be any deviation towards all the failed coaches that might not have as much coaching experience as others getting passed up on.

In this case Daboll is very qualified for the giants job as he has spend many years as an OC and recently helped developed one of the best young QB's in the league. But there is def an issue where younger white coaches tend to have to have less of a resume to get a job then a minority coach. That is the macro issue I was mentioning the other day. The Rooney Rule while maybe the right intentions to get minority candidates in front of ownership...clearly doesn't solve the issue that as these teams are conducting interviews there is a good change these teams already have a favorite candidate whether that be from prior relationships or wanting to copy cat the league whether its poaching a GM/HC from a successful org.

[TerrenceClarke]

Regardless to how you feel about Flores' claims, what is the solution? This issue starts way before the NFL level. These guys know each other from college too. Relationships run deep. The guys in charge hire who they trust or who their friends trust to make decisions. How does the NFL solve this other than mandating the hiring of black coaches/GMs?

This is not an NFL issue, they can't solve it. Its up to the OWNERS to solve. And because the NFL can't make the owners hire anyone. This wont really change in a wide scope. You will have maybe 1 or 2 that will be scared, But there is nothing the NFL can do to tell Billionaries they have to change the way they been thinking for decades? nah. Goodell works for the Owners. Its not the other way around. Unless we optimistic of Owners changing Bias(I'm not), then there is no solution on a wide scale, cause the NFL has tried their BEST to create pipelines and all ways for black coaches to level up to no Avail.

More minority ownership would help. If the claim is that even if its not overt racism. That deep down people tend to have there own implicit bias. But at the end of the day you can't tell an owner who he can and can't hire. That isn't the solution.

I just don't think after basically 10 abysmal years and people calling for Mara's head the giants chose a coach because of race. From most accounts Mara wanted Flores. Schoen just got to pick his guy and because of his relationship with Daboll, Daboll was always the man to beat once Schoen got the job. To chose a coach that could either potentially fix there failed #6 pick Daniel Jones...or eventually find there new QB like he helped them do up in Buffalo.

Not to be glib or dismissive, because I am totally sensitive to what Flores is trying to change and address (even if I don't think the Giants violated the rule). John Thompson was talking about it 30 years ago:

Read on Twitter

?s=21

But the only solution would essentially be to have a system where there are more black billionaires.

That is not something that could be remedied through the courts, or through "genuine effort and dialogue" or anything else that is currently happening. You either force the people in power now to hire people they don't know/trust/prefer or you change all the fundamental systems that allowed those people to attain power in the first place.

I just don't see any way that this ends that would be productive or meaningful.

That video with Thompson sums up what I said about Flores. He had to be Perfect to beat Daboll. How can you be perfect against a stacked deck. They will find ways to NOT hire youm then TO hire you.

[TerrenceClarke]

So Flores basically says the downfall of their relationship with the Dolphins management was that he would not play ball and throw games, and they resented him.... "how dare this N word not follow our instructions"..... Hmmmmm.

Yet, he is painted as being difficult just because he is. And this is who Schoen was supposed to trust had no Bias..




Fuuccck the Dolphins FO and Owner.

To be fair we need to hear both sides because Chris Grier the GM (who is also black). Supposedly had a horrible relationship with Flores. Flores wanted to trade for Watson and Grier wanted to keep Tua who he drafted.

Flores reportedly wanted more power than Grier and that is when he got fired. I don't see why they would keep Flores for 2 years after he "disobeyed" there instructions to tank. Anything is possible though.

But to make that claim I would hope Flores has more evidence then hearsay.

Being Black means nothing to me. Blacks hate on their own as well. The odds are that Grier is a yes man anyway. See the problem here is always Flores, and not the other people. Their relationship sucked more than Likley cause Grier sucked and flores would not do the dumb **** being asked of him. Coaches and GMs disagreeing is nothing new. Its much deeper than that here and its obvious to tme


Flores has proven his integrity is much higher than the people accusing him of ****. Dude is risking his lively hood here. **** Grier! he dont get no pass cause he black from me.

Its always Flores "reportedly" did this or wanted that. I dont trust any of it. Flores was given a raw deal in Miami from the BEGINNING

[TerrenceClarke]

Shannon Sharpe made a Good point that Poles was not even allowed to Hire Eric Beniemny in Chicago whom he knows as well....

They would not allow a black GM black Coach combo


Josh McDaniels is Allowed to Bring his College roommate and life long friend with him to Las Vegas as the GM.

But Byron Leftwich tries to bring Wilson along with him in Jacksonville and they Like......

and we havent heard schit on that front since he made that request...

[blueNorange]

every anti flores tweet is fake
every pro flores tweet is true

el oh el

[mpharris36]

So Flores basically says the downfall of their relationship with the Dolphins management was that he would not play ball and throw games, and they resented him.... "how dare this N word not follow our instructions"..... Hmmmmm.

Yet, he is painted as being difficult just because he is. And this is who Schoen was supposed to trust had no Bias..




Fuuccck the Dolphins FO and Owner.

To be fair we need to hear both sides because Chris Grier the GM (who is also black). Supposedly had a horrible relationship with Flores. Flores wanted to trade for Watson and Grier wanted to keep Tua who he drafted.

Flores reportedly wanted more power than Grier and that is when he got fired. I don't see why they would keep Flores for 2 years after he "disobeyed" there instructions to tank. Anything is possible though.

But to make that claim I would hope Flores has more evidence then hearsay.

Being Black means nothing to me. Blacks hate on their own as well. The odds are that Grier is a yes man anyway. See the problem here is always Flores, and not the other people. Their relationship sucked more than Likley cause Grier sucked and flores would not do the dumb **** being asked of him. Coaches and GMs disagreeing is nothing new. Its much deeper than that here and its obvious to tme


Flores has proven his integrity is much higher than the people accusing him of ****. Dude is risking his lively hood here. **** Grier! he dont get no pass cause he black from me.

Its always Flores "reportedly" did this or wanted that. I dont trust any of it. Flores was given a raw deal in Miami from the BEGINNING

I am not saying Grier gets a pass. I'm saying there are two sides to every story. If Flores has evidence that he was wrongly fired that will come out in court and the evidence should point to that.

I don't think you addressed that video with Josina Anderson where Omar Kelly was the first to speak who covers the dolphins and said from all his reporting he believes the firing of Brian Flores was just and legit for multiple reasons. I think that is important to discuss...unless you believe Kelly is also not telling the truth or he has bad reporting.

[blueNorange]

TC is arguing against ghosts, nobody is disagreeing with him.

[DOT]

But Byron Leftwich tries to bring Wilson along with him in Jacksonville and they Like......

and we havent heard schit on that front since he made that request...

This one's just us being an absolute clown show of an organization

Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence

Shad just sucks, and Baalke is a snake whispering in his ear

Allegedly, Shad doesn't want the entire FO to be rookies, which is a somewhat valid concern, so he's trying to bring in Spielman from the Vikings into an executive role (not as GM, likely EVP). Whether he wants him to work with Baalke or as a veteran presence for Leftwich/Wilson is unclear at this point

But the whole thing is just a sh*t show cause Shad never cleans house.

[mpharris36]

TC is arguing against ghosts, nobody is disagreeing with him.

there is a macro issue with the NFL which I completely understand and acknowledge.

The Flores firing in Miami seemed less about results and more about his poor relationships. Ben Mcadoo was also fired and made the playoffs in one of his two years with the team. He was fired for his debacle handling of the Eli Manning situation. Sometimes coaches get fired beyond the results on the field.

And the Giants I believe in this case had a sound process because they ultimately let the GM pick his coach. Which we have all been asking for. Whether Schoen/Daboll work out only time will tell but I can't fault Schoen for wanting to have a relationship with his coach.

[mpharris36]

But Byron Leftwich tries to bring Wilson along with him in Jacksonville and they Like......

and we havent heard schit on that front since he made that request...

This one's just us being an absolute clown show of an organization

Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence

Shad just sucks, and Baalke is a snake whispering in his ear

Allegedly, Shad doesn't want the entire FO to be rookies, which is a somewhat valid concern, so he's trying to bring in Spielman from the Vikings into an executive role (not as GM, likely EVP). Whether he wants him to work with Baalke or as a veteran presence for Leftwich/Wilson is unclear at this point

But the whole thing is just a sh*t show cause Shad never cleans house.

I don't blame Leftwich for being hesitant either to go into a coaching job he has concerns about the GM situation too because sometimes you only get one shot at this. But to your point I don't think its specifically race related that Leftwich doesn't get to bring his own GM. It just seems like you said the Jags have bad ownership.

Regarding the Bears situation. From the outright the bears said they were handling there GM/HC interviews separate. They even mentioned they would both report to different people. So whoever got the Bears GM job wasn't going to have say in the bears HC. The owner made that clear from the start. I don't necessarily agree with that approach but that was there belief to have to separate searches.

[SelbyCobra]

From my perspective, the whole thing about systemic racism in white power structures is that, even when they claim to support change, the second the spotlight is turned on them they claim "oh, but not me" and proceed break down their actions into the minutiae in order to prove that "it's definitely real, but not HERE."

That's really the whole point of the system. If you dissect it into small enough, isolated pieces everything can look innocent and people can feel absolved in their actions, their earnings, their workplace, their favorite team, etc. Ross, Mara, et al aren't out here saying, "we'd never hire a n****r" to a black coach's face while laughing and holding a scotch and cigar. For me, the bigger picture tells an undeniable story. Why does this keep happening, yet when pressed there's always "reasons"?

[TerrenceClarke]

To be fair we need to hear both sides because Chris Grier the GM (who is also black). Supposedly had a horrible relationship with Flores. Flores wanted to trade for Watson and Grier wanted to keep Tua who he drafted.

Flores reportedly wanted more power than Grier and that is when he got fired. I don't see why they would keep Flores for 2 years after he "disobeyed" there instructions to tank. Anything is possible though.

But to make that claim I would hope Flores has more evidence then hearsay.

Being Black means nothing to me. Blacks hate on their own as well. The odds are that Grier is a yes man anyway. See the problem here is always Flores, and not the other people. Their relationship sucked more than Likley cause Grier sucked and flores would not do the dumb **** being asked of him. Coaches and GMs disagreeing is nothing new. Its much deeper than that here and its obvious to tme


Flores has proven his integrity is much higher than the people accusing him of ****. Dude is risking his lively hood here. **** Grier! he dont get no pass cause he black from me.

Its always Flores "reportedly" did this or wanted that. I dont trust any of it. Flores was given a raw deal in Miami from the BEGINNING

I am not saying Grier gets a pass. I'm saying there are two sides to every story. If Flores has evidence that he was wrongly fired that will come out in court and the evidence should point to that.

I don't think you addressed that video with Josina Anderson where Omar Kelly was the first to speak who covers the dolphins and said from all his reporting he believes the firing of Brian Flores was just and legit for multiple reasons. I think that is important to discuss...unless you believe Kelly is also not telling the truth or he has bad reporting.

I did not get a chance to watch, it was late last night and when I saw the video was like 40 mins I said I would watch it later.

[DOT]

I don't blame Leftwich for being hesitant either to go into a coaching job he has concerns about the GM situation too because sometimes you only get one shot at this. But to your point I don't think its specifically race related that Leftwich doesn't get to bring his own GM. It just seems like you said the Jags have bad ownership.

Well, it's not just him

Basically everyone we've talked to has said they don't want to work with Baalke

Which is causing a bit of a kerfuffle, cause Shad doesn't want to fire him, and Baalke is trying desperately to find someone who will work with him. So we may be interviewing the Rams' OC cause he'd work with Baalke, but because we're a sh*t show, we didn't interview him when we could, so we can't interview him now until after the Super Bowl

It's such a clear case of Shad needing to just axe the guy, but he won't. He's even said he doesn't want to because he "doesn't feel like" doing a GM search

Which is just ridiculous, but it goes to show why we've only had 1 winning season in the decade since he's taken over. 1 season with more than 6 wins, even.